tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post1113484645433579916..comments2017-05-22T10:32:30.313-07:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Winter Math ThreadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-39930770347064247632017-02-10T11:39:05.578-08:002017-02-10T11:39:05.578-08:00If one follows the basic path laid out at this poi...<i>If one follows the basic path laid out at this point for Cascadia kids, i.e. Math 8 in 6th grade, then calculus would not be offered in 10th grade. They would take calculus in 11th grade.</i><br /><br />It is not that calculus is not <b>offered</b> in 10th grade. Math is distinct from highly capable after elementary. There is not a perceived flaw in the HCC math curriculum because there is no HCC math curriculum. Cascadia does not default to or guarantee the most advanced math available in high school. Students in the Cascadia cohort may be synchronized leaving elementary, but you should enroll your child in the next course in sequence based on the placement guidelines for aptitude/prerequisites. Some students are appropriately placed in algebra, some in Math 8 and some in neither.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-36961708971885438772017-02-10T11:36:12.041-08:002017-02-10T11:36:12.041-08:00@ Confused, I'm still not sure I understand yo...@ Confused, I'm still not sure I understand your concern about jumping ahead now to avoid being slowed down later, but maybe it will help to explain that we don't have a special gifted math track in high school, if that was what you were thinking. Nor do we have a different HCC math curriculum--HCC students take the same math classes as most everyone else, just often on an accelerated schedule compared to what's typical (with the degree of acceleration dependent on individual students, regardless of HC status). While there are flaws in the curriculum, that's not an HCC-specific issue. <br /><br />Our district DOES tend to slow down gifted offerings in high school, but that's more true in humanities than math. As I understand it, math is one of the few areas in which students can access more advanced classes when ready for more, since the progression is pretty standard. That doesn't mean the classes themselves are geared toward HC students, though--so they may move at a slower pace than HC students would like, and/or they may not go into sufficient depth. That's why I suggested looking into other options or supplementation if acquiring a strong math foundation is important to you or your child. Getting A's on SPS math classes isn't always a great indicator of math learning. I know of several students who have taken different online programs after doing well in the SPS version of a class only to find that they learned so much more in the "review" class. There are some great math teachers out there in SPS, to be sure, but overall, math does not seem to be a strength.<br /><br />unclearAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64998200340396422482017-02-10T11:13:43.258-08:002017-02-10T11:13:43.258-08:00@Unclear, I also thought that perhaps the early pu...@Unclear, I also thought that perhaps the early push ahead to algebra was coming from a perceived flaw in the HCC curriculum. Other school districts sometimes slow down gifted math offerings in high school with an unnecessary review class for a year -- and leave kids languishing with repeat material, even when the kids are ready for more. I wanted to make sure that was not the situation here. Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-172859289323671172017-02-10T11:04:38.530-08:002017-02-10T11:04:38.530-08:00@Unclear, I wasn't sure what the future possib...@Unclear, I wasn't sure what the future possibilities were for high school math and what the right path was for my child, hence the questions. Not everyone who comes to this page has memorized every angle of the Seattle high school math curriculum.<br />Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-61512272842907896512017-02-10T10:06:00.702-08:002017-02-10T10:06:00.702-08:00@ Confused, you mean missing out on the opportunit...@ Confused, you mean missing out on the opportunity to take two full years of AP Calculus and a year of AP Stats? I don't know that accelerating a 6th grader who isn't passionate about math in order to keep open the option of taking three years of AP math in high school makes a lot of sense. If, as they grow up, they are determined to move faster, there are always other options for acceleration (e.g., summer programs). <br /><br />The basic path you laid out for HCC elementary kids positions them to take two years of calculus in high school if they want, or a year of calculus and a year of stats. That's plenty enough for most kids--even HC kids--unless they really love math. <br /><br />I don't think the "right path" is based on what they can or can't take later, but rather what seems the best fit for the student now. Accelerating students more than they are ready for can actually have the reverse effect, creating knowledge gaps that lead them to dislike math later on because they don't feel good at it. <br /><br />Actually, if you're really concerned about providing the best math foundation for high school and college success, my primary recommendation would be to homeschool math or provide plenty of supplementary instruction along the way. The SPS math curriculum is very weak, and while your student may sail through middle and high school with straight As in math, there's a good chance they won't have a deep understanding of the topics. If your student were to take the "basic" Cascadia path but do a lot of math learning on the side, they'd likely be way better off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-78651028162016535882017-02-09T20:37:53.398-08:002017-02-09T20:37:53.398-08:00Hi, Unclear.
Other reasons for jumping ahead on t...Hi, Unclear.<br /><br />Other reasons for jumping ahead on the track could include, perhaps, the possibility of missing out on some math opportunities later in high school because of a later start in algebra. <br /><br />I'm trying to figure out the right path and asking questions about why people are choosing what they choose for their kids. <br /><br />If one follows the basic path laid out at this point for Cascadia kids, i.e. Math 8 in 6th grade, then calculus would not be offered in 10th grade. They would take calculus in 11th grade.Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-66047129584600869112017-02-09T16:36:12.438-08:002017-02-09T16:36:12.438-08:00@ Confused, why do you say calculus isn't offe...@ Confused, why do you say calculus isn't offered in 10th? Math isn't part of HCC after elementary grades, it's just by ability/placement/prerequisites. HCC 6th graders come from a variety of backgrounds--some come from HCC elementary and may be 2 yrs ahead, some come from a school that had Spectrum or ALOs that were a year ahead, some come from schools that offered no acceleration at all, and some come from homeschooling or tutoring situations that may place them three or more years ahead. It's a mixed bag, so the "two years ahead" belief doesn't really apply. (It's also no longer a part of the district's description of HCC. HCC elementary may work 2 yrs ahead, but that's not necessarily the case in middle school. HCC students are slowly decelerated such that they start high school in fairly similar position and classes to many non-HCC students.)<br /><br />As to reasons for pursuing Algebra 1 in 6th grade, yes, it would be for strong math students who had already covered most of the material up to that point, either in school or out. I'm not sure I understand what you might be getting at re: other reasons to pursue such acceleration. <br /><br />unclearAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-31502007398850623852017-02-09T13:09:10.531-08:002017-02-09T13:09:10.531-08:00Any high school that teaches Calculus (which is st...Any high school that teaches Calculus (which is still not the case in the majority of schools) has to offer some form of acceleration or doubling up of math classes.<br /><br />The standard sequence is<br /><br />9th alg 1<br />10th geometry<br />11th alg 2<br />12th precalc or stats<br /><br />So 12th grade calculus usually represents accelerating alg to 8th grade. The normal HCC trajectory is 7th Algebra which allows Calculus in 11th.<br /><br />In other words, 10th grade calculus represents a 2 year acceleration of an already accelerated time line.<br /><br />http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/articles/calculus-trap is a good read on the subject.<br />Benjamin Leishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-58523382025017915422017-02-09T11:55:05.078-08:002017-02-09T11:55:05.078-08:00Math 8 and Algebra 1 have a good deal of overlap. ...Math 8 and Algebra 1 have a good deal of overlap. If a student is ready for Algebra 1, and <i>wanting</i> to leap ahead, then Algebra 1 is the next logical class. If SPS offered a truly rigorous Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence (with more comprehensive texts than the <i>Discovering</i> series) I wonder if fewer students would consider further acceleration. Once accelerated, it is hard to slow down, and you don't know if high school will offer enough classes. The high school sequence would be Precalculus, AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, AP Stats. A number of students are taking Calculus in 10th, or even in 9th. The IB math pathway actually offers enough math for a student taking Calculus in 9th. 12th grade Calculus is a 1-yr ahead pathway (Algebra in 8th, then Geometry, Precalculus), so Calculus in 10th is a 3-yr ahead pathway. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12176432581821923352017-02-09T09:44:20.565-08:002017-02-09T09:44:20.565-08:00Another question: What are parents' reasons fo...Another question: What are parents' reasons for pursuing algebra in sixth grade instead of Math 8? <br /><br />Is it because of a need for more advanced math for very mathy kids? <br /><br />Or is there a flaw in the curriculum that slows down all the HCC kids? I'm surprised that calculus is not being taught in tenth grade, for instance. Twelfth grade calculus seems to be a staple at most schools, so I'd expect HCC kids would study calculus in tenth grade if they are truly working two years ahead. Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-84581398712670504962017-02-08T21:25:34.066-08:002017-02-08T21:25:34.066-08:00My kid was placed into Algebra 1 in 6th under the ...My kid was placed into Algebra 1 in 6th under the recommendation of her teacher at Cascadia and test scores. The teacher told us in the fall that some of the kids in each class would be doing 7th and 8th grade math during 5th grade. Now, she's in a mixed classroom with 6th and 7th graders and doing well. They can retake any test to improve their grade. My kid is naturally strong at math but has zero interest in additional math activities like Kahn or competitions. No extra work in summers. I do worry about burnout in high school or college.<br /><br />Plus minus to algebra 1 in 6thAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-60971108096117170932017-02-08T11:26:45.606-08:002017-02-08T11:26:45.606-08:00
Can anyone share details on the HCC math pathway ...<br />Can anyone share details on the HCC math pathway at JAMS? We were on the school tour last night but never made it to the math room. <br /><br />Under what circumstances can HCC kids enroll in algebra in sixth grade? Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-67264626771700492342017-02-04T13:07:14.412-08:002017-02-04T13:07:14.412-08:00I added an interesting article link to the top on ...I added an interesting article link to the top on the subject of why STEM majors defect in college.Benjamin Leishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-17045325155666992992017-02-03T11:11:01.226-08:002017-02-03T11:11:01.226-08:00Yes, she filled out the form to request a transfer...Yes, she filled out the form to request a transfer back to her old class and turned it in to her counselor yesterday, no response yet. I also emailed the principal as well and haven't heard back yet to my specific emailed question. All we have is the generic welcome to semester 2 email from the principal to all families that says: "Other classes may also change as we balance and reconstitute classes to maximize learning. Students will be able to see their counselor immediately if they are missing a class. Otherwise, no changes are made the first week, and then only if space allows and all teachers agree. Counselors have spent many, many hours on these schedules. If your student expresses angst about a schedule change, listen and remind them that changes have positives. For some it means moving from a class of 30 to a class of 23, and that's good."<br /><br />-- Parent of WMS 7th graderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-77380828838030022702017-02-03T08:28:20.514-08:002017-02-03T08:28:20.514-08:00Might just be a random mistake. Has your daughter ...Might just be a random mistake. Has your daughter gone to the counseling office and asked to be switched back to her Semester 1 teacher?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-82549466440104944192017-02-03T00:41:04.678-08:002017-02-03T00:41:04.678-08:00My HCC 7th grader at Washington Middle School was ...My HCC 7th grader at Washington Middle School was just randomly (no advance notice to us, her, or any reason provided) switched from one Algebra I class to a different Algebra I class with a different teacher for semester 2. Has this happened to anyone else? Only two children in her class were moved. Neither teacher has any idea why she was moved. Nothing else in her schedule changed, and the classes are the same period. The new class is bigger than the old class, so it wasn't to balance class size. Are they allowed to do this? Why would they do this?<br /><br />-- Parent of WMS 7th graderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-91501043730026531302017-01-31T16:38:25.942-08:002017-01-31T16:38:25.942-08:00My son joined HCC as a 2nd grader this year at FPE...My son joined HCC as a 2nd grader this year at FPE. His teacher did a skill review at the beginning of the year, she has been very patient and checks in with him one-on-one regularly, and often gives him extra time to complete his end-of-chapter assessments as he has ramped up to where he's supposed to be. However, it has been an excruciating, uphill battle as he had to leapfrog over three-digit number subtraction and multiplication, and his Envision 4th grade book started the year learning mental math strategies that he and I didn't initially understand (and that has become a running joke between my husband and me).<br /><br />We were told to have him do Dreambox to fill the gaps, which is a program he enjoys playing, but I sometimes wish there was a little more human intervention at school in identifying his gaps and helping him work through them because when he and I work on 3rd grade math things he skipped and then go on to his 4th grade math lesson, we both end up pretty crabby by dinnertime.<br /><br />I like the way the Envision lessons build on each other and the way the lessons get you thinking about how to solve the problem, but verdict is still out as to whether it's better, the same, or worse than Math in Focus for my son.tdubnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86509125846458357982017-01-30T19:51:24.398-08:002017-01-30T19:51:24.398-08:00Oh I'm wrong. It's Envision 6th!
WestOh I'm wrong. It's Envision 6th!<br />WestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-22761775499826540152017-01-29T20:43:18.050-08:002017-01-29T20:43:18.050-08:00A large part of our families decision to move to H...A large part of our families decision to move to HCC early was because it seemed more feasible to cover 1st and 2nd grade math at home than any other 2 years. SPS isn't known for being strong in those number-fluency-and-memorization years anyway. And we could see the writing on the wall for Spectrum which would have been a more gradual ramp up.<br />WestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-36003532592311757492017-01-29T20:27:02.148-08:002017-01-29T20:27:02.148-08:00My kid is doing 6th grade math at Fairmount Park w...My kid is doing 6th grade math at Fairmount Park with Math in Focus. It really is the Wild West in Seattle math education.<br />WestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64605904407672292722017-01-28T13:59:18.731-08:002017-01-28T13:59:18.731-08:00In the not too distant past, 1st graders did not j...In the not too distant past, 1st graders did not jump straight to 3rd grade math, as I understand is happening now. First graders started by covering 1st/2nd grade math. They compressed the curriculum so by 5th grade they were doing some 7th grade math and they finished the 7th grade curriculum in 6th grade, along with covering 8th grade material, leading to Algebra 1 in 7th. If there is a high rate of interventions, I wonder how much of it has to do with gaps created by jumping too far ahead in 1st grade. Do teachers do a skill review at the start of each school year so new students have a chance to fill any gaps? A high rate of interventions is a sign something needs fixing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-33128030764420696552017-01-28T12:47:21.564-08:002017-01-28T12:47:21.564-08:00Yes the elementary schools are using different cur...Yes the elementary schools are using different curricula. My impression is that Cascadia also has an equally high rate of interventions as Fairmount Park and its using Math in Focus + Glencoe.<br />Benjamin Leishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-35832015070068350752017-01-27T11:35:38.633-08:002017-01-27T11:35:38.633-08:00Are Cascadia, Fairmount Park, and TM all using dif...Are Cascadia, Fairmount Park, and TM all using different combinations of math materials?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86974227800845853682017-01-27T09:44:46.884-08:002017-01-27T09:44:46.884-08:00Fairmount Park is using Envision for grades 1-5 ma...Fairmount Park is using Envision for grades 1-5 math and 25% of students are failing (requiring interventions). They switch to Math in Focus for 6th and 7th grade with no background in Singapore methods.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-91705264558420020842017-01-26T19:19:11.126-08:002017-01-26T19:19:11.126-08:00We have been quite unhappy with Glencoe for 4th an...We have been quite unhappy with Glencoe for 4th and 5th grade. It doesn't mesh well with the Singapore approach used at earlier levels, and don't think it is structured for mastery. It flits superficially from topic to topic without building solid foundations, and it doesn't require or encourage mathematical thinking (it is too interested in algorithmic solution finding). We have a kid who "hates arithmetic but loves mathematics," as she says, but we're not sure if Glencoe really cuts it as preparation for middle school.<br /><br />-RichardRichardnoreply@blogger.com