tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post3449072506613223819..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Open threadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-51248930665005745742013-10-29T13:50:22.662-07:002013-10-29T13:50:22.662-07:00LTO,
I hope that is not the case. Our school is ...LTO, <br /><br />I hope that is not the case. Our school is North Beach, and it is already up in arms in rezoning issues that would leave us in the attendance area even though we are far closer to Viewlands, and send to loyal height the north beach families who live across the street from the school.<br /><br />Our daughter qualified for Spectrum but there is nothing there but walk to math. She is 2e so we are hoping with one on one district testing she will test into app this year. <br /><br />North Beach is a gem of a school. Not the crappy old buildings, though...<br /><br />Jen CAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64162367098186422432013-10-29T12:54:04.678-07:002013-10-29T12:54:04.678-07:00Could Pinehurst fit into Marshall with JAK-8? Just...Could Pinehurst fit into Marshall with JAK-8? Just until Decatur is available. I hope there's a way to save the school - but I also think JAMS needs to start as a 6-8 school next year. Alternatively, could you use portables at JAMS in the interim? Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-89732608930543239462013-10-29T11:39:23.221-07:002013-10-29T11:39:23.221-07:00Despite Superintendent Banda’s above recommendatio...Despite Superintendent Banda’s above recommendation, readers should be very aware that Pinehurst K-8's cause is far from lost, since in recent days 3/7 SPS board directors (Peaslee, Patu, McLaren) have all publicly expressed their desire to keep the program alive if suitable interim and permanent locations can be found; so even now that school actually needs only a viable plan and just one more vote out of the remaining four directors.<br /><br />If John Marshall Middle School is any part of that viable plan, it will also be necessary to cohouse Jane Addams K-8 in portables with Jane Addams MS during construction from 2014-16 as originally recommended in Version 1, not taking up John Marshall MS for the exclusive interim use now recommended in Version 2.<br /><br />Superintendent Banda also notes that Public Hearing # 2 will be held *tonight* at Pinehurst, Tuesday, Oct. 29 at 7:00p.m., and that advance signup to testify is not required.apparentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-34683374980337472502013-10-29T11:36:21.075-07:002013-10-29T11:36:21.075-07:00“Look at what is happening to Pinehurst.” Long Ti...“Look at what is happening to Pinehurst.” Long Time Observer<br /><br />Also because of possible competition for “interim” space in the potential Ham/Lin Annex in the South Wing of Lincoln High School (but what about longer term?).<br /><br />Superintendent Banda’s recommended 3-way split of APP (North) MS beginning in Fall 2014 can also be averted by moving that cohort intact to a reopened John Marshall Middle School on either an interim or permanent basis. Far from competing for space, 952-seat John Marshall MS (852 seats for K-8) is roughly the same size as Hamilton MS and Jane Addams MS, large enough to provide either a temporary or permanent home for *both* APP (North) MS (549 students at Hamilton 2013-14, draft Growth Boundaries Plan Version 2, Slide 18) together with Pinehurst K-8 (156 students 2013-14, draft plan Version 2, Slide 27), and with lots of room to spare for a third SPS option program.<br /><br />Here are the relevant extracts a few days ago from Superintendent Banda’s October 24 letter to the Pinehurst K-8 community:<br /><br />“I recommend that the [Pinehurst K-8] program be closed, unless the south wing of the Lincoln building becomes available [for interim use 2014-16] and an option can be worked out as a result of the meeting with the Thornton Creek community, to allow the Pinehurst program to exist within the Thornton Creek program, without excessive administrative and operational costs [in the vacated Decatur building permanently from 2016]. A supplemental report will be provided after the [Thornton Creek] community meeting.” <br /><br />“With the passage of the BEX IV Levy . . . , the [Pinehurst K-8] building will be demolished in summer 2014, and a new building constructed as the future home of the Jane Addams K-8 program. As a result, a decision must be made to either move the Pinehurst K-8 program or close it.”<br /><br />“The only permanent location identified for the [Pinehurst K-8] program is at the Decatur building, beginning in 2016.” [Superintendent Banda, why not John Marshall Middle School, beginning in 2014?]<br /><br />“The only interim location definitely available for 2014-16 is the Van Asselt building, but this is nearly fifteen miles from Pinehurst. Because the [Pinehurst K-8] program is extremely localized (just 12% of the students live outside the northeast/north areas of the city), it is likely such an interim location [Van Asselt] for even two years would have a significant negative impact on the [Pinehurst K-8] program.” [Superintendent Banda, why not John Marshall Middle School, beginning in 2014?]<br /><br />“Various forms of mergers with the Thornton Creek program [which will move into new ES building on Decatur site] have been explored. All options which utilize a middle school program are either too costly, or are not consistent with the existing Thornton Creek program. Locating the Pinehurst program within the Decatur building [which will be vacated by Thornton Creek ES] but without its own administrative staff is perhaps an option, but would likely still require added administrative staff, such as a head teacher or assistant principal, given the 660 student enrollment already planned for the site. A meeting will be scheduled with the Thornton Creek community to discuss options, to take place prior to November 20.”<br /><br />“My final recommendation to the Board [i.e., to close Pinehurst K-8] is posted on the Pinehurst web site. No decision has been made at this time: the School Board will have the final decision authority. My final recommendation to the School Board will be introduced at the Wednesday, Nov. 6 Board meeting and the School Board’s decision on the final recommendation [i.e., to close Pinehurst K-8] is scheduled to take place at the Nov. 20 Board meeting.”apparentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-45080549321903043042013-10-28T19:48:38.810-07:002013-10-28T19:48:38.810-07:00Jen C,
Beware of small classes and small schools....Jen C,<br /><br />Beware of small classes and small schools. They are targets for closure. Sad but true. Look at what is happening to Pinehurst.<br /><br />Long time observerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-23508449215724227422013-10-27T23:20:14.767-07:002013-10-27T23:20:14.767-07:00Some of the spectrum parent reps on the AL task fo...Some of the spectrum parent reps on the AL task force opposed self contained classrooms due to segregation issue and felt the social cost of such labeling was damaging to children. Now their children are in APP. All very weird given the emotional feelings against self contained spectrum at the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-23085956846397546572013-10-27T23:01:56.405-07:002013-10-27T23:01:56.405-07:00Thanks for the feedback on aviation HS. It's ...Thanks for the feedback on aviation HS. It's been on our radar for sometime now.The competition to get in is going to intensify, especially with the new building. We'll tour, but the selection process is competitive and that's something frankly my child just isn't used to. Might be good to shake up that complacent attitude a bit. It's worth a shot and will still have IBX to fall back on:)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-79654171455777780772013-10-27T14:51:17.252-07:002013-10-27T14:51:17.252-07:00dw,
I did mean an APP PTO - I see that I made a m...dw,<br /><br />I did mean an APP PTO - I see that I made a mistake there. <br /><br />I think that we face that negative attitude all the time now. And we aren't getting the curriculum we were promised. I do think that APP students' needs are further from the needs of general education students and should be addressed seperately. Mostly I'm realizing these are things the district is never going to do. Why shouldn't we do it ourselves? Because you're correct - APP parents as a group do have the resources to fix these problems.<br /><br />Isn't the district providing an appropriate (and different) curriculum to STEM schools?Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12731320290799115592013-10-27T14:26:57.997-07:002013-10-27T14:26:57.997-07:00Yikes, dw. I would argue that is has more to do wi...Yikes, dw. I would argue that is has more to do with the nature of the programs, not the nature of the parents, that has made it difficult for Spectrum/ALO families to stay "engaged". These programs are not focused, not defined, not supported, not concentrated in a single school, and not considered as special or as necessary as APP (as evidenced by your comment). <br /><br />One problem is that there are many, many north-end kids who have Spectrum labels. Many don't need anything different than what is happening in their local school, nor do they get anything different, because it's a meaningless label as it stands. Easy to get, easy to ignore, everyone is happy. So why have it? But just because it's a common label, doesn't mean that what it is supposed to provide is not sorely needed by some. The parent community is just very diluted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-45614658811913396592013-10-27T14:05:42.817-07:002013-10-27T14:05:42.817-07:00Lynn, you mentioned two very different things in t...Lynn, you mentioned two very different things in the same comment and I'm not sure if you intended to conflate them.<br /><br />1) Advanced Learning PTO<br />2) APP PTO<br /><br />I tend to think the former would be ideal, if possible, because the biggest problems with advanced learning in Seattle are system-wide.<br /><br />That said, it has proven to be very difficult to keep enough Spectrum/ALO families engaged in a meaningful way over the long term. In contrast, for whatever reasons, <i>many</i> APP families have proven to be fully engaged in their childrens' educations year after year. No surprise, really, but it's important to remember in light of this kind of suggestion. <br /><br />Some of this is certainly related to the constant pressures the program is under, but there's also just the underlying level of <i>need</i>. The more your kids truly need special services, the more you're going to fight for them, whether it's SpEd, ELL, whatever. The difference is that APP families, in general, either have the means or have made significant sacrifices to have the time available to do so. They are also a very well-educated group, and have the ability to make very strong and compelling arguments. If any of these pieces are lessened or missing, those groups will have a harder time advocating (or even fully understanding their kids' needs).<br /><br />I also think that the general crappy attitude in Seattle towards advanced learning in general would provide a constant pressure on an APP PTO. You know, the "If I can't have it then no one should have it, even if it's a net gain to everyone" attitude.dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-35638254013496160692013-10-27T11:13:06.709-07:002013-10-27T11:13:06.709-07:00I've been thinking about the letter the Seattl...I've been thinking about the letter the Seattle Council PTSA send to the School Board and the Superintendent. There's a Special Ed PTSA. Maybe there should be an Advanced Learning PTSA (or PTO). If the advanced learning office really just manages the testing process, there is a lot of work that isn't getting done. APP parents already contribute a lot of financial resources to their children's schools. Maybe we'd get more value for them if we pooled them and prioritized them as a group. <br /><br />An APP PTO could:<br />Form a group to research and recommend an APP curriculum.<br />Recommend (and possibly provide) continuing education for APP staff.<br />Participate in the hiring team for principals for schools that house APP.<br />Advocate directly with the board and superintendent as needed. <br /><br />The APPAC is offering guidance to the AL taskforces now - but they were set up to mange communication between the district and parents. An APP PTO could set their own agenda, fundraise and apply those funds to things we currently can't influence.<br /><br />What do you think?Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-26497481989337169012013-10-27T10:27:46.638-07:002013-10-27T10:27:46.638-07:00Also following up on the Raisbeck open house. We w...Also following up on the Raisbeck open house. We were very impressed with what we saw. My kiddo was very excited about the prospect of going there. We also plan to apply. <br /><br />In additon to the cons mentioned above, I would add there are no art classes, no music, no PE, and no languages other than Spanish and Japanese. Even with that long list of cons, I would still pick it for him over any of the other high school options out there. It definitely wouldn't be a great choice for everyone. (I have a current grade 9 student, who wasn't impressed with it and wouldn't want to ever go there.)<br /><br />--need a high school (but, think we found one!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-81442693454918228872013-10-27T10:12:41.505-07:002013-10-27T10:12:41.505-07:00Follow up on Raisbeck Aviation open house. Very, v...Follow up on Raisbeck Aviation open house. Very, very impressive. However, this was just the open house to show off the new building. The in-depth curriculum tours for new applicants are 11/7 and 12/5. However, we had tours by a few students all of whom were incredibly articulate. We also got the scoop on math offerings, and I have no doubt that my APP kid would be challenged. Math to BC Calculus and beyond, plus electives in Applied Mathematics that really looked at exciting and practical uses. Unbelievable programming options. Amazing facilities, including a full wind tunnel and machine shop. Robotics team is first NW school team going to nationals. All students get a computer. Some cons: 2/3 boys, 1/3 girls right now, but the girls we met said they love it and social dynamics are good. Also, more applicants every year. Sports: only ultimate frisbee right now. We didn't even ask about music, but I'm guessing that is a con. We'll be at the full tours to find out more about the English/LA offerings, but it was our understanding that they all have an aviation/aerospace bent. Regardless, we saw enough that we're putting in an application. They are available 11/1. I'm guessing it will be a hot ticket, as they have a fancy new building and are getting rave reviews on US News and World Report rankings. Actually, I guess I should say that it was just awful and no one should apply except my son. :)<br /><br />-still deciding (but getting closer!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-22902536020642499632013-10-26T22:38:38.959-07:002013-10-26T22:38:38.959-07:00Sorry, I meant while enrollment is increasing and ...Sorry, I meant while enrollment is increasing and we are facing capacity issues.<br /><br />Jen CAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-31606235157706094942013-10-26T22:35:36.634-07:002013-10-26T22:35:36.634-07:00As far as room in the nw, I am often surprised (ha...As far as room in the nw, I am often surprised (happily) at how small class sizes are at our neighborhood school. I have one in app, but my other is in gen ed and a class of 17. This is great for us, but begs the question; why are there so many seats open when capacity is rising? We are lucky, ut realistically we could take another 50 or 60 kids. Anyone else have this at their scho? We love it, but why are we so lucky?<br /><br />Jen CAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12417208818945704422013-10-26T20:31:48.421-07:002013-10-26T20:31:48.421-07:00First class or last class, too, could be fine. Or ...First class or last class, too, could be fine. Or the classes around lunch, which at that point is most of them, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-50180941917740462332013-10-26T19:07:03.844-07:002013-10-26T19:07:03.844-07:00I'd think you could change the school day temp...I'd think you could change the school day temporarily if necessary. Some school districts double-shift their schools to respond to capacity problems. This wouldn't be nearly as big a change.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-38330866954538404362013-10-26T18:42:13.742-07:002013-10-26T18:42:13.742-07:00I can't wrap my head around the logistics of a...I can't wrap my head around the logistics of an annex at Lincoln. Students only have 5 min for passing. A blocked class only allows for 5 extra minutes, total. The school day is not going to change, so how does it work without losing class time (or homeroom time, which is used for making up work, meeting with teachers, etc.)? The state considers a 50 min class an "instructional hour" to allow for passing and block schedules. You can't have shorter classes and you need start and end times consistent with other schools for transportation purposes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-38120397091573878372013-10-26T17:44:57.432-07:002013-10-26T17:44:57.432-07:00I think the idea would be to give the principal at...I think the idea would be to give the principal at Hamilton access to however many rooms at Lincoln are needed and let her figure out how to use them. Maybe all 8th grade APP LA or Social Studies classes would be held there?<br />The NW would get relief when WP opens and APP moves out of Hamilton - one or more elementary schools would be redirected from Whitman to Hamilton. In the interim, JAMS and Eckstein would not be full. Some Whitman students could take open seats in those schools.<br />I'm just thinking it through - I don't know the north end that well.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-84435627237971429522013-10-26T14:39:30.147-07:002013-10-26T14:39:30.147-07:00@1:18
At least in a Lincoln annex, those kids (wh...@1:18<br /><br />At least in a Lincoln annex, those kids (whether they turn out to be 6th, APP, Lang Imm. whomever...) could do sports, afterschool activities, ski bus, team read volunteering, and all the other things Hamilton kids do. The south east of Lincoln, which is closest to Hamilton includes the band and orchestra rooms, as well as several classrooms. It would be better for HIMS to overflow and sit tight until WP is open rather than throwing the whole north end into upheaval.<br /><br />open earsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-34177858870332366352013-10-26T13:18:42.643-07:002013-10-26T13:18:42.643-07:00I understand and agree with the idea that APP midd...I understand and agree with the idea that APP middle splits in the north end are not good. However, why does it seem pushing for WP is a good idea? Isn't that jsut kicking the can down the road? Capacity is needed for gened in the NW, too, despite a seemingly disproportionate focus on the NE. And when folks talk about an annex at Lincoln for HIMS, do they mean that APP should go there or like a grade at HIMS or what? I know that there are no magical fixes at this point, but a Lincoln annex sounds kind of like a 6th grade roll up to me -- isolating and not comprehensive. <br />hmmm...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-13947310133298216862013-10-26T10:57:20.069-07:002013-10-26T10:57:20.069-07:00Momof2,
Yes - I've noticed that JAMS doesn...Momof2,<br /><br />Yes - I've noticed that JAMS doesn't want APP, Eckstein doesn't want APP, Hamilton wants more room for language immersion. All of north end APP should move to WP when it opens - everyone would be happier. Why isn't the district discussing an annex at Lincoln? And why aren't they coming up with more reasonable projections for middle school APP in the north end?Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-46478664182545358632013-10-26T10:46:23.081-07:002013-10-26T10:46:23.081-07:00Wasn't there discussion last year, probably du...Wasn't there discussion last year, probably during BEX talks, to the effect the John Marshall school cannot be used as a permanent location, due to some sort of new requirements or restrictions that have been enacted since it was mothballed? I seem to recall that the district was able to get around it by using it as an interim site, but that reinstating it as a permanent school likely couldn't happen. Anyone remember that? <br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-66053961832867172402013-10-26T10:23:30.948-07:002013-10-26T10:23:30.948-07:00Momof2,
You got it kind of right. But at Hamilto...Momof2,<br /><br />You got it kind of right. But at Hamilton I don't think all the APP teachers would agree that they are "accepted" yet. I think a more accurate word would be "tolerated".<br /><br />Even the new HIMS principal, who many parents had high hopes for, is apparently of the mindset that any teacher can teach any kids, mixing teachers between APP and GenEd. The previous principal did this as well. Of course there are times when scheduling makes that impossible to avoid, but word is that she is doing at least some of it on purpose, philosophically (though I would like to hear some corroboration of this). <br /><br />This is why Washington State <i>NEEDS</i> a gifted teaching endorsement. Everyone needs to lobby our legislators to support this, as many other states already provide this. There is no other practical way to avoid damaged philosophies.<br /><br />This is now the 5th year of APP in the Hamilton building, and it's still barely tolerated by many. For that matter, it caused angst amongst staff and families back at Washington middle school when it was the entire city-wide middle school for APP. Splitting again is a <i>terrible</i> idea, for so many reasons, whether MS north or ES south.<br />dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-25885818698415385382013-10-26T09:13:19.993-07:002013-10-26T09:13:19.993-07:00I was also at the APP Community meeting this week:...I was also at the APP Community meeting this week:<br /><br />1) One parent remarked that it doesn't make sense to open new APP locations farther south since all the identified APP students in the south already attend Thurgood Marshall. If you open a new elementary with just a few APP students, there is no cohort and the district won't give them their own classes with 5-15 students in them. Voila - no APP at all.<br /><br />2) Regarding opening new APP programs and moving parts of the APP cohort into other schools such as JAMS - it only works with staff and administration support for the concept of APP. I've been in a number of places where staff and administration don't like separate APP classes and that's not fair to anybody. At Hamilton, as some parents remarked, it took a number of years and much staff turnover before the APP community was accepted (and not resented) there. There's been quite a few JAMS community members saying they don't want APP in their school since it will crowd out the neighborhood kids.<br /><br />Momof2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com