tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post3487509141861323679..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Open threadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger107125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-78410996131153478922015-02-09T08:04:13.091-08:002015-02-09T08:04:13.091-08:00Great series of comments here on capacity, facilit...Great series of comments here on capacity, facilities, and where APP is placed. I'm going to open a new thread to discuss it further, "<a href="http://discussapp.blogspot.com/2015/02/capacity-and-facilities.html" rel="nofollow">Capacity and facilities</a>".Greg Lindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216403000599463072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-16450481297603521872015-02-08T22:49:02.183-08:002015-02-08T22:49:02.183-08:00ur blowing smoke, wp
10 kids going back toa n ele...ur blowing smoke, wp<br /><br />10 kids going back toa n elementary won't "break"it. 10 kids could show up from Missouri any day of the week.<br /><br />I dunno, but it looks like you might be right about a 3 SD cut-off. That, of course is 145 IQ, or .13% of the general population. Do you really think the staff will keep waiting or just lance this boil? Again, I dunno.<br /><br />Your money argument is not entirely accurate. Transportation, like from WS to TM or WMS, not free.<br />Also, are there not be classrooms under capacity at a school like WMS due the presence of the corhorted students? <br /><br />Furthermore, dealing with a burgeoning program that guarantees seats in two or more schools, conceivably creates worse boundary issues, as seen just this year.<br /><br />And to be honest your seeming concession to the SpEd community rings hollow. AL designated students are also special needs students and deserve equal intensity of instruction at their local school as much as any other students, unless a self-contained environment is deemed essential.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-23667393918027377292015-02-08T17:39:23.678-08:002015-02-08T17:39:23.678-08:00Preschool is going into Decatur - 'old' Th...Preschool is going into Decatur - 'old' Thornton Creek building when it is finally freed up -- but it's capacity will be drastically reduced because the 10 portables will have to go away (City zoning law re - lot coverage - and you can bet those neighbors will be watching this like a hawk. You know there's a law suit, right? Those are organized and very savy people and there's no way SSD will accidentally be able to leave/install portables on that property beyond what is legally allowed).<br /><br />Besides, where Pinehurst really belongs? Is Pinehurst! There is no reason they shouldnt be returned to their building when it is finnished. They are compatible with the Jane Addams K8 aka Hazel Wolf as they are both k8s filled by option choice enrollment from the same area. The folks who took their long standing building but flat out rejected having the Pinehurst kids be in the new Pinehurst building -- even though they are both k8s who draw their students from the Pinehurst neighborhood. Nice, huh? Jane Addams k8 also got the heads up about sharing an interim building with the Pinehurst k8 while the new Pinehurst building was being built, and JAk8 used that insider heads up info to grab testimony spots to plead with the Directs to NOT let that program into where they wanted to be -- with a straight face, they said they were incompatible (huh?). So, that's why Pinehurst ended up disenfranchised out of their building and why they couldn't even go in the Marshall building. So they ended up 5 miles away, instead of 3 miles like their fellow Pinehurst JAk8 neighbors. <br /><br />How this lands? Who knows. But, what we all know is no one wants their neighborhood attendance area school messed with -- let alone carved up to take in some other program, that will cause more sibling splits if boundries have to shrink. Ask Eckstein how they felt when Peaslee attempted to put APP in it. Lead balloon. Staff quickly dumped that plan, after enraging a lot of neighborhood folks. Again, the idea is to EXPORT 'volunteers' from the most dense/over crowded parts of town (eg. The NE and NW) and land them in the least dense parts that have capacity -- WP). Anything else will have a domino affect on everyone else. <br /><br />Who here remembers Harium telling people they were going to tear down old Thornton creek building once the new one was built? Ha-ha!!! That was the Party Line from Ms. McEvoy. <br /><br />It would not be surprising to me if a levy fails. There may just be enough stupidity and poor planning and insensitive communication to make enough voters turn off and go for a first-attempt levy fail (but vote yes when it's brought back within 6 months).<br /><br />wpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-6643528041897210532015-02-08T08:50:40.459-08:002015-02-08T08:50:40.459-08:00I think the current Thornton Creek building will c...I think the current Thornton Creek building will come into play. There were around 275 students from the Eckstein attendance area at Lincoln last year. TC has about 400 students - so all of the Eckstein and JAMS HCC elementary students would fit there.<br /><br />That would leave room for Licton Springs K-8 in the WP elementary building - which makes more sense than the middle school to me.<br /><br />This change could be made without redrawing boundary lines. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-48165419021649567512015-02-08T08:43:29.820-08:002015-02-08T08:43:29.820-08:00Enrollment projections for JAMS next year are arou...Enrollment projections for JAMS next year are around 900. Summer renovations will add maybe 7 classroom spaces, though 4 of those are portables. Yes, portables. Portables are currently being used for gym changing rooms and teacher space until building locker rooms are renovated. Two science labs will be created and orchestra will get a dedicated classroom (the current classroom is the auditorium stage). The stage will still be included in the available classroom spaces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-29081156206526667212015-02-08T08:20:08.330-08:002015-02-08T08:20:08.330-08:00They'll all go to WP for sure -- because ther...They'll all go to WP for sure -- because there is no where else to put them (all other campuses are completely saturated) and because they can put portables on WP both for elementary school and middle school.<br /><br />They may try again to close Pinehurst k8. They've tried for 10 years. It is now demoted from a school to a program (!), that way it can be 'place anywhere', or simply left at Lincoln. And yes, it's enrollment shrank again, from 150 last year to 110 this year (and that enrollment number was achieved by the firceable assignment of SpEd students to it thus year -- which the SpEd community then ended up fighting). Giving up a wing of the WP middle school to elementary children in a comprehensive middle school that is suppose to relieve Hamilton (that is broken, capacity-wise) and Whitman ( with it's 14 portables) was the most illogical, irrational, expensive and frankly bone-headed thing the Peaslee Biard has ever done. I am shocked Directir Carr would go along with it. Clearly, WP middle school will retain the American Indian focus as it should because of the history of the site. Ironically, by honoring and embracing that culture and integrating that into the whole middle school, instead of ghettoizing it into a program of merely 100 kids isolated into one wing will actually be a good thing for supporting more student learning, not less. <br /><br />Facilities planning is a mess - due to politics and stupidity. The JSCEE crowd went along dutifully with the 'Emperor Has No Clothes' shinanigans for a decade, and the chickens have come home ro roost. And kids pay the price. Just asks the students about how awful Eckstein was last year with 16 portables, or how harmful the shanty town is to the Schmitz Park kids. And who exactly was fired for allowing Schmitz Park to tip over and drown in 18 portables????? NO ONE!!!<br /><br />So yes, HCC is the relief valve for everyone else to stay in their beloved schools, so don't hate on them as they exit. It's why we get to stay where we are. And, WP, like the rest of the north, will be carpet bombed with portables. It is already planned out that way. <br /><br />It's not hard to predict the future when there are absolutely no real choices left. Even if the Board/Super wanted to break HCC, it would come at the expense at absolutely every other student and family in the district, and for what? Can you imagine, if this district, right after they just redid boundaries for everyone everywhere (more split siblings at the edges of those maps), turned around under a temporary new Super (3 years to me amounts to a care-taker government) and did the whole thing again? Just to shimmy in 60 more students here, 50 there, all while ignoring SpEd?<br /><br />That would probly result in a full scale revolt. But hey, the district would ignor that too, if history is correct. (those classrooms with bathrooms in middle school WP will make great middle school SpEd rooms - possibly for medically fragile middle schoolers? So, in then end, the rooms won't go to waste).<br /><br />WPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-51156442692175771922015-02-08T07:24:53.839-08:002015-02-08T07:24:53.839-08:00Thank you EV!
Anyone willing to gaze into their c...Thank you EV!<br /><br />Anyone willing to gaze into their crystal ball and completely speculate about what the district will do with HCC in the north when the program is too big for WP? Any wild guesses about splits and locations? What would you do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-40894711421777778332015-02-08T00:23:32.366-08:002015-02-08T00:23:32.366-08:00That's the most incredible advantage - FOR THE...That's the most incredible advantage - FOR THE DISTRICT - of the APP: it allows them to deal with regions that have the worst mismatch between facility capacity and #s of resident students!<br /><br />By getting 'volunteers' to <i>leave</i> their attendance area schools, they actually <i>save</i> those schools from cracking!<br /><br />In the North, if it wasn't for Lincoln, Viewridge, Bryant, Laurelhurst and Wedgwood would all be broken. Its not like VR kids could go over to John Rogers, it is beyond full too! In the NW, Loyal Heights, Adams, Whittier, and West Woodland would all be put into emergency mitigation. <br /><br />As for middle school, if not for APP in Jane Addams, Hamilton would have broken - Eckstein would be at risk too.<br /><br />Shipping volunteer kids <i>out</i> of West Seattle to Thurgood Marshall has saved WS k5s from breaking (although Schmitz Park is in a state of emergency right now). <br /><br />And high school north, with Roosevelt at over 1,700, Hale and Ballard completely full, and Ingraham full too, Garfield has prevented the north from utter failure. That's why high school enrollment was fudged this year. The district started subtracting parts of a student day for running start, the district is looking for loose change in the couch pillows in order to make it all work. <br /><br />HCC is the only tool the district has to move students out of overcrowded facilities to remote ones, & has saved the district millions. The district historically has been brutal to SpEd, landing it in the least desirable seats because that was the only place space was available. But they can't do that to SpEd anymore. Bryant <i>should</i> have a great SpEd program, hopefully it will establish one. Better to bring those students home first before you start in with HCC students. SpEd has been kicked around far too long, & those kids should NOT be subject to longer bus rides than absolutely necessary. Which again points to why it is a real Hail Mary to scoot out volunteers from those overpopulated areas. <br /><br />APP also generates operating $$ for the district: every child comes with a BEA (state funded Basic Education Allocation), but some kids 'cost' more than the dollars they generate. HCC kids are the cheapest to educate (they do not, contrary to popular belief, get <i>anything</i> more or better or different - no better trained teachers, or better curriculum or textbooks, or a better student-teacher ratio, or more money per pupil- natta! So, having more of them in the system means you can redistribute their dollars elsewhere where the need is greatest. Go ahead and attack, but, you want more of them so you can do more with their dollars to boost wherever the need is greatest. If the kids don't come into the public system, then, their money doesn't either.<br /><br />So for all the vitriol about the program, it helps the district keep space where it needs it the most, saves capital dollars, and, generates operational dollars. <br /><br />At the end of the day, you either believe that all kids should get to go to school and learn something, or you don't. 'Differentiation' to target those who preform 3 standard deviations above the norm never works. And that does not address the social and emotional needs of learners 3 standard deviations away from the mean.<br /><br />evAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-78827973977254498372015-02-07T20:23:22.215-08:002015-02-07T20:23:22.215-08:00The district projects there will be 1,230 more hig...The district projects there will be 1,230 more high school students than seats in the north end in 2022. This is after Lincoln reopens and the projections assume that HCC students will continue to attend Garfield and Ingraham.<br /><br />You're absolutely right that the district can't magically make Garfield's building any larger. Given that north end high schools will have to be on either split shifts or year-round schedules without those HCC kids, do you really think moving them north of the ship canal will be the solution?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-39599027362113125492015-02-07T16:20:50.181-08:002015-02-07T16:20:50.181-08:00It's not about a vendetta against our gifted k...It's not about a vendetta against our gifted kids, nor an uncaring SPS and hateful board members. Currently NO SPS abuilding is big enough to guarantee a seat for the ever-expanding gifted population. What's the pop at Lincoln HCC now? 700+ and growing yearly because we're all geniuses who have genius children in Seattle? If all HCC 2nd-5th graders were 8th graders now, they wouldn't ALL fit into Garfield unless the district kicks out all the OTHER kids: Sped, ELL, neighborhood kids. What would happen if SPS kicks out all other kids to guarantee HCC kids a seat at the best school in the district? My crystal ball tells me they'd be facing a gazillion lawsuits AND will lose ALL, and would have to sell all the buildings to pay the lawsuits. What do the rest of you predict?<br />So either figure out how to reduce the HCC program's runaway growth, or brainstorm some other solutions. Complaining about SPS' and Board's purported hatred against our kids accomplishes NOTHING. Since so far no one is genius enough to change the LAWS OF PHYSICS and turns Garfield into the ever-growing gobstopper of buildings, yes, the guaranteed seat at Garfield will go away once the huge cohorts hit 9th grade. <br />We should write to Prez O, maybe he has a machine, Beck et al. say he has a weather machine & is causing all the climate change disasters to victimize REAL Americans. If O can control the weather, making buildings grow would be a snap.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86489904018894671842015-02-07T14:43:07.628-08:002015-02-07T14:43:07.628-08:00The Friday Memo has a message about Advanced Learn...The Friday Memo has a message about Advanced Learning and applications/open enrollment. <br /><br /><i>...the majority of families will not know eligibility results in time for the Open Enrollment for School Choice deadline (March 6th), but families should still submit a School Choice Form on time, even if they haven’t yet been notified of Highly Capable eligibility. <b>Eligible students are guaranteed a seat in the Highly Capable Cohort if the School Choice Form is submitted.</b></i> [bold added]<br /><br /><i>Complete the form assuming your child is eligible for the program you desire.<br /><br />Step 1: If you are expecting your child to be eligible for Highly Capable (HC) services, be sure to enter your first choice school on the form as if he/she IS eligible for HC services. If you are expecting your child to be eligible for Spectrum programs,<br />continue to Step 2.<br /><br />Step 2: Enter your next choice (or choices) as if your child was NOT found eligible for HC, but WAS found eligible for Spectrum.<br /><br />Step 3: Enter any subsequent choices/Option Schools as if your child was NOT found eligible for HC and was NOT found eligible for Spectrum. If your child currently attends an Option School, please enter it as a choice.</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86883781544939405682015-02-07T12:50:01.052-08:002015-02-07T12:50:01.052-08:00McClure has changed the way they are doing math pl...McClure has changed the way they are doing math placement so check into that. The letter about the spectrum change also discussed the math change. They were finding that kids who scored well enough on the MAP didn't have enough of the foundational elements to support them in Algebra 1. So now they put kids in math based on the math they just took. I think you might be able to present evidence or argue for a placement test to show those elements are in place, but I wouldn't bet on it. My kid was in the Algebra class and most of the 6th graders struggled. If you want your kid in Algebra, better cover that pre-Algebra stuff...doesn't matter how bright they are if they haven't had that. Then if you are at McClure, figure out if you can get them to let you prove readiness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-85124592857434460502015-02-07T11:31:21.176-08:002015-02-07T11:31:21.176-08:00http://www.jamsptsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06...http://www.jamsptsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Math-Placement-Recommendation.pdf<br /><br />Math in middle school is not an HCC/APP 'course'. <br /><br />To go into Algebra 1 in 6th grade, you need a 5th grade math MAP score of at least 250. And, introduced last year, you also need a 4th grade MSP of 525.<br /><br />If you get one of those but not both, there is suppose to be a tie breaker test the District gives, some time in April. Students who hit the 4th grade bench mark score in their math MSP will write this test too.<br /><br />5th grade MAP score is still being used this year. Who knows what will be used <i>next</i> year for the math achievement standardize test in the future. That future test cut score for Algebra 1 entrance has not yet been established. <br /><br />The frustrating part? The second criteria, the 4th grade MSP, was added 'just because'. All students who went to Algrebra 1 based on their 250 math MAP did really well in that course, so why they added a 4th grade component is silly. Just more paperwork, with no added value. Maybe it was a way for them to ration rigor, as appears to be the District's MO. <br /><br />Pounder FanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-42138138148548659882015-02-07T11:05:49.925-08:002015-02-07T11:05:49.925-08:00RE math placement -
what are the score cut offs?
...RE math placement - <br />what are the score cut offs?<br />when do they let you know what will be used i.e. so I can give kid heads up that those particular tests will mean something for a change - i.e. be used for placement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-71790446804889275382015-02-07T07:42:12.144-08:002015-02-07T07:42:12.144-08:00What I was told by Advanced Learning would support...What I was told by Advanced Learning would support Anon 1:02am. They said if I choose Eckstein for my HCC student that I would not have the Garfield option but I would have the Ingraham IBX option. (could this be due to space?) On the website it also says eligibility is through Senior year. <br />MumAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-66119802874517637642015-02-07T01:02:46.950-08:002015-02-07T01:02:46.950-08:00Students retain their identification as highly cap...Students retain their identification as highly capable through their senior year. The highly capable cohort ends at the 8th grade so students can't join in the 9th.<br /><br />Those students in the cohort receive an automatic assignment to Garfield but it's no longer labeled the highly capable cohort at that point. This is a meaningless difference in terminology created for capacity management purposes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-82864952584256912642015-02-06T23:56:03.275-08:002015-02-06T23:56:03.275-08:00The 5th graders all took the math MAP a few weeks ...The 5th graders all took the math MAP a few weeks ago. The plan is that plus MSP from 4th. That will probably change next year.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64960735975437623602015-02-06T22:27:28.548-08:002015-02-06T22:27:28.548-08:00Since you're all on the topic of middle school...Since you're all on the topic of middle schools - how are they determining math placement for middle school now that not using MAP test at Lincoln?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-68677861234409418232015-02-06T22:25:47.482-08:002015-02-06T22:25:47.482-08:00So APP kids need to attend an APP middle school i...So APP kids need to attend an APP middle school in order to retain their APP eligibility for high school?<br /><br />So there isn't anything like the elementary situation where can retain eligibility without retesting if enrolled in an ALO school? <br /><br />Good to know - thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-39794812446938438162015-02-06T21:42:12.000-08:002015-02-06T21:42:12.000-08:00Nice tone there.
If there's an HCC cohort at ...Nice tone there.<br /><br />If there's an HCC cohort at Lincoln, kids who attend Eckstein won't have the option to join in the ninth grade. Choosing a non-HCC middle school may well limit your high school options. If Roosevelt is your attendance area high school and you like their program, it's probably fine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-33827759372537425462015-02-06T20:08:19.542-08:002015-02-06T20:08:19.542-08:00Ha!
Seriously, you actually think north end APP s...Ha!<br /><br />Seriously, you actually think north end APP students will get the option to go to Garfeild by the time that 5th grader is ready to head into 9th grade, 4 years from now?<br /><br />No one has a crystal ball, but seriously, it doesn't take a crystal ball to know that just ain't gonna happen. But hey, we can dream, right?<br /><br />Lincoln high school will be open by then, and 3 guesses as to who they are going to push into it. And the first two guesses don't count!!<br /><br />History is nothing if not a lesson in the movable feast that is APP/HCC.<br /><br />Expect a boomerang right back to lincoln. It's inevitable. <br /><br />So, pick the middle school you think is best for your student for all of the reasons you feel are important, but if high school is something you are factoring in, forget about Garfeild, because that is very, very shakey. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12778193046941686582015-02-06T19:35:41.194-08:002015-02-06T19:35:41.194-08:00If you choose to send your child to Eckstein, you ...If you choose to send your child to Eckstein, you won't have Garfield as an option for high school. I'd tour my neighborhood high school now if I was making this choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-81431274818390227252015-02-06T18:03:49.425-08:002015-02-06T18:03:49.425-08:00Does anyone have any experience sending their APP ...Does anyone have any experience sending their APP student to Eckstein for middle school (by that I mean a student who was going to an APP elementary - not just APP-qualified). I'm looking at all the options and wondering whether my current Lincoln student would do OK at Eckstein or whether best to go to an APP middle school. What subjects would an APP 6th grader be able to do at Eckstein - would there be a lot of repetition from what they did in 5th grade?<br />Thanks in advance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-35340290096692215942015-02-06T14:22:40.938-08:002015-02-06T14:22:40.938-08:00Lotsa questions asked: "Do families seek outs...Lotsa questions asked: "Do families seek outside tutoring/instruction in LA/writing etc if they feel this is deficient at school and how would one go about that?"<br /><br />A writing center formerly called 826 Seattle has been frequently recommended by folks. They have a new name apparently. You can check them out at fearlessideas.org.<br /><br />My kid took a writing class via the Robinson Center at UW, which I highly recommend for a motivated student willing to give up half of their summer. It was an Essay Writing class via their Summer Stretch program, for students finishing grades 7-10. My kid had disliked writing prior to that class, but was really inspired by all the readings, discussions, and lot of writing they did--and now enjoys reading, analysis and writing! They get to unlearn all the bad 5-paragraph-essay habits they learn in middle school and see that writing can be so much more varied and interesting. It's a big commitment, though--essentially three full days a week of class, with lots of homework to occupy evenings and non-class days. My kid regretted the much shortened summer, but was very glad to have taken the class and would have done it again in a heartbeat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-84994977995520119302015-02-06T14:07:58.143-08:002015-02-06T14:07:58.143-08:00The HIMS info is also outdated. Middle school webs...The HIMS info is also outdated. Middle school websites don't have a lot of info on academic offerings. It seems that it's not until high school that you get nice catalogs that describe offerings and prerequisites.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com