tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post5091608264847592376..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Impressions from the APP Advisory Committee meeting?Andrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-58924313673195960702009-11-11T11:54:28.750-08:002009-11-11T11:54:28.750-08:00The APP advisory board is very unaware of what is ...The APP advisory board is very unaware of what is going on in our community. Please email them with all of your concerns with anything that has to do with APP. I would like to see them be more effective but that will only happen if they know about concerns, questions and feelings we are all having. Do something positive and take action. Email the APP advisory board president Stephanie Bower at stbower@comcast.net.<br />Thanks,<br />Stephanie Barnett<br />VP of Enrichment Seattle Council PTSA<br />APP PAC representative<br />sdonath@aol.comStephanienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-52849057555498325752009-11-08T10:55:14.506-08:002009-11-08T10:55:14.506-08:00My daughter is in K at Lowell. I've noticed th...My daughter is in K at Lowell. I've noticed that the demographics in K are quite different than in the 1-5 ALO classes. Is that true at Marshall too? I remember reading that before this year Marshall had a lot of mandatory assignments and kids who hadn't done open enrollment. There are a fair number of middle class families in the Marshall assignment area. Maybe the differences between the programs will get less pronounced over time? I'm pretty sure that will happen at Lowell. Does it seem possible at Marshall?TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-6403204427114094322009-11-06T09:54:17.057-08:002009-11-06T09:54:17.057-08:00I am trying to find solutions for the APP communit...I am trying to find solutions for the APP community in general and for those at TM as well. <br /><br />So to solutions and transparency, I have joined the Parent Advisory Committee as the representative for APP. I will be meeting with all kinds of people at the district level to advocate for APP.<br /><br />I am also scheduling a meeting the CAO Susan Enfield to discuss the future of APP and solutions for TM. If anyone has anything they would like to relay to me about concerns questions please send them to sdonath@aol.com.<br /><br />I am also talking with the district about the safety issue at TM and am going to be asking them for more help,(ie. Maybe paid district people on the playground and possibly a vice principal for Julie to help her with her work load, or some other person to help). <br /><br />I want to be part of the solution for all of our children.<br />Stephanie Barnett<br />VP of Enrichment Seattle Council PTSA<br />206-931-4405<br />sdonath@aol.comStephanienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86251642113817542392009-11-05T23:15:40.424-08:002009-11-05T23:15:40.424-08:00Anyone who could weigh in on tonight's General...Anyone who could weigh in on tonight's General PTSA meeting at TM?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-23151638531614913642009-11-05T22:36:04.758-08:002009-11-05T22:36:04.758-08:00Hi Arch
No, I'm not offended by your tone.
...Hi Arch<br />No, I'm not offended by your tone. <br /><br />One of the insidious aspects of race issues and racism is our inability to trust our feelings. Of course I don't like him being called a Dummy but he is very astute socially. From the way he says it I know he sees it as a power play rather than something about him. Still, I worry about the lessons he learns to cope with these interactions. Lessons about race and Other kids.<br /><br />ShannonShannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13865361028544783972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-19618567703625283732009-11-05T22:34:24.068-08:002009-11-05T22:34:24.068-08:00I think things will be better after the meeting, w...I think things will be better after the meeting, which I attended. The challenges are proving to exceed expectations and capabilities, but Julie and the Staff have pledged to do all they can to get their arms around things, and believe things are improving. But that's hard to tell to any parent who's kid has been injured, and is afraid to go back on the playground. People needed reassurance that something was being done, and to date, weren't satisfied. <br /><br />I sensed a better understanding between parents and staff after the meeting, compared to before.<br /><br />I also came away dissatisfied at the district for not properly resourcing the merger - not by a long-shot. Especially since they swore they'd do everything they could to prevent another Madrona. Besides paying for the movers and some new instruments, I can't see anything else the district did to support the merger from a social standpoint. <br /><br />But if the first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge it, then we've cleared step one, and I'll take that as a big positive coming out of that meeting.pjmanleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16054995603686871751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-36257763711022586512009-11-05T22:27:52.123-08:002009-11-05T22:27:52.123-08:00You can't "work you way forward" if ...You can't "work you way forward" if people don't even agree about what the way forward is.<br /><br />We were hearing a lot of excuses the other night about why things can't change and we have to take lots of things into account before we act and how much time that all takes...<br /><br />Until we can even agree on a basic fact - violence in the school will not be tolerated and kids who are violent will be dealt with - nothing will change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-51865310783294987452009-11-05T21:21:28.966-08:002009-11-05T21:21:28.966-08:00It's not as though teaching nonviolent conflic...It's not as though teaching nonviolent conflict resolution and working against racism are mutually exclusive goals. Seattle is crawling with consultants who would be thrilled to help the TM community work together to resolve these problems and emerge stronger. The TM community is probably crawling with parents with the skills to write a grant to raise the funds to hire one of said consultants. There is a way forward, folks. Let's look for that, and skip the part where we write blog posts tearing each other apart. That's a waste of time.<br />-RuthieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-85828513451484526872009-11-05T20:49:17.856-08:002009-11-05T20:49:17.856-08:00Anon 11/5 at 6:46 said:
"We were handed a ho...Anon 11/5 at 6:46 said:<br /><br />"We were handed a horrible situation and need to work together and be patient. We need to be mindful of imposing our values on those of others, no mumbling that our values are better."<br /><br />I find this kind of talk extremely frustrating and non-productive. There was one parent at the meeting the other night saying that we were too "negative." Please. Is having a safe school where kids feel safe imposing our values? If so, I say fine. As a Lowell parent, I was very sorry to hear several parents mention that their kids were scared at school. No kid should be scared at school. I say my non violence value should be imposed. <br /><br />What about the disservice we are doing to these kids by not teaching them that non violence is "culturally appropriate" here? Should we only have them learn that after they hurt someone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-84452527258955118522009-11-05T20:34:31.629-08:002009-11-05T20:34:31.629-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-60911131627436810082009-11-05T20:16:44.956-08:002009-11-05T20:16:44.956-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-69563279324778483032009-11-05T19:31:42.273-08:002009-11-05T19:31:42.273-08:00"We need to be mindful of imposing our values..."We need to be mindful of imposing our values on those of others, no mumbling that our values are better."<br /><br />Which values are you referring to?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-81777826657582224442009-11-05T19:28:46.302-08:002009-11-05T19:28:46.302-08:00Well, here's an embarrassing contribution. Af...Well, here's an embarrassing contribution. After reading this thread I asked my Lowell 3rd Grader about breaks and whether he saw any problems. Utterly unprompted he said "No, no way. I don't have trouble at recess except the African American kids play rough sometimes and call me Dummy if I get in the way of their ball. But that's OK, I just say "sorry".<br /><br />I am really concerned at his racial characterization of the differences in play and the social distance he assumes is OK. On questioning about whether these were kids in his class he could talk to he said "No, the African American kids mainly play together. You know. Not the kids in my class - there are not many African American kids there."<br /><br />I am not sure what you do.Shannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13865361028544783972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-2941707199690016442009-11-05T18:46:31.587-08:002009-11-05T18:46:31.587-08:00It saddens me that children are getting bullied an...It saddens me that children are getting bullied and don't feel safe. It does seem that the bullying has lessened, any recent incidents?<br />My son expresses that the level of play is too rough and frightens him.<br /><br />We were handed a horrible situation and need to work together and be patient. We need to be mindful of imposing our values on those of others, no mumbling that our values are better. <br /><br />I think we need to tread cautiously on the safety issue. My threshold is definitely higher than many others. Risk by choice is ok with me but being forced to jump is not. If my boy and his friend decide to crash into each other, so be it. <br /><br />I'd rather avoid having random parents telling them what to do. My child will question authority and the answers need to be pretty sharp.<br /><br />If you want to volunteer to play with the kids great! If you want to monitor/instruct them I want you to have school wide approval and would hope you've gone through Positive Discipline or some other training.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-40518421897877895312009-11-05T16:03:39.890-08:002009-11-05T16:03:39.890-08:00Stephanie, I am so sorry to hear that.Stephanie, I am so sorry to hear that.MadronaGreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673450281922013816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-41954934960224797032009-11-05T15:51:59.163-08:002009-11-05T15:51:59.163-08:00Well, my son a first grader in APP has been repeat...Well, my son a first grader in APP has been repeatedly hit, kicked and punched on the playground by ALO students. The final straw was him coming home off the bus in tears with a golf ball size lump on his head and telling me he was punched in the head by an ALO student. I had to watch for a concussion all night long. There was no calls from school about this. He did report it to whoever was on the playground but as a first grader he didn't know he had to report to his teacher and Julie as well.I had a meeting with Julie about this and she was incredibly dismissive to me and called my son a liar, saying he was probably hit by a ball. My 4th grade APP daughter has witnessed fist fights that took 3 adults to get under control. She has had numerous friends who have been punched and kicked but their parents are so tired of Julie they refuse to deal with her. I have contacted the district safety department and was directed to the ombudsman and they are going to talk with Julies boss about this. I will be hearing from them tomorrow. I want all of the TM children to be safe and I want some playground rules in place with consequences.Stephanienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-14162843964187195552009-11-05T15:33:31.735-08:002009-11-05T15:33:31.735-08:00We have heard reports from our child (2nd grade) o...We have heard reports from our child (2nd grade) of behavior on the playground that would not have been tolerated at Lowell.<br /><br />It is sad the number of times we were told "the design committee will handle that" when the brief that the design committee was given was so small.<br /><br />My heart goes out to Julie B. for the number of things she is being asked to do. At the same time, one of the things that was so wonderful about Lowell was the low incidence of bullying and the acceptance of the Special Ed and APP children for who they were as indiviuals.<br /><br />While another non-profit commitment kept me from attending the Tuesday meeting, my hope is that we can all somehow work with Julie to achieve a solution.<br /><br />Thoughts?MadronaGreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673450281922013816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-55773497740987367522009-11-05T14:44:15.677-08:002009-11-05T14:44:15.677-08:00I would like to see something like the Lowell Way ...I would like to see something like the Lowell Way at TM. SOMETHING that is relevant to all the kids in the school, and that can be incorporated into their school experience. My son used to refer to the Lowell Way. I've heard him and his friends discuss it. It meant something to them. It informed some of their decisions and behavior. <br /><br />Now (yes?) it's gone from Lowell, and whatever the Thurgood Marshall pledge is, it doesn't resonate with my son.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-39976844736195359432009-11-05T14:38:14.789-08:002009-11-05T14:38:14.789-08:00And more evidence that this is not really about AP...And more evidence that this is not really about APP vs ALO, this is about unsafe behavior which can be directed within one's own group: my 4th grader reports seeing a kid having his arms twisted behind his back by a couple of other kids (all ALO). I was so proud of him (maybe this is the Lowell anti-bullying program at work): he said "What are you doing to him?" and they said, "it's ok, he's our friend." He said, "well, stop it," which they did - he worried though that they might do it again when he wasn't looking. I said, honey, I am SO PROUD of you. But you did what you could, you can't be the playground police. (And of course I'm thinking, please don't stick your neck out too far and get hurt yourself! He kind of freaked me out with the story of the 2 5th graders who according to my kid were clawing at each other so viciously that the teachers couldn't get them apart.)<br /><br />Time for solutions!<br /><br />Please call me or email if you want to coordinate.<br />Davonna Cufley<br />935 4365<br />davonna@cufley.orgUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972224306183127159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-32746747651888303932009-11-05T14:02:31.191-08:002009-11-05T14:02:31.191-08:00I was at the meeting last night because of my deep...I was at the meeting last night because of my deep concern about Julie's (lack of) response to playground safety. I know there have been bullying issues, but for now I'm willing to accept that it will be a long-term process to change that. There was an effective program in place at Lowell (and it sounds like TT Minor as well - Second Step which was used there is a great program). We can eventually get that established at TM. What appalled me was finally understanding why my son had been pushed off the slide a couple of weeks ago. A standard playground game for 2nd grade at TM that I observed on Monday was to try to pull one's friends off the big play structure (either trying to push them off the top of the slide or I saw a girl pulling down on another girl's arm as she hung headfirst by her knees from the monkey bars). Another game is to slide head-first down to the bottom of the big spiral slide and then block it, causing other kids to pile up on the slide. My 2nd grader accidentally joined the pile oj the slide one day when there were only a few at the bottom and he couldn't see them from the top - they wouldn't get off the bottom of the slide and let him off, so he was contemplating jumping over the side, decided that would be too dangerous for him, when another girl came down on top of him and pushed him off the slide, causing him to hurt his arm. Julie's got a wonderful idea that we need to accept kids as they are, but she's waiting to develop the personal relationships with kids that will give her the clout to discipline them before she tackles the 2nd grade playground culture. Meanwhile, several ALO boys are getting the slide shut down nearly daily according to my son (confirmed by Morgan Jones - who is awesome out there - firm and stern when called for, but respectful to kids). And they're getting a lot of prestige from their peers for it. When 5 kids were pulling on each other at once, Morgan just had to let it go - that's when I saw the girl pull down on the other one hanging on the monkey bars, although to give him credit he might not have seen that.<br /><br />What deeply disturbs me is Julie's response when I reported this in the hallway after, describing to her very specifically what I'd seen on the playground that day. Her response was that she had African refugee boys out there, who had to be physical, some of whom had never had a white person in authority over them before. And then the part about needing to develop relationships before discipline could follow. My strong feeling is that we owe it to all TM kids to convey to them that they are important enough to keep safe, and that as adults, we are not going to let them hurt themselves or each other. Positive discipline is about immediate non-punitive enforcement of clear boundaries - and when handled in a way that makes it clear that the kid's ok but the behavior's not, discipline engenders the trust Julie is trying to build! I helped Morgan shut down the slide on Monday (after EIGHT children piled on with the two at the bottom oriented head-down, holding up the rest). (It took Susan at the bottom blocking kids from swarming up from below as well.) Right after the kids gave up on the slide and took off, a little boy climbed up to the top of a nearby ladder and said to me "I hope I don't die." I had no idea what he meant, so I just said, no, don't die, you're too valuable. (Since I was concerned that the tolerance of unsafe behavior on the playground was sending him the clear message that he wasn't valuable enough to protect.) He then jumped backward off the top of the play structure (with the pole right behind him - good thing he didn't hit his head). He said, pleased, "I didn't die." And ran off to join his friends. He was checking to see what I'd do - he wanted my attention for his stunt, and he was trying to see if I'd stop him from trying it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972224306183127159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-19303779676414241202009-11-05T13:23:28.614-08:002009-11-05T13:23:28.614-08:00Skeptic I think she used poetry as an example of s...Skeptic I think she used poetry as an example of something that is less academic that could build relationships between the two programs. At Lowell, I believe they are handling that with drama as well.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07751038868847448430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-77192115177194019502009-11-05T12:45:04.570-08:002009-11-05T12:45:04.570-08:00Definitions of ALO and APP were outlined by Greg K...Definitions of ALO and APP were outlined by Greg King at Lowell in a Thursday Note. In the TN he said ALO students would move up to another ALO class should they need advanced instruction. (Eliminating the concern about blending with APP) Julie B. was asked to do the same so there was an understanding among both populations, and so far she has declined to do so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-56362138758625688812009-11-05T12:44:00.503-08:002009-11-05T12:44:00.503-08:00To the anonymous poster with the question about so...To the anonymous poster with the question about solutions to the TM playground issues: Maybe other people who attended the APP AC meeting can offer their take, but I felt like Julie had very little to say regarding solutions beyond "This will take time." Some parents offered to come in and help monitor the playground, but there seemed to be reluctance to take them up on that offer. I think there were worries that a group of white APP parents trying to tell general-ed. kids how to behave on the playground might create a whole new set of problems. And I'm the first to admit that I'm a little paranoid after the whole APP split last year, but I was a bit worried about where Julie may be going with the argument that the more the APP kids and general-ed. kids spend time together, the more they will get to know each other and respect each other, at which point the playground problems will abate. Sounds great, right? But the example she offered was having kids from both programs come together to do more academic work, say, perhaps, a poetry unit. I can't get my kid's APP teacher to offer him work on his level as it is. What is going to happen when she has to shift the curriculum back down to grade level for these APP/general-ed. academic projects so that everyone feels included? Is Julie really claiming that the only way she can "change the culture" on the playground is by watering down the little bit of academic rigor we're struggling to hold onto in the APP classrooms?Skeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14046848557198076031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-4951591628302124252009-11-05T12:31:57.958-08:002009-11-05T12:31:57.958-08:00The ALO designation simply means that *if* a stude...<i>The ALO designation simply means that *if* a student is capable of working above grade level, they receive some sort of support or accomodation for that, the specifics of which are left to the school.</i><br /><br />IMO, the best teachers (given the resources) differentiate even if they are not labeled ALO. Yet, in my experience, we are expected to refer to the entire non-APP population at Lowell as ALO whether they receive differentiated instruction or not. It kind of makes the designation meaningless, doesn't it. <br /><br />Is it done to make Johnny (or his parents) feel better to be told he is in "Advanced Learning" even if he is not "school ready" and is receiving standard or even remedial instruction? Or is it done to give prospective parents a warm, fuzzy feeling to think their kids' needs might be met at their neighborhood school?<br /><br />What's the point?ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-25948118499345595892009-11-05T12:11:13.685-08:002009-11-05T12:11:13.685-08:00By their own criteria, an ALO student should be &q...<i>By their own criteria, an ALO student should be "school ready". Yet in spite of that, SPS treats ALO like any other Gen Ed class. If they were serious about their own guidelines, students who are not "school ready" would and should receive an environment, curriculum, and education that met their needs.</i><br /><br />I think you have a misapprehension about what it means for a school to offer ALO. There is no expectation that all, or in fact, any students in an ALO school or class meet or exceed academic expectations. The ALO designation simply means that *if* a student is capable of working above grade level, they receive some sort of support or accomodation for that, the specifics of which are left to the school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com