tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post6637809981783068588..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Student Assignment Plan is ApprovedAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-56768044947877860642017-04-29T09:49:56.210-07:002017-04-29T09:49:56.210-07:00Thanks to everyone who answered! I only just now s...Thanks to everyone who answered! I only just now saw all of the replies and really appreciate everyone who took the time to answer.<br /><br />I ultimately did get private testing for my girls and they scored much higher than necessary for eligibility so the appeal was successful.<br /><br />This raises a concern that the screening is not doing its job in finding kids who would benefit from HCC.<br /><br />What has been interesting for me is how much academics are being emphasized even in kindergarten. I guess I thought it would be all about socialization and exploration but there is a good deal of basic math and reading being taught in their class.<br /><br />Its not reasonable (or necessary, in my opinion) that their teacher develop a 4th grade curriculum for my daughters, but that means that they're already starting to check out during academic times in class and they either do the work quickly and indifferently, turn it into some other task, or just spend the time reading instead.<br /><br />I'm really glad they'll be in HCC this fall since their development rate seems to be actually accelerating and they're already ahead of the 'two years ahead' that I'm told is standard for HCC.<br /><br />robknihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07422849817067062095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-6094525896342413482017-02-02T11:08:45.044-08:002017-02-02T11:08:45.044-08:00" Plus, factor in the differences in how well..." Plus, factor in the differences in how well--or how poorly--schools, and individual teachers, differentiate. There aren't a lot of ALO or Spectrum schools left, and some principals and teachers are opposed to any sort of walk-to's and the like."<br /><br />Yes, the particular ALO school had walk to math (at the time) & although few HCC, a solid group of spectrum eligible kids. It helped. Still kid was an academic outlier in the entire grade. But was good from a neighborhood perspective to stay in the neighborhood & happened to have a kid who did o.k and was o.k with being the smart kid. I don't think the other HCC kids who do not do o.k are any smarter if that is what you are trying to say. This kid is 99% cogat and WISC as well when we tested for Evergreen. If more HCC qualified kids could be served well in their neighborhood schools would be better. This might not be a reality in many schools in Seattle, but seems they are working on adding HCC pathways to more schools due to the explosion of HCC. Simultaneously eliminating spectrum though which makes no sense. I agree it would depend upon elementary school. <br />- MBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-68397321594558842152017-02-02T10:57:14.980-08:002017-02-02T10:57:14.980-08:00" I'm happy that ALO met your child's..." I'm happy that ALO met your child's needs, but that in no way suggests than any other school will meet any other kid's needs. Even among HC-qualified students there is a huge range of abilities. Your kid happened to be in the range where their needs could still be met by a neighborhood elementary, which gave you more options."<br /><br />I would say that the ALO elementary school tried to differentiate, as best as it could without HCC qualified students. It would have been a much better experience for my child if there were more HCC qualified kids were in the school. My child had maybe 1 or two others in the classroom. I agree that some kids really benefit from HCC. I am not disputing that fact. HCC in middle has been very beneficial to my kid, now with HCC peers. Yes, huge variance in HCC as well. Child is surprised still feels like one of the top students in the HCC classes academically. <br /><br />My response was meant for the parent with a K child who did not meet cogat threshold and whose kindergarten kids tested 99% on MAP. It was not a disaster for our child, 99% cogat, also testing 99% on MAP year after year, who did have some spectrum qualified kids in the classroom. There are pluses to being in a neighborhood school. But the school also has to have enough kids spectrum eligible to differentiate.<br /><br /> -MB Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-5619965654004255892017-02-01T21:36:25.845-08:002017-02-01T21:36:25.845-08:00@ MB, I have to say, it really drives me nuts when...@ MB, I have to say, it really drives me nuts when parents assume that what worked for their kid will work for others. I'm happy that ALO met your child's needs, but that in no way suggests than any other school will meet any other kid's needs. Even among HC-qualified students there is a huge range of abilities. Your kid happened to be in the range where their needs could still be met by a neighborhood elementary, which gave you more options. Other families aren't so lucky, and their kids were/are just too out of sync to be served at their assignment school. It happens. Plus, factor in the differences in how well--or how poorly--schools, and individual teachers, differentiate. There aren't a lot of ALO or Spectrum schools left, and some principals and teachers are opposed to any sort of walk-to's and the like. If you're in a school like that, good luck getting differentiation. <br /><br />There are people who opt out of HCC, and I suspect that most do so because whatever they are currently doing is working ok--whether that be an accommodating neighborhood school, some partial homeschooling by parents, extracurricular enrichment, etc. There are also people--a lot of them--who are forced to flee to HCC to have any hope of getting what their child needs. Often these differences are apparent very early on, way before kindergarten. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-71630518153627752262017-02-01T20:15:36.754-08:002017-02-01T20:15:36.754-08:00So the director of the Robinson Center recommends ...So the director of the Robinson Center recommends that the district not follow state law? We are required to identify kids from grades K-12.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-36494473932908908332017-02-01T17:27:49.654-08:002017-02-01T17:27:49.654-08:00I meant SPS, not SOS
-MBI meant SPS, not SOS<br />-MBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-63234060123587070852017-02-01T17:27:26.066-08:002017-02-01T17:27:26.066-08:00My 2 cents, is that I spoke to the woman at UW who...My 2 cents, is that I spoke to the woman at UW who run the Robinson center. She does not think SOS should be testing for gifted in kindergarten. My child always tested 99% year after year in elementary on state tests. We tested again (cogat) in 4th grade and qualified for HCC no appeal, thru school testing. My child went thru an ALO elementary and did fine with some differentiation in math and reading, and is now thriving in HCC in middle school. It is fine to wait before you decide to move them and I believe they can more accurately identify gifted kids who would benefit from the program later.<br />-MBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-19183287338819508692017-01-31T17:00:52.354-08:002017-01-31T17:00:52.354-08:00@robkni
My 2 cents in addition to what Benjamin sa...@robkni<br />My 2 cents in addition to what Benjamin said:<br /><br />If your daughters are finding friends that have common interests and/or they come home from school talking about some of the cool stuff they learned, you're probably fine to wait another year.<br /><br />If they're only sitting with each other at lunch, think the best part of the day is PE, or their CogAT scores look incongruent with their MAP scores, then it may be worth having them retested privately.<br />tdubnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-66778188314090832582017-01-31T14:32:04.248-08:002017-01-31T14:32:04.248-08:00Based on what you describe, the cogat scores didn&...Based on what you describe, the cogat scores didn't meet the thresholds so you will need to appeal if you do go down that route based on alternative cognitive testing. That means you can't use the MAP scores for this purpose.<br /><br />1. Do you qualify for the Free and Reduced Lunch program? If so the district will pay for the appeal process IQ test and I would probably go through on it.<br /><br />2. The cogat is more likely to be reliable a second time around in first grade. One option is to wait and retest next year. How is the experience this year going? Are they bored or are you worried they are not learning enough? In other words, do you feel there is there an immediate need to enter into the program or not? Speaking only for myself as a family that did not enter in first grade, we thought our needs were met at our school in Kindergarten and waiting did not have any impact on the experience once we did join later on. <br /><br />3. Even if you feel can wait, you'll need to balance this against the possibility the appeal process may change in future years. It may be safer to pursue an appeal now especially if you think there is any possibility of a learning disability interfering with the testing.<br /><br />Ultimately I don't think you will get much out of talking to the administration. The decision boils down to some combination of your gut instincts and tolerance for risk.<br /><br />I hope this helpsBenjamin Leishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-41896928352204141152017-01-31T12:37:57.332-08:002017-01-31T12:37:57.332-08:00Hello all.
So... I have no idea whether it would ...Hello all.<br /><br />So... I have no idea whether it would be worthwhile to appeal or not. My daughters are in kindergarten and after doing the initial COGAT in October the Source said no further testing is necessary. Okay. <br /><br />But on their MAP tests one of my daughters scored a reading RIT of 197 and math RIT of 194, the other scored a reading RIT of 198 and math RIT of 203. Those score put them comfortably in 99+ percentiles and correlate to 3rd/4th grade ability levels.<br /><br />I think my daughters have many characteristics that I read are associated with gifted children but I'm their dad. I'm not objective.<br /><br />So what do I do? Appeal? I don't like the idea of having them take a private IQ test but will an appeal based on their MAP scores alone be rejected out of hand? Should I just let this go for a year? I'm afraid they'll be bored and frustrated in 1st grade. Our home school is Thurgood Marshall, so should I just talk to the administration about this? Maybe they have ideas.<br /><br />Help!robknihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07422849817067062095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-70542612048433795712017-01-26T15:05:02.107-08:002017-01-26T15:05:02.107-08:00West Seattle Families:
Following up from the pos...West Seattle Families: <br /><br />Following up from the post above, here is the information I was provided by both Enrollment and Advanced Learning:<br /><br />The HCC kids who are currently enrolled at Washington Middle school will remain there unless they opt out the program and want to go Madison Gen Ed.<br /> <br />Madison HCC is open only for the new riser who are currently attending the elementary HCC at West Seattle. The default for the 7th and the 8th grade remains at Washington.<br /> <br />The Pathway for West Seattle rising 6th graders will be Madison. <br /><br />I did not ask if a rising 6th grader could go through Open Enrollment and try to get into WMS. <br /><br />Thanks - Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-83043987239188910502017-01-26T09:04:35.691-08:002017-01-26T09:04:35.691-08:00No I don't think it's possible for new WS ...No I don't think it's possible for new WS HCC students to enroll at WMS. Choice placements are based not just on seat availability but also on the effect they will have on the student's default school. This change was made specifically to drive more HCC students to Madison and make it possible to offer HC classes there. These students now have no other option than to essentially attend a one room school within a school for their middle school years. They'll be assigned to the same ELA, social studies and science courses. Most will take the same full year music elective which means they'll also be assigned to the same PE class. In 7th and 8th grades they may split up into two separate world language classes.<br /><br />This is not the choice most parents would make for their middle school students.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-84553791516347603592017-01-24T12:19:33.585-08:002017-01-24T12:19:33.585-08:00It seems like it would still be possible for WS HC...It seems like it would still be possible for WS HCC kids to select WMS HCC as their first choice during open enrollment. If there's room, wouldn't they get in? <br /><br />As far as transportation, since rising 6th and 7th graders from WS will be grandfathered at WMS, maybe incoming HCC 6th graders from WS could receive transportation for at least two years if they received placement at WMS. <br /><br />-Seattle Parent<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-11568579144167069482017-01-24T11:55:26.918-08:002017-01-24T11:55:26.918-08:00The cohort. It's not just for the benefit of t...The cohort. It's not just for the benefit of the AL students - it provides an enrollment management tool for the district. APP/HCC has historically been placed in schools that would otherwise be considered underperforming or underenrolled. HIMS went from an enrollment of just under 700 and 55% FRL to an enrollment around 900 and 20% FRL in just a couple of years (it's now around 8%). How many JAMS HCC students are from the Eckstein area? Those who were around for the first splits will remember TM and Hawthorne being proposed as elementary APP locations, TM being the location for north end students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-83050394232741997722017-01-24T08:07:34.923-08:002017-01-24T08:07:34.923-08:00Fairmount Park families just learned of this chang...Fairmount Park families just learned of this change last week. Until that point, the principal had been publishing tour dates at both WMS and Madison in the PTA newsletter.<br /><br />I expect every north end middle school to be an HCC site in the near future. The excuse for busing kids to HIMS and JAMS and WMS has always been to provide a cohort for both students and teachers. This change by the school board informs us that 30 students per grade is an adequate cohort. <br /><br />The program placement report that was attached to the agenda for last week's board meeting said that current WS WMS students will be able to stay at the school. The grandfathering of these students is not included in the student assignment plan though and this promise may be as strong as the one given to Whitman families when the RESMS boundaries were drawn in 2013.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-35355079767186051002017-01-23T10:12:56.197-08:002017-01-23T10:12:56.197-08:00I have not reached out to AL. I agree with you th...I have not reached out to AL. I agree with you though. It states that currently enrolled WS HCC WMS (how is that for a string?!)students will continue through WMS as their pathway. I wonder if many WS HCC families are aware of this coming change. There used to be an email group, not sure if it is still active. I'm thinking of folks with multiple middle school aged kids making choices.<br /><br />westseattle oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-77162073995401998762017-01-21T15:39:39.295-08:002017-01-21T15:39:39.295-08:00West Seattle Families -
Has anyone spoken with th...West Seattle Families - <br />Has anyone spoken with the school district to get clarity on Madison vs. WMS assignments, for those kids who are currently enrolled at WMS? <br /><br />I carefully read the approved assignment plan but there is no specific mention of current West Seattle WMS kids transitioning to Madison.<br /><br />The SPS Website Advanced Learning 2017-2018 enrollment grid states the following as a footnote: ** Madison as an HCC pathway site is rolling up, beginning with 6th grade in September 2017, adding 7th grade in 2018, and 8th grade in 2019. That implies, to me, that current West Seattle WMS students (current 6th or 7th grade) can continue to attend WMS next year and the year after, as next year, Madison will only be the official pathway site for 6th graders. <br /><br />I will email Advanced Learning and report back what I find, just curious if anyone has already done so.<br />west seattle wms parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-22754653491236373092017-01-15T14:14:03.168-08:002017-01-15T14:14:03.168-08:00I posted the following comparison of RHS & IBx...I posted the following comparison of RHS & IBx on last year's thread. There are others who sent HCC kids to 2 different high schools that posted last January, so maybe go back to that thread. <br /><br /><br />The one thing I have learned since posting last year is the difference between HL math & AP Calc AB/BC. HL math is more rigorous. Not because students go further, but because they go deeper. AP Calc series was similar but not equivalent to the first 2 calc classes at UW. HL math included more proofs, investigations & creativity more like the upper division classes that math majors take. So if you want more college credit, take AP math, if you love thinking about math, then HL math may be a better fit. Both scenarios can include AP Stats, which I think is basic to any future college studies.<br /><br />last year I said...<br /><br />I also had one APP qualified student at RHS & one at IHS. RHS had a strong cohort because that class came from the days when most NE APP qualified students did not move to APP, so they continued to together through Eckstien & Roosevelt. It could be different now students are moving into APP at a higher rate.<br /><br />I think the both RHS & IHS have equivalent math opportunities. LA & History are more rigorous at IHS because IB is more critical thinking/writing & less memorizing than AP. Science is a mixed bag at IHS & poor at RHS because good science teachers seem to be scarce. Foreign language is strongest at RHS. At IHS, if you do the diploma, much of the rigor will be humanities because of the way IB works.<br /><br />My RHS kid loved the LA honors options, partly because they are somewhat independent, so they can be very creative & demanding.<br /><br />The real difference is AP vs IB program. I think most kids would do better in one or the other. Also the EC's are extremely different, much lower key & more open to different abilities at IHS, more demanding & competitive at RHS.<br /><br />One other difference is the school culture. RHS is bureaucratic & inflexible, cliquey & competitive. IHS is more student focused & flexible, inclusive & laid back. RHS has some rock star teachers but IHS has a more solid staff overall.<br /><br /><br />-Just my opinionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-60003891221332949012017-01-14T23:24:28.087-08:002017-01-14T23:24:28.087-08:00I had heard somewhere that the state pays for HCC ...I had heard somewhere that the state pays for HCC busing, not SPS.Not Surenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-80647789491128833662017-01-14T18:42:01.409-08:002017-01-14T18:42:01.409-08:00It looks like Garfield is still going to be the HC...It looks like Garfield is still going to be the HCC pathway for West Seattle kids, even though rising HCC 5th graders will go to Madison rather than WMS. If so, and since I believe rising 6th and 7th grade HCC kids who are already at WMS will be grandfathered (won't go to Madison for 7th and 8th), it seems like transportation will still be offered for West Seattle HCC kids going to WMS and to Garfield (AM)going forward. If I'm off-track on this understanding, please let me know. Thanks!<br /><br />-West Seattle parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-75636273393030259942017-01-13T23:32:23.576-08:002017-01-13T23:32:23.576-08:00
hcc kids get sped treatment for bussing. so ther...<br /><br />hcc kids get sped treatment for bussing. so there are additional funds for them and yeah they do a census later in the first 30 days to estimate money to recieve.<br /><br />no capsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12153251354924249572017-01-13T20:22:07.464-08:002017-01-13T20:22:07.464-08:00Thanks for the link and page note on the Student A...Thanks for the link and page note on the Student Assignment plan. <br />As I read it, the students currently at WMS would be grandfathered in (pg11)? <br />If so, then they'd retain bus service? <br />Also I have a vague recollection of the HCC bus service being under a different funding than gen ed buses? They'd tally the kids on the bus for a week to determine the funding amount. Does anyone else recall something of that nature?<br /><br />westseattle oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-74925260118521501672017-01-13T19:22:22.547-08:002017-01-13T19:22:22.547-08:00thanks lynn. i doubted that madison would work. i ...thanks lynn. i doubted that madison would work. i forget which of the out going board directors wanted that madness to happen and with meany opening now their will be even less kids at wms. that said altf recommendations that were approved by the sup/board called for 3 classes per grade to be able to achieve the scheduling flexibility needed. damage done. snuck through to satisfy marty i think. <br /><br />no yellow bus would be bad for ws to ghs kids right. is that a strong arm move? do they still have the ibx bus from south seattle?<br /><br />i did hear some murmurs to move qa and mag hcc kids to wms instead of hims. not sure if that will make sense. <br /><br />no caps<br /><br />no capsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-78108057116386727212017-01-13T17:07:24.402-08:002017-01-13T17:07:24.402-08:00The new pathway is listed on Appendix A of the Stu...The new pathway is listed on Appendix A of the Student Assignment Transition Plan that was approved this week. (See page 21 of <a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/16-17agendas/01_04_2017/A04_20170104_Action_Report_Student_Assignment_Plan_packet.pdf" rel="nofollow">the Board Action Report</a>. <br /><br />Garfield is still the high school pathway though I wouldn't count on that for long. You can see the recommendations of the Madison Middle School HCC Focus Group <a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=15318574" rel="nofollow">here</a>. This decision was made as an effort to shore up the program offered at Madison but does so at the expense of families who prefer the self-contained classes promised in the school board policy.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-88279515974404535962017-01-13T15:11:45.911-08:002017-01-13T15:11:45.911-08:00Lynn -
Thank you for sharing the information abou...Lynn - <br />Thank you for sharing the information about West Seattle students losing buses & seats at WMS. Are HS students still guaranteed enrollment at Garfield? Where did you find this information? I'd like to share it with other West Seattle folks.<br /><br />westseattle oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com