tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post7245375547905163060..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: January Open ThreadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger148125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-72747954106807406672016-02-02T15:08:40.935-08:002016-02-02T15:08:40.935-08:00High school students are identified because it'...High school students are identified because it's required by OSPI. Identification does not provide access to any services. I suspect they make the process so complicated to reduce the number of students referred.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-82735231845146575822016-02-02T15:02:13.830-08:002016-02-02T15:02:13.830-08:00Thank you for posting the Superintendent's Pro...Thank you for posting the Superintendent's Procedure Lynn. This clarifies a lot, but brings up questions too. I wonder why they go to so much trouble just to *refer* HS students for testing? There are several rather subjective hoops to jump through ("current achievements and coursework?") before they will even look at CogAT and achievement numbers. <br /><br />I'm also curious as to how many of these procedures are really happening in practice, because a few of them stand out:<br />>CogAT results prior to Open Enrollment -- It's been awhile since that was true.<br />>Individual student education plans reviewed annually at parent/teacher conference at elementary and middle schools -- Middle Schools don't have parent/teacher conferences so I'm not sure how they can do this.<br />>HCC students who don't enroll receive documented services the their current school -- This definitely was NOT our experience, but I'd like to hope that has changed since this official procedure was written.<br /><br />good fitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-70030561375269216002016-02-02T09:29:26.012-08:002016-02-02T09:29:26.012-08:00Ken,
The Advanced Learning office changed the rul...<b>Ken</b>,<br /><br />The Advanced Learning office changed the rules, then realized they are required to present proposed changes to the school board's Curriculum and Instruction Committee and provide an opportunity for public input before making changes. They've rolled back some (but not all) of those changes on the eligibility criteria chart. <br /><br />The actual rules in place are those published in <a href="http://sps.ss8.sharpschool.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/advancedlearning/2190SP.sbm.pdf" rel="nofollow">SP 2190</a>. According to the procedure, scores from the complete CogAT (not the screener) can be used to qualify for Spectrum. If they are sending Spectrum qualification letters to students who haven't taken the entire CogAT, they're not following the rules. <br /><br />I agree that the CogAT is too long for a test given to kids in K-2 - so can see their point. However, staff should be required to follow the procedures. They can't be allowed to make them up as they go along. The criteria for highly capable identification of high school students is a good example of where that leads us.<br /><br />The procedure says high school identification requires 98th percentile CogAT scores and 95th percentile math and reading scores plus a review of current achievements, current overall GPA and coursework and grades in IB and/or AP courses.<br /><br />The eligibility chart says high school identification requires 95th percentile reading and math scores and portfolio assessment. Cognitive scores are not required but will be considered if submitted. <br /><br />The referral form for high school students says eligibility requires <b>98th</b> percentile reading, math and writing scores on the SAT or PSAT, cumulative GPA of 3.8 and significantly above average grades in AP/IB courses. The referral form also indicates that students must submit an essay in which <i>you reflect on yourself through the Highly Capable lens.</i> The essay <i>examines how and why you are an example of a Highly Capable student.</i><br /><br />I can't begin to understand how anyone thinks that is not intrusive and creepy. Now, we all know that highly capable designation in high school is meaningless (much like cluster-grouped Spectrum) - but if the ALO staff is allowed to add this essay to the identification requirements, they can add anything they'd like (a similar essay for middle school students, 98th percentile achievement scores for any grade in which the program is "too large", refusal to consider IQ scores for eligibility, etc.)Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-75515169666223313182016-02-01T18:09:49.627-08:002016-02-01T18:09:49.627-08:00@ 4:42pm
We're in the same boat. Called for ...@ 4:42pm<br /><br />We're in the same boat. Called for achievement but not for full Cogat.<br /><br />South DadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-81776210058532096222016-02-01T16:42:24.473-08:002016-02-01T16:42:24.473-08:00Does that include private school students? We test...Does that include private school students? We tested on a regular date but only have been called for achievement tests.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-90772251878434819612016-02-01T16:37:13.095-08:002016-02-01T16:37:13.095-08:00I received more helpful clarification from Advance...I received more helpful clarification from Advanced Learning today.....email follows: <br /><br />"Yes. Students in 1st and 2nd grade who receive a score of 87%+ on the CogAT Screening form will be considered for Advanced Learner eligibility. Achievement scores are also needed for determining eligibility. Advanced learning attempted to change procedure so that kindergarten students would be evaluated with the same criteria, but that decision has not been approved at this time. Kindergarteners with 90%+ will be considered for Advanced Learner eligibility and no achievement scores are necessary. The clarification will be added to the eligibility page. Thank you.<br /><br />All K-2 CogAt call backs for students who tested during the originally scheduled dates and scored 94+ are now complete and families have been notified . We are still scheduling students who missed the original testing dates.<br /><br />Please let me know if you have any more questions and we sincerely appreciate your input toward making the process clearer for SPS families."<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-63923137193148727602016-02-01T16:15:03.712-08:002016-02-01T16:15:03.712-08:00The screener is all analogies. At least in the ver...The screener is all analogies. At least in the verbal section, and probably the quantitative section as well, that is a much more challenging task than simply asking "which one of these things can fly" or whatever. Analogies are often misunderstood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-14762616287814084572016-02-01T16:10:02.418-08:002016-02-01T16:10:02.418-08:00AP/Lynn----Measures become more reliable/trustwort...AP/Lynn----Measures become more reliable/trustworthy when there are more items (in this case CogAt subscales) being assessed. The cut-off is as likely to produce false positives (identifying a kid as Spectrum qualified who would not have met eligibility requirements on the full test) and false negatives (failing to identify a kid who scored just below threshold who would score above threshold on the full test).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-90275537394542747052016-02-01T15:27:20.875-08:002016-02-01T15:27:20.875-08:00Lynn, why is it that many more would test in with ...Lynn, why is it that many more would test in with the full Cogat? Is it just statistically likely, or does the screener comprise the more difficult sections of the test (which would make sense with the recommendation for a lower cut score). Giving the hardest part and taking a larger percentage seems to make more sense than giving the easiest part and taking a narrow percentage. That seems like it would be a more random slice.<br /><br />APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64097846668584039572016-02-01T15:21:38.730-08:002016-02-01T15:21:38.730-08:00Lynn and Ken, This text was just posted in last we...Lynn and Ken, This text was just posted in last week's update to the AL website.<br /><br />For students in grades K-2, a score of 87 or above on the Cognitive Abilities Screening Form satisfies the cognitive requirement for Advanced Learner/Spectrum eligibility. However, only students who scored 94 or above are invited to take to take the full CogAT battery if they wish to be considered for Highly Capable services. <br /><br />And as Ken mentions, students who got 94+ on the screener were explicitly notified via email that they had already met the requirements for Spectrum.<br /><br />First grade parent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-63202219882247763032016-02-01T15:02:28.791-08:002016-02-01T15:02:28.791-08:00Hi Lynn, I can't understand if you're sayi...Hi Lynn, I can't understand if you're saying that the Advanced Learning office changed the rules, but aren't in compliance, or if the rules didn't change? I do know that parents of children who scored 94%+ on the screener were told this year they didn't need to take the full CogAt for Spectrum. They only needed to take it if they wanted to do HCC. <br /><br />I do agree that the second paragraph is unfortunate, since it makes it statistically less likely that a child at the 87%ile would test into Spectrum. That seems like a pretty huge mistake by whoever owns testing for Spectrum.Kennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-69302391034233397452016-02-01T14:56:04.502-08:002016-02-01T14:56:04.502-08:00Ken,
According to the Superintendent Procedure, t...Ken,<br /><br />According to the Superintendent Procedure, the only way to qualify for Spectrum in any grade using the CogAT is to take the entire test. The Advanced Learning office had wanted to change this for K-2 but this would not comply with the current rules. <br /><br />Under the (now scrapped) plan for this year, a student with an 85% on the screener would not qualify for Spectrum and would not be allowed to take the full CogAT. A student in this position with qualifying math and reading achievement scores, would have to arrange for private IQ testing. This is unfortunate because many students who don't qualify with the screener would qualify with the full CogAT.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-55735119943588383322016-02-01T14:34:53.282-08:002016-02-01T14:34:53.282-08:00Regarding Cogat and Spectrum -- I think what confu...Regarding Cogat and Spectrum -- I think what confuses the issue is that if you get a 94% on the screener then you don't need to take the full CogAt for Spectrum.<br /><br />What isn't clear is if you score, for example, an 85% on the screener then will you get the full CogAt (in an attempt to score over 87% for the full CogAt)?Kennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-27885153300688771272016-02-01T13:50:45.773-08:002016-02-01T13:50:45.773-08:00No - if you look at page four of SP 2190 you'l...No - if you look at page four of SP 2190 you'll see that students in K-2nd grade do need to take the full CogAT to qualify for Spectrum. <br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/Procedures/Series%202000/2190SP.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-56201478962676731292016-02-01T12:54:03.141-08:002016-02-01T12:54:03.141-08:00I heard back from Advanced Learning with respect t...I heard back from Advanced Learning with respect to the inconsistencies, mainly concerning Spectrum Criteria, on their web pages:<br /><br /><br />"Thank you very much for your email. We have made the necessary changes to the website pages in order to improve the consistency of the provided information, and to reflect current SP 2190 (Superintendent Procedures)."<br /><br />They then provided the criteria in a couple tables, that I don't think can be pasted in this text box. But, the criteria are cleaned up on the web page and reflect the following:<br />http://www.seattleschools.org/students/academics/advanced_learning/eligibility_criteria/<br />I did notify them that the still have a Spectrum error, as the table indicates that first-second graders need 87%+ on two areas of the full CogAt, when in reality, it is this level of performance on the screener.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-58382996401668142332016-02-01T11:20:27.515-08:002016-02-01T11:20:27.515-08:00South Dad, I would just email the person who email...South Dad, I would just email the person who emailed you, and ask if your child's screener met the threshold for the full Cogat or not.<br /><br />Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-91962680675086942712016-01-31T21:06:14.260-08:002016-01-31T21:06:14.260-08:00My (private school) Kinder took the Cogat screener...My (private school) Kinder took the Cogat screener in the Fall and then received an achievement testing date for next week. Does anyone know what I should be thinking about the full Cogat?<br /><br />South DadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-49969056396901515132016-01-31T13:17:55.610-08:002016-01-31T13:17:55.610-08:00In 2014/15, OSPI reported 2 Black/AA students at C...In 2014/15, OSPI reported 2 Black/AA students at Cascadia out of 686 total students, grades 1-5. There were 506 white students.<br /><br />For the same year, Thurgood Marshall had 97 Black/AA students out of 511 total students K-5. There were 228 white students.<br /><br />Prior to the APP split in 2009, OSPI reported Thurgood Marshall enrolled 151 Black/AA students out 440 total students for the 2008/09 school year. There were 18 white students enrolled that year. The following year, 2009/10, post split, the white population rose to 168 students, while the Black/AA population remained steady at 164. <br /><br />I imagine there are very different conversations happening at Thurgood Marshall than at Cascadia. With only 2 black students this year and a self-contained building, there is no evidence of inequality or any kind of divide. But if you are in a building where the majority of the white kids are in the gifted program and the majority of the black kids are in general ed, you can imagine it might be a conversation, at least. "Scolding parents about inequality" is a very derogatory phrase to use for what is certainly an important issue not just in APP, but seems to be gaining traction in our national election cycle. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-67469504048152949402016-01-31T09:30:23.209-08:002016-01-31T09:30:23.209-08:00You won't have a choice between the two - both...You won't have a choice between the two - both buildings are over capacity. I would suspect Cascadia is preferable because it has a singular focus. Stephan Blanford was at a TM PTA meeting recently to scold parents about the "inequality" of the HCC. I don't think that happens at Cascadia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-91706400789675033402016-01-30T20:04:00.485-08:002016-01-30T20:04:00.485-08:00Are there any opinions about the HCC program at Th...Are there any opinions about the HCC program at Thurgood Marshall and how it compares to Cascadia?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-69181047574648555862016-01-30T15:10:59.450-08:002016-01-30T15:10:59.450-08:00Do any people here have kids in the spectrum progr...Do any people here have kids in the spectrum program at Lawton? Are you happy there? <br /><br />I saw this thread from several years ago where there is a lot of frustration with Lawton. http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-is-spectrum-and-what-is-not.html?m=1<br /><br />Has that changed?<br /><br />--JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-62236402858796217742016-01-29T21:09:19.385-08:002016-01-29T21:09:19.385-08:00Momof2 and HWMom, thank you so much for the additi...Momof2 and HWMom, thank you so much for the additional insight into HWK8. Much appreciated!Kennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-2301337853900330762016-01-29T17:07:42.170-08:002016-01-29T17:07:42.170-08:00Ken,
We started at HWk8, and moved to Cascadia. Ap...Ken,<br />We started at HWk8, and moved to Cascadia. Apparently walk to math used to be 2 years ahead, but now it is just one, which mattered for our child. If you can be active in the pta and involved, you can be fairly assured of good teacher assignments, but there is a lot of favoritism. I wouldn't count on it otherwise. The staff at Cascadia is much more consistent, and stronger from what I have seen. I did not find there to be much more science than Cascadia, but perhaps there is in the older grades. The new building is going to be amazing, however, and the community is very energized about the school. I prefer the relief and ease of knowing my child has appropriate academics, but it is a personal choice. Many AL families stay very happily.<br /><br />Best of luck,<br />Momof2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-15552644667359789012016-01-29T16:09:26.438-08:002016-01-29T16:09:26.438-08:00Thanks so much. That's very helpful informati...Thanks so much. That's very helpful information. Does the bus service also apply to the Spectrum/Advanced Learning schools?<br /><br />--JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-18895060512754944462016-01-29T14:32:43.651-08:002016-01-29T14:32:43.651-08:00John, your child will get yellow bus service to a ...John, your child will get yellow bus service to a pathway HCC school.<br />Your pathway school can be found here:<br />http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Programs%20and%20Services/Linked%20Schools%202015-16_Elementary.pdf<br /><br />Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com