tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post7795945648831736552..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: IB vs IBxAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-62022103777872919402015-11-16T12:33:49.368-08:002015-11-16T12:33:49.368-08:00As a current IBx student, I personally am an advoc...As a current IBx student, I personally am an advocate for the program. I am in my first year of IBx as a tenth grader, and I am finding it quite manageable. It is definitely a rigorous program, but most definitely not unreasonable. I am currently able to manage a part-time job and athletics while maintaining a 4.0 GPA and still having time to spend with family and friends. I know many IB seniors who are very busy between college applications and The IB course load. I am still in the early stages of the program, but at this point I feel that is is highly beneficial to have the senior year available for college applications and additional courses, free from the rigor and stress of IB. <br /><br />As for people concerned about math courses, I myself am in an SL Math class, and find it plenty challenging, being a English person myself. However, my close friend, who is most definitely a math person (she was on math team all through middle school) is taking HL Math as a tenth grader and is finding it satisfyingly difficult. <br /><br />As for English, I agree that the middle school courses definitely need improvement. Being highly advanced in English myself, I can't directly speak to this, but that is definitely an area for improvement. <br /><br />-Current IBx StudentCurrent IBx Studentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-71488608194407113652015-11-16T10:08:53.798-08:002015-11-16T10:08:53.798-08:00Diploma Candidate Extended Essay oral presentation...Diploma Candidate Extended Essay oral presentations are scheduled at Ingraham on Thursday 11/19 and Tuesday 11/24 at 7 PM. Meet in the library and then chose which small group to attend. The students began work on the papers last spring (in theory at least!) and turned in about 4000 words at the end of October. Presentations are 10 minutes each with 5 minutes for Q&A. Topics are all over the place (from music to math, from psychology to physics) and give a good indication of what the IB program is all about. I'll try to post an assortment of titles after the presentations happen so you can get a sense of the range.Maureennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-43899812969706139642015-11-02T19:22:38.044-08:002015-11-02T19:22:38.044-08:00I'm a little late to this discussion but with ...I'm a little late to this discussion but with an IBX kid (now a senior), I would hate to see the IBX option go away. It is not for all HCC kids but having the option of IB or IBX is a good balance. My kid is not overly organized but did well in IBX (with a few rough patches) and is enjoying the more flexible Senior year. The colleges we have talked to are impressed with the IBX curriculum. With a Second kiddo, currently in 8th grade, I really hope Ingraham keeps the IBX option. 2 graduating cohorts (one this year) does not provide enough data for such a significant change as eliminating the HCC pathway (IBX). Signed- Very Happy IBX ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-11284866661278842472015-10-30T00:20:35.441-07:002015-10-30T00:20:35.441-07:00My kid was at TOPS K-8, and, I think had exception...My kid was at TOPS K-8, and, I think had exceptional writing prep. She also had tested into APP in an earlier grade (though not for 9th grade because of 7th grade math MAP scores.) I'm glad we didn't appeal her into IBX. IB has been challenging, but almost perfect. Extended Essays were submitted tonight! About 4000 words of high level analysis. .. these kids will be so ready for college! Maureennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86224417324549978172015-10-29T12:42:55.979-07:002015-10-29T12:42:55.979-07:00The need to strengthen writing may be partly assoc...The need to strengthen writing may be partly associated with developmental age, but I'd argue it's more a result of the crap writing instruction they've had up to that point. Highly capable 10th graders are more than capable of writing well if they can get a strong foundation in middle school. Which they can't, in SPS, without supplementation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-56987255537612678702015-10-29T11:49:10.799-07:002015-10-29T11:49:10.799-07:00After having one child do IBX, I urged her younger...After having one child do IBX, I urged her younger sibling to stay on the regular IB track. My perspective is that MOST "gifted" students will do better to start the IB program in 11th grade. <br /><br />1st: The IB curriculum is VERY rigorous. I saw too many smart IBX 10th graders "bomb" out because they lacked the emotional maturity and time management to handle the load. The issue was maturity, NOT about how smart they were. <br /><br />2nd: I've seen few IBX students get much benefit out of finishing the IB diploma early -- especially compared to the cost in terms of stress. Two students in the first cohort used it as an opportunity to graduate early. A few more had meaningful internship that helped them focus their career interests. But many just took classes.<br /><br />My younger child used 10th grade year to dig into school activities, strengthen writing (which is the skill most closely associated with developmental age) and grow up a bit -- while IBX friends seemed to mostly spend their time being stressed. Taking one IB class in 10th grade provided a good level of challenge. <br /><br />And regarding whether the early IB diploma pays off in college admissions: last year both IB and IBX students fared about equally in terms of where they got it. What mattered more was the students grades and extra curriculars, not when they got their IB diploma.<br />Mother of MS and HS studentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07192578077719327787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-83588874885570206882015-10-23T02:59:09.348-07:002015-10-23T02:59:09.348-07:00Michael Rice: I definitely don't dismiss AP St...Michael Rice: I definitely don't dismiss AP Statistics. It's a valuable class; one of my kids took it at Ingraham and my other kid is taking it at his school. My point was just that IBX kids who are strong in math would also like something more challenging, such as Math HL, in 10th grade. Bruce Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13889440013826088099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-62260783492418439312015-10-23T00:01:12.072-07:002015-10-23T00:01:12.072-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-92026328942871333132015-10-22T21:46:05.723-07:002015-10-22T21:46:05.723-07:00Honors Pre-Calculus
AP Calculus AB
AP Calculus BC
...Honors Pre-Calculus<br />AP Calculus AB<br />AP Calculus BC<br />AP Statistics<br /><br />Anything higher would have to be taken off campus.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-71221513811323936482015-10-22T20:55:30.193-07:002015-10-22T20:55:30.193-07:00HIMS Mom, what is the most advanced math sequence ...HIMS Mom, what is the most advanced math sequence Garfield offers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-72423150082721459462015-10-22T17:59:23.518-07:002015-10-22T17:59:23.518-07:00Fair enough, HIMS mom!
GigiFair enough, HIMS mom! <br /><br />GigiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-48693782729402627132015-10-22T17:53:59.332-07:002015-10-22T17:53:59.332-07:00Actually there are currently 20-25 eight graders t...Actually there are currently 20-25 eight graders taking Algebra 2 at JAMS. So I'm not sure I would call them true outliers. <br /><br />I do hope they can map a good pathway for these kids. And as HIMSmom mentions, in the future there will be more kids in this situation, not less.<br /><br />-JagMamaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-23017034385749582332015-10-22T15:49:44.346-07:002015-10-22T15:49:44.346-07:00Gigi, it's probably true that the pathway is r...Gigi, it's probably true that the pathway is rigorous enough for the "average" HCC student. For a kid coming in taking Geom or Alg 2 as a freshman, I agree with you. For a kid coming in taking Calculus, I'm not so sure. Probably for some, and probably not for others. Four years devoted to high school calculus and stats seems like a lot. But who knows, maybe the extra breadth and rigor will keep those kids satisfied anyway. <br /><br />Re: outliers, I fully understand that HCC cannot be expected to do much in the way of serving extreme outliers--and nothing I am advocating for re: the math pathway would have been anywhere near sufficient for my own child, trust me. I'm not operating under a belief that HCC should have provided an appropriate math pathway in our case. I am, however, a firm believer that HCC should also be able to serve HCC students who are SOMEWHAT more advanced than their HCC peers--because there's a wide range of abilities even within HCC, right? While the typical HCC student may enter high school ready for Geometry or Alg 2, there seems to be an increasing number taking Alg 2 in 8th grade. And some of those would have been ready for even more, and sooner, had it been available.<br /><br />As Ingraham grows as an HCC pathway school, I suspect it will see more and more students who need a bit more in math. It's my hope that there will be good options for those kids who are somewhere between the "average" HCC student and the extreme outlier. A move away from IBX seems likely to impact those kids the most.<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-3402267214615429772015-10-22T15:03:43.550-07:002015-10-22T15:03:43.550-07:00Students can take 4 HL classes though, so for stud...<i>Students can take 4 HL classes though, so for students who want to take an HL math and a science - that is possible.</i><br /><br />Possible, yes, but probably not advisable.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-82951459812291881142015-10-22T13:45:06.230-07:002015-10-22T13:45:06.230-07:00I didn't know until recently that HL LA and HL...I didn't know until recently that HL LA and HL social studies are required to be 2/3 HL classes. Students can take 4 HL classes though, so for students who want to take an HL math and a science - that is possible. <br /><br />HIMS Mom - I get the sense from reading your posts over time, that your child may be a true outlier in math. There are kids who are good at math and then there are kids who ARE GOOD AT MATH! This is neither here nor there, but I don't want people to think the math pathway is not rigorous enough for the "average" HCC student v. an "outlier" HCC student. My apologies if I'm calling this wrong. I think the pathway seems very reasonable and plenty rigorous for a kid coming in as a freshman taking Alg II or even calculus. But then my kids got their math genes from their dad!<br /><br />GigiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86028503704855091142015-10-22T12:42:47.913-07:002015-10-22T12:42:47.913-07:00I think you just clarified a concern, HIMSmom. Wit...I think you just clarified a concern, HIMSmom. Without an IBX pathway, some HCC students would be without a clear math pathway. They might be left with the choice of leaving their cohort to follow the IBX pathway (if allowed) in order to advance in math, or stay with their cohort, but be left with fewer math options. How many students are on this pathway? One class at HIMS, one class at JAMS, and WMS? After students split between IHS and Garfield (if those are the choices...) it's maybe one full class?<br /><br />anon@11:34Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-2357992910990502015-10-22T12:14:56.089-07:002015-10-22T12:14:56.089-07:00@ Rosie Reader, I'd say a rigorous and challen...@ Rosie Reader, I'd say a rigorous and challenging exam doesn't necessarily mean there isn't also a lot of repetition of material over a 4-yr period, nor does it mean it prepares the kids for more advanced college math classes. An exam can be demanding in different ways. <br /><br />@ Anon at 11:34, agreed. Kids who really want an IB diploma should have solid math options available. But my point was that for some--not all--very strong, motivated and passionate math kids, the IB math options might not be enough. If you do the program 11th-12th grades, you'll be looking at IB Math HL (2yrs) as your most rigorous option. Since it covers Calc AB and BC type material as well as stats, no matter what you do in 9th-10th is likely to be fairly repetitive. There's not a great option for getting a fast-moving math sequence for the strongest math students on the typical IB timeline.<br /><br />If you do an IBX version, you'd at least have time for a more challenging class your senior year, after you're officially done with the IB program. There will likely still be some repetition or slow progress for the IBX students who take Alg 2 in middle school along the way, but not as bad as on the IB timeline. <br /><br />If I were pushing for the strongest math pathway for IBX students, I'd probably push for this:<br /><br />9-PreCalc/Trig (probably too slow) or AP Calc AB (would need to waive prerequisite)<br />10-IB Math HL (probably repetitive for those who took AP Calc AB)<br />11-IB Math HL 2nd yr<br />12-IB Further Mathematics or something like Mutlivariable Calculus via online or Running Start<br /><br />But I don't see many options for a suitable math pathway for advanced students if they're on the traditional IB timeline, do you?<br /><br />HIMSmom<br />12-Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86068053303552631522015-10-22T11:34:06.369-07:002015-10-22T11:34:06.369-07:00HIMSmom, the IB diploma program requires taking 3 ...HIMSmom, the IB diploma program requires taking 3 SL and 3 HL classes, one of which needs to be math. When would they take the online classes? They have to take IB math in order to get the diploma. Also, online classes should be the last resort, and may be fine for a motivated student (that can afford it), but most students need to take a class at school. Discussions around IB/IBX need to plan for the varying math levels of HCC students. They may not be able to serve outliers, but they should, at a minimum, have a reasonable plan for the students taking Algebra 2 in middle school.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-58303910765243995682015-10-22T11:33:01.965-07:002015-10-22T11:33:01.965-07:00I would love to hear from students who took HL Mat...I would love to hear from students who took HL Math, or from Mike Rice. I have always heard it is an incredibly rigorous and demanding class. I proctoroed (or, in IB terms, invigilated) that exam last May, and unlike every other IB exam I ever invigilated, not one single student left early. Every student took every moment they had on that said to me that it was incredibly demanding, which is consistent with everything I've heard about HL Math. RosieReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509678140588070623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-74813960251609751512015-10-22T11:14:02.820-07:002015-10-22T11:14:02.820-07:00I think one issue is that the Algebra 2 offered in...I think one issue is that the Algebra 2 offered in middle school is not equivalent to the Algebra 2 honors class at IHS. The honors class covers more concepts, at a higher level, in order to prepare them for IB math. Some HCC students struggled in the honors Algebra 2 class. It requires a very good algebra foundation that not all students have (especially if they've learned Algebra primarily from Discovering Algebra and CMP).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-73029224218319506822015-10-22T11:09:32.545-07:002015-10-22T11:09:32.545-07:00Btw: I'm gearing up to do a fall math thread f...Btw: I'm gearing up to do a fall math thread fairly soon now. Also if you'd be willing to email me @HIMSmom I'd love to have an offline conversation.Benjamin Leishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-52642631301342269482015-10-22T10:50:41.064-07:002015-10-22T10:50:41.064-07:00One additional thought: The pacing above is likely...One additional thought: The pacing above is likely to be frustrating for very strong math students. Pre-Calc doesn't really need to be a whole year, and IB Math HL will cover a lot of the material in Calc AB and AP Stats. Redundancy and repetition can be good for some kids, but not others. (Note: the IHS catalog says kids need PreCalc, but maybe they let them skip it and go straight into Calc as 9th graders?) Regardless, the IB Math HL will entail repetition of whatever they've already taken.<br /><br />For a very advanced and passionate math student who is motivated and learns well independently, you might also consider outside options. Online honors-level courses (e.g., those through Johns Hopkins CTY and Stanford EPGY program) can be pricy, but we found the depth and rigor to be unmatched by anything we've seen in public schools. And you can start taking college-level courses in middle or high school if you're ready. <br /><br />HIMSmom<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-24492878379385951812015-10-22T10:32:25.358-07:002015-10-22T10:32:25.358-07:00I would think they'd still offer the 2-yr IB M...I would think they'd still offer the 2-yr IB Math HL class even if they dropped the IBX, so a student taking Alg 2 in 8th grade might do the following:<br /><br />9- PreCalc<br />10- AP Calc AB or AP Stats<br />11 - IB Math HL<br />12 - IB Math HL (yr2)<br /><br />If they keep the IBX option, you could just move the IB Math HL course up a year, then fill in with AP Stats or some additional Calculus (to be able to pass the AP Calc BC exam) in the senior year. Or possibly IB Further Math, if the offer it.<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-78618455087965737442015-10-22T10:31:37.992-07:002015-10-22T10:31:37.992-07:00There is math, but without IBX it seems the option...There is math, but without IBX it seems the options zig zag through the math progression, which possibly forces some repetition in the later years and creates a big jump for a 9th grader, unless I'm not understanding the options. A possible progression, based on current class offerings, could be:<br /><br />9 - AP Calculus AB<br />10 - AP Stats<br />11 - IB math HL<br />12 - IB math HL<br /><br />And what if an advanced math student wants to opt for HL in biology, not math?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-83666444241413280882015-10-22T10:05:49.848-07:002015-10-22T10:05:49.848-07:00I am wondering that, too. My 6th grader is taking ...I am wondering that, too. My 6th grader is taking algebra- does the move away from IBX mean two years without math if she goes to Ingraham? Argh, this was the plan(for her to go to Ingraham), but am I reading this right? That's hard to swallow for a math-y kid.<br /><br /><br />SMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com