tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post7995223711228654577..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Open threadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-13557917913505415172013-06-06T16:06:55.073-07:002013-06-06T16:06:55.073-07:00Can we really call it a "june surprise" ...Can we really call it a "june surprise" when it was known that Hamilton would be overcapacity with the incoming class for this September and that school can't take portables? The 4 neighbourhood schools that feed it can be redirected elsewhere-- this is their school; and besides, Eckstein and Whitman are both full and both have more than a dozen portables each. And, salmon bay is full too-- so there is no relief anywhere. Holding onto the 5th grade APP class is not good, fair, or appropriate, but, Lincoln is the only building with space. (it's not like West Woodland has any room to keep their 5th graders for an extra year).<br /><br />But, unlike BF Day, our 5th graders already get and have gotten plenty of chance to socially mix it up as there are already more than 100 of them, and, they'll ballon to probably 150 for next year. <br /><br />The kids for whom my heart truly breaks are the 5th grade SM4 children who can't get into Hamilton. The special education children were already told they have to go elsewhere, to middle schools that don't have an existing program for their highly specialized needs. Those parents are frantic. It is so sad. Those parents were told not to worry, that it would be built, that teachers would be hired... But it is worrisome for them as they work counting on going to the Hamilton program with its excellent teacher who has built up a really strong program for these special learners.<br /><br />So, maybe the APP six grade will get into Hamilton this September, maybe it won't, but to me, this isn't a surprise. We need to assess the near-term and long-term capacity realistically, and recognize that we all, meaning everybody in the district, whether you're at the Jane ADdam's campus in the next couple of years or at the Boren building in West Seattle or in the shambles that is Arbour Heights, we all have to make due with the facilities component of the district but advocate for the educational content and experience regardless of the building.<br />-it sucks but...<br /><br />In the north, the district is out of middle school seats. And, it is only going to get worse until Jane Addams is truly available as a comprehensive and Wilson Pacific is built. So, it's years away, so the priority for Lincoln APP should have been to build a consensus around strategy of these next few years. We should focus otow hat is possible and preferable given the limited options, and demand, like each community, the rigor and curriculum delivery andAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-57846456067650747322013-05-31T08:17:14.285-07:002013-05-31T08:17:14.285-07:00Our child's class had MAP testing on the same ...Our child's class had MAP testing on the same day as the EOC. Ugh. Is that an unavoidable consequence of high student numbers and limited computers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12841937669439178402013-05-29T21:56:05.293-07:002013-05-29T21:56:05.293-07:00Scrawny and CCA, that was funny. I want you guys o...Scrawny and CCA, that was funny. I want you guys on myth busters. Anyway here is the USGS link that my daughter went to after watching one of those über quake movie as she had questions I couldn't answer:<br /><br />http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/megaquakes.php<br /><br />armchair scienceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12504777762475377912013-05-29T17:41:01.095-07:002013-05-29T17:41:01.095-07:00Scrawny Kayaker.
My undergrad degree is in Geologi...Scrawny Kayaker.<br />My undergrad degree is in Geological Sciences, and grad degree in Earth Sciences. What I stated is what I was told by professors whose specialties are in Earthquakes and Volcanos. I did not google or quickly search anything. I said decades overdue because I do not know exactly when the last quake on the Seattle Fault was, I am not a Seismologist, just that it is long overdue for one. Each fault has a different interval for its frequency of earthquakes, for example, if a fault usually quakes every one hundred years, then any span of time LONGER than one hundred years means that much time overdue. The longer the fault is overdue for a quake, the more pressure is built up inside the earth requiring release, so the estimated power of the next quake there is revised upwards when more time has passed.<br />Now I suppose it is possible that your "quick search" which I am assuming is from the web denizens, could be giving you more accurate info than what I was taught by people who have worked and done research in the field, and taught and published papers in scientific journals on the subject. They could all be wrong and Wikipedia is right. And it is also possible that all members of our House of Representatives will wake up tomorrow and agree to everything President Obama suggests, and all will hold hands and sing Kumbaya together. Anything is possible, right?<br /><br />CCA<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-54856160611910567602013-05-29T12:41:34.518-07:002013-05-29T12:41:34.518-07:00Also, you can't say we are overdue by "se...Also, you can't say we are overdue by "several decades." It's been 300 years since the last Big One. We could have a megaquake tomorrow, or not for a thousand years. The probabilities on any given day in that range don't change rapidly.<br /><br />That said, I have been meaning to upgrade my earthquake kits...ScrawnyKayakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-33823877018251799012013-05-29T12:06:53.328-07:002013-05-29T12:06:53.328-07:00CCA...I want some of whatever you've been smok...CCA...I want some of whatever you've been smoking! There has NEVER been a recorded earthquake >10 on the Richter scale. A quake greater the 11 would be at least 200 times more powerful than the Mag. 9.0 off Japan in 2011. A quick search on this suggests that it's physically impossible to have quakes over 10 due to the limiting strength of rocks. Can you cite any legitimate geologists who have published these "expected" predictions you're stating, or is this just all straight out of your can?<br /><br />No doubt a local quake is something we should worry about, but a good old Mag. 7 right under the city would be bad enough without resorting to kookery.ScrawnyKayakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-17942744985092737402013-05-29T08:42:01.000-07:002013-05-29T08:42:01.000-07:00I have to second Mom of 2,
I think it is time for ...I have to second Mom of 2,<br />I think it is time for many of the posters to stop vilifying APP parents and get down to the business of curriculum improvement. We have attended both Gen Ed and APP. We chose Gen Ed elementary school because the math program at our school (via waiver) was far superior to the APP district math. I have seen diverse and committed parents and teachers in both realms. In APP middle school (HIMS) we are finding the APP curricula lacking in rigor. This is mostly the fault of poorly chosen district curriculum - especially in math and science. It doesn't matter if your kid is working two grade levels above age level when the entire curriculum is weak. And the Gen Ed population suffers from similarly low expectations. We found the APP students who had attended APP elementary school to be less well prepared in math than our gen ed kid. That's pathetic - don't you think? So the APP parents are perfectly justified in demanding accountability from the district. <br /><br />Yet when HIMS APP parents lobby for some of the changes that other schools in the district are successfully implementing (such as waivers to teach rigorous curricula) - they are called entitled. I would be interested to hear if WMS APP parents have similar concerns as their program is more established. Are WMS parents as disappointed as many of the HIMS parents I have encountered?<br /><br />-Ready for curriculum changes<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-24214298516324250802013-05-28T21:56:07.516-07:002013-05-28T21:56:07.516-07:00As someone whose son went from an extremely divers...As someone whose son went from an extremely diverse, 50% FRL school to Lowell/Lincoln, I can appreciate that some people think that the Lincoln APP world is much more privileged and less diverse. However, many families at Lincoln come from some neighborhood schools and/or private schools that are much more privileged than the APP program and they experience the APP program as a "step down" in financial backing and parent involvement. It's good to remember that our perception about this is relative.<br />Mom of 2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-31738050765051861882013-05-28T19:16:11.746-07:002013-05-28T19:16:11.746-07:00Sheesh,
A lot of your post seems to be setting up...Sheesh,<br /><br />A lot of your post seems to be setting up straw men to be knocked down, so perhaps you're not really interested in the other point of view-- but, just in case, here's mine!<br /><br />As a parent with one child in APP and one in general ed (yes, there are a few of us), I am perpetually amazed by the different culture and tenor of the parent groups in the two programs. The attitude of many APP parents strikes me as very entitled and, yes, in somewhat of a bubble. Despite the fact that APP is a world of real plenty compared to schools outside its gates, many in APP really speak as if they are the victims. <br /><br />Granted, SSD's notoriously poor planning, screwed up priorities, ridiculous mandates, etc. present all of us with much to struggle for on behalf of our kids. It's a bit wearying, however, when APP parents seem unwilling to admit what a privileged realm it exists in within our District and instead go overboard complaining about the raw deal APP gets.<br /><br />I would invite these parents to step out into the much more racially and economically diverse (ouch-- I said it!) general ed world, where it is obvious almost right away that most parents have far less to contribute in terms of time and money. There are lots of good things happening in those schools too though and, thankfully, very few people complaining that they are being victimized by the District.<br /><br />In brief: it's a matter of being tone deaf.<br /><br />-- There you have it<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-4445484259317276922013-05-28T18:26:42.050-07:002013-05-28T18:26:42.050-07:00Sheesh. -
I don't think the issue is that you ...Sheesh. -<br />I don't think the issue is that you can't ever complain if someone has it worse. I think the issue is that it is very easy to get the impression, based on comments on this blog, that Lincoln APP only thinks of itself and demands better for itself without regard for any other program, school, population, etc. The comments are rarely thoughtful with respect to a broader perspective. It comes off as very me, me, me, me. Yes, we should complain. But we should also strive for solutions that would are broader and less self-serving. I get the very real impression that Lincoln would throw the rest of the district, APP and not APP, under the bus if it meant something better for LIncoln. I don't believe that's the opinion of most Lincoln parents, but it seems to be true of the most vocal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-78414248226171816612013-05-28T18:22:06.113-07:002013-05-28T18:22:06.113-07:00Thanks, Anonymous. That is worth a full thread fo...Thanks, Anonymous. That is worth a full thread for itself. I just put one up, "<a href="http://discussapp.blogspot.com/2013/05/app-services-will-be-offered-at.html" rel="nofollow">APP services will be offered at additional sites</a>".Greg Lindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216403000599463072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-5530742687647801702013-05-28T18:21:50.427-07:002013-05-28T18:21:50.427-07:00Of course you can voice your concerns out loud, bu...Of course you can voice your concerns out loud, but be prepared for the boomerang. People did with some suspicions about the older student population. Personally, I would suggest taking the concerns about juvies and molesters to the principal, not at this blog. Why? Because you still have to be aware of what you put out even anonymously. Can't be thin skin about it if some folks find it unkind and a bit NYMBYish. In truth, most of us chose to be anonymous here and what "facts" or opinions offered should be looked at with a jaundiced eye. And differing POVs only help to bust the bubble, insularity perception offered by some Posters. So have at it.<br /><br />51bitesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-7611604016265133282013-05-28T18:15:50.907-07:002013-05-28T18:15:50.907-07:00Amusingly, the link to the presentation in the ema...Amusingly, the link to the presentation in the email I got (sent to the APP @ Lincoln community) doesn't work. Does anyone have a link that does?<br /><br />- June SurpriseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-26397340519986551402013-05-28T18:10:46.200-07:002013-05-28T18:10:46.200-07:00Dear Hamilton International Middle School communit...Dear Hamilton International Middle School community,<br /><br />To meet the needs of our growing enrollment, Seattle Public Schools is considering boundary changes for the 2014-15 school year. We will not change any boundaries or assignments for the upcoming 2013-14 school year.<br /><br />In anticipation of these changes, we are having conversations about our current schools and programs with our stakeholders. On Wednesday, district staff will present several options to the School Board for early consideration, including for Hamilton International Middle School. We recommend increasing the number of highly capable (APP) elementary and middle school pathways, with guaranteed assignment, to increase access and bring services closer to where students live. If approved, this means APP services will be offered at additional sites – beyond Hamilton and Washington Middle School.<br /><br />Again, these are all preliminary conversations. We will host five community meetings this fall to consider boundary changes and get feedback from families, staff and community members. There will be plenty of time for review and community reaction. You can view the district’s initial presentation to the board here. This initial review of program placement will be presented from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. on Wednesday, May 29 at the John Stanford Center for Educational Excellence. This will be a committee discussion. There is no public testimony at this meeting and no votes will be taken.<br /><br />Our goal at Seattle Public Schools is to ensure equity, access and opportunities for all students. We are planning for the future of our district, and any changes moving forward starting in the 2014-15 school year will help meet this goal. We also want to maximize walkability and minimize disruptions by aligning new boundaries with current attendance area boundaries, when feasible. The School Board will ultimately vote on the school assignment boundary changes on November 20, 2013.<br /><br />If you would like to give feedback on these early recommendations, please send an email to growthboundaries@seattleschools.org<br /><br />We look forward to working with each of our school communities to make sure any changes are rolled out smoothly and to ensure we have a thoughtful, strategic and equitable plan for schools, programs and services.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />José Banda<br />Superintendent<br />Seattle Public SchoolsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-56192115599910526682013-05-28T17:34:48.198-07:002013-05-28T17:34:48.198-07:00I don't understand this bizarre belief that I ...I don't understand this bizarre belief that I associate solely with Seattle (I am a native of Seattle btw). We can't comment on something because others have it worse....?!?? Can someone explain to me how not saying anything improves things for anyone? I know the district would love it if everyone, in any school, would just shut up.<br /><br />Dare you complain about lunch food? Don't you care about the starving in China, you self-centered pig? You'd like safety improvements to your building? What about those children in Africa who don't have a school building at all, you self-centered pig? Want a decent math curriculum for your child? What about those other kids who still have the terrible curriculum you are trying to leave behind, you self-centered pig?<br /><br />So, those of you who believe in this line of thinking, how does keeping silent improve things for kids elsewhere in the city? <br /><br />This is some magical thinking that I don't understand. Maybe it's that we are supposed to be so grateful for the little we have that we aren't supposed to say anything. <br /><br />I would like to see education for every child, all over the district improved. I don't understand how not saying anything about my child's education, which is what I know best, hurts anyone. I would hope that yet another school dropping the horrible EDM and CMP would send a strong message to the district.<br /><br />-sheeshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-15763503807129332332013-05-28T17:19:22.274-07:002013-05-28T17:19:22.274-07:00Agree with you TM. There's a bubble, especial...Agree with you TM. There's a bubble, especially on this blog. Little less so on SSS. That's the thing about blogs. They gonna attract more like minded folks. You expressed an opinion that goes against the grain and Ouch! But good on you for saying your piece. I get what you are saying. My kids are looking forward to HS for more social/academic opportunities/variety. I am beginning to realize this cohort thing can be a bit of a double edge sword for me as well.<br /><br />51bitesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-33696755772760144452013-05-28T17:02:10.139-07:002013-05-28T17:02:10.139-07:00I agree that it's embarrassing to read the pos...I agree that it's embarrassing to read the posts from Lincoln parents on this thread. It is as if we have no idea about what's going on at any other school in the district, APP or otherwise. Take a deep breath, people, and get a grip. <br /><br />We have the APP-only elementary school that we as a group demanded and now we're getting a math curriculum determined to be the best for APP students. And yet we still come off at poor, poor martyrs to the cause when there are many other schools in the district in much worse shape facilities and curriculum-wise. <br /><br />Wish I could move southAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-40962324061649714272013-05-28T15:37:41.576-07:002013-05-28T15:37:41.576-07:00TM Math-
To add to questions being posed to you: ...TM Math-<br /><br />To add to questions being posed to you: what is stopping anyone from TM, WMS, or either of the high schools from posting here? I don't believe there is any sort of fee or rule preventing their appearance.<br /><br />This is the same complaint I see on the Save Seattle School blog about APP families posting "too much." People can't not post and then complain that they are not represented.<br /><br />Both the APP blog and the Seattle Schools blog only have comments by those who choose to post there.<br /><br />-long-timerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-69436396412904931042013-05-28T15:34:54.053-07:002013-05-28T15:34:54.053-07:00...and this is why some decisions should be progra......and this is why some decisions should be program based, and not site-based.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-43167570291335726642013-05-28T15:08:43.930-07:002013-05-28T15:08:43.930-07:00@TM math
Lincoln 'kicked up a fuss' about ...@TM math<br />Lincoln 'kicked up a fuss' about wanting to change the curriculum like TM did in part because of the perception that almost anything would be better than EDM and in part because, in the absence of the promised APP curriculum, the unilateral change in curriculum at the TM site introduced inequity between the sites of what was once a single program. Lincoln folks would probably have been pretty happy to have what TM was having at that time but clearly there was no interest on the part of the Advanced Learning Dept or the principals involved in consultation/collaboration etc to come up with a math curriculum that would have served the TM general ed population as well as BOTH elementary APP locations. Why is it so funny to you that Lincoln has now assessed, piloted, and decided on a curriculum that happens to be different from TM now? It doesn't mean folks would not have been happy with the same curriculum TM has if that had ever been proposed/introduced back in the day- but since it wasn't and since there was time to explore the options they have come up with one an that may be an even better fit. <br />Maybe the Lincoln and Hamilton parents are just entitled complainers as you seem to imply, or maybe it's because these 2 schools have the most uncertainty, instability, and churn of all them. Anyone can post with issues relating to any APP site on this forum, maybe the other sites just don't have so many issues and provoke so much anxiety among families as these 2 do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-51591976910219345882013-05-28T14:42:14.666-07:002013-05-28T14:42:14.666-07:00Jane - I have no problem with Lincoln choosing a d...Jane - I have no problem with Lincoln choosing a different curriculum from TM. I just pointed out that TM's curriculum was not selected as an "APP math" curriculum, but as a school-wide curriculum. I do find the posts from Lincoln parents on this blog tiresome. Lincoln and Hamilton are 2 of 6 APP schools, yet over the last several years they have dominated discussions of APP on this blog, at the APP AC, on the ALPTF when it existed, and on FACMAC. Reading this blog you would think Lincoln and Hamilton are the only 2 schools with APP programs, or at least the only 2 with issues of curriculum, capacity, etc. (not true). Lincoln parents put up a big fuss when TM gave up EDM - claiming it should have the same math as TM. I had to laugh when it picked a different math curriculum than TM. Why did Lincoln make such a fuss about uniformity last year?<br />-- TM math....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-40843965973998354752013-05-28T14:22:07.568-07:002013-05-28T14:22:07.568-07:00To "TM's math program is not just "A...To "TM's math program is not just "APP math"<br /><br />I agree that the problems with everyday math and CDM are a district-wide problem. I'm a little surprised though by your leap from someone else's question about the Lincoln math curriculum to your statement that Lincoln parents are in an APP bubble.<br /><br />Is your belief that Lincoln shouldn't change math curriculums until the entire district changes curriculums? In which case, I assume you are equally upset that Thurgood Marshall already changed math curriculums? Or are you upset that Lincoln isn't changing to the math curriculum that Thurgood Marshall is using?<br /><br />I am genuinely interested in why you seem to be upset about Lincoln changing math curriculums - when it doesn't seem to bother you that TM, Mercer and many other schools have already changed math curriculums. Or maybe you are equally upset about those schools changing math curriculum as well (your criticism though seems to be specific to Lincoln).<br /><br />Jane <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-38341291006941392282013-05-28T13:54:36.067-07:002013-05-28T13:54:36.067-07:00Just because 2 or 3 people ask questions about the...Just because 2 or 3 people ask questions about the proposed cohoused community does not mean the APP community at Lincoln is in some kind of bubble. That is like 2-3 parents out of around 500 expressing some concern, and not even concern necessarily, just asking for more information. Wouldn't you expect that number of people (or more) at any school to be asking questions about a group that was going to be co-housed in their building, especially with such age disparity? <br />And this is an APP blog, so of course it is APP-centric, and weighted toward issues that concern/affect APP families. Perhaps it does disproportionally cover concerns around Lincoln because this is a much less stable situation than at the other sites. <br />Of course we should have the long-promised APP curriculum (including math), and we should have a district-wide overhaul of the current math curriculum. But the currently we have neither of those things, nor will we in the forseable future. Since other schools have successfully gone ahead and adopted math curricula that better serve the specific needs of their communities, I say kudos to Lincoln for doing the same. <br />None of this is the fault of APP-centric families in an APP bubble - it is the fault of Seattle Public Schools and the Advanced Learning Dept.<br /><br />SniffyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-70946972956387531372013-05-28T13:38:09.342-07:002013-05-28T13:38:09.342-07:00Long timer -- I too am a long timer and I was ther...Long timer -- I too am a long timer and I was there in that Lowell gym when the district promised an APP curriculum years ago. But right now APP = 2 years ahead, nothing more. If math curriculum is a problem district-wide, it should be fixed for all schools, not just Lincoln. Also, there are benefits to having the same math curriculum across programs. At TM, teachers collaborate across programs, for example. Lincoln parents on this blog often post as if they are in an APP bubble, which they are. The string about the medically fragile community at Lincoln strikes me as typical APP-centric commentary. It's embarrassing to be an APP reading comments like that.<br />- TM's math program is not just "APP math. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-29888875350657021042013-05-28T11:25:46.861-07:002013-05-28T11:25:46.861-07:00For those of you new to the APP program, the distr...For those of you new to the APP program, the district promised an APP curriculum as part of the 2009 closures. It has never materialized. There is no such thing as "APP math" because there is no curriculum.<br /><br />-long-timerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com