tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post8296746844615550289..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: What's Next (officially)Andrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-58203439558808728182018-01-03T10:06:12.505-08:002018-01-03T10:06:12.505-08:00Thanks Benjamin. To be clear you are basically say...Thanks Benjamin. To be clear you are basically saying the bubble of kids is so large that Garfield would likely still be able to offer the same classes 4 years from now it has always offered without the (newer cohort of kids) from the north end? <br /><br />That makes sense to me. Garfield has been offering AP classes and a pathway for HC for 30 years. When my neighbor sent her daughter there years ago were far fewer HC kids. <br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-7893082911721120512018-01-02T22:53:10.333-08:002018-01-02T22:53:10.333-08:00You can take a look at the prev. demographics thre...You can take a look at the prev. demographics thread http://discussapp.blogspot.com/2017/12/2017-2018-cohort-demographics.html to get an idea of the new potential numbers at Garfield but in most cases the bottom line is that without the North End, Garfield will settle down to a level which is about the same as it had just a few years ago. There really are that many more HCC students aging up. Benjamin Leishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-87698697639385009952018-01-02T22:45:11.525-08:002018-01-02T22:45:11.525-08:00Not necessarily. I think current 8th graders would...Not necessarily. I think current 8th graders would take a hit. Many 11th graders take AP classes, and classes can be mixed grade. If there are fewer HC 10th and 11th graders, there's a good chance 12th graders would see some reductions in what's available. If the grade-level cohort took classes together then it wouldn't be an issue for next year's freshmen, but with grade mixing and thin cohorts behind them, it's hard to see how they wouldn't feel it somewhat. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-13012075957799343762018-01-02T20:30:21.277-08:002018-01-02T20:30:21.277-08:00So it would really only be an issue for <8th gr...So it would really only be an issue for <8th graders right? Most others would roll up in pretty good shape at GHS. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-46354282887461065962018-01-02T19:43:11.310-08:002018-01-02T19:43:11.310-08:00Garfield may be a great school currently, but thos...Garfield may be a great school currently, but those considering it for current 8th graders should bear in mind that it will be a very different school when those kids are in 11th and 12th grades. The experience of current upperclassmen may not be all that relevant. <br /><br />HCC students currently at Garfield will likely be grandfathered, meaning that there will be a full 4-yr HCC cohort next year--so probably a full slate of advanced classes (barring any losses due to overcrowding, master schedule, and 24-credit issues, that is). The following year there will still be full cohorts of 10th-12th graders, so should be fine again. In two years, things will be getting a little thinner, with full cohorts in 11th-12th, and significantly smaller HCC cohorts in 9th-10th. That may start to decrease demand for some AP classes. By senior year things will really be different, as 9th-11th grade cohorts will all be much smaller, thus demand significantly reduced. All in all, it's hard to imagine that today's 8th graders would have near the same level of advanced class access that today's seniors have. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-43851728868481119282018-01-02T13:50:55.990-08:002018-01-02T13:50:55.990-08:00Thanks for the clarification. I see now that this ...Thanks for the clarification. I see now that this is about the unique case of decision making for current HCC 8th graders, not at he overall pathways discussion.<br /><br />Unclear (but clearer now!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-91429854161897702102018-01-02T10:11:15.550-08:002018-01-02T10:11:15.550-08:00@ Unclear In addition some families of 8th grade s...@ Unclear In addition some families of 8th grade students are considering whether they should keep their kids in the pathway and send to Garfield or remain local. The past year or two many families in the north end chose RHS, BHS as well as IHS. More than ever before, but numbers still cannot compare to the HC peer 9th grade group available at Garfield. It is helpful to understand why they may have chosen those options. I do agree that likely changes to transportation and increased traffic was a big consideration. From some areas of NW for example traveling to Garfield is 1 hour 10 minutes each way and two buses. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-29557846010829789302018-01-02T09:56:18.914-08:002018-01-02T09:56:18.914-08:00With breaking up of current HCC pathways (all to G...With breaking up of current HCC pathways (all to GHS only), given the extreme overcrowding of Garfield, discussion of Garfield is relevant in that many families for many years have chosen this route despite the logistical challenges of making it work (long bus rides, etc) rather than stay in a local program which may not have been a good fit, have curricular options that were in sequence with previous coursework, or have the cohort to make those things work. A move to eliminate HCC pathways altogether will provide uneven offerings, with some students having significant challenges in getting a comprehensive academic schedule put together. A solution one director offered for academic rigor was Aviation High ! - way way far away, and without the bandwidth to really accept many SPS students. I fear it is time to rally and advocate for options to help serve our students best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-15859575335555746322018-01-02T06:37:10.504-08:002018-01-02T06:37:10.504-08:00Not to be rude, but why all this discussion of Gar...Not to be rude, but why all this discussion of Garfield? There is virtually no chance that north-end incoming HCC students will continue to have a pathway to Garfield, with the possible exception of Lincoln area students (many of whom may not even be north end, if they go with a Queen Anne/Magnolia-to-Lincoln version). <br /><br />UnclearAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-57563146874256959762018-01-01T17:58:05.003-08:002018-01-01T17:58:05.003-08:00Not one bus from Hale area. Takes an hour. Not one bus from Hale area. Takes an hour. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-63318703692473519092018-01-01T09:04:22.334-08:002018-01-01T09:04:22.334-08:00But Yes, Garfield is an excellent school and also ...But Yes, Garfield is an excellent school and also overwhelmingly offers many more HC peers than either BHS or RHS. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-61330819411315981142018-01-01T09:00:58.735-08:002018-01-01T09:00:58.735-08:00So Public Transportation from Hale area might mean...So Public Transportation from Hale area might mean one bus. From NW it means two and transfers as bus service was eliminated. Someone had posted stats recently on where HC has enrolled and NW kids choose schools other than Garfield past couple of years correlates with elimination of direct bus service. There were more kids from NW choosing Ingraham I believe than NE in these stats Eric might have posted. Don't know if the NW kids who did not get into Ingraham ended up at BHS or Garfield. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-80610585065777915822017-12-31T12:58:29.448-08:002017-12-31T12:58:29.448-08:00Public transportation, yo.
Public transportation, yo.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-24652954919456232802017-12-31T10:05:52.700-08:002017-12-31T10:05:52.700-08:00I don't see how no one sees the carbon footpri...I don't see how no one sees the carbon footprint implications of a long commute.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-43830536043689238152017-12-30T23:23:12.408-08:002017-12-30T23:23:12.408-08:00Garfield is a great high school. We have a group ...Garfield is a great high school. We have a group of senior friends and a group of sophomore friends. The nearly overwhelming decision was to go to Garfield for both age groups. We live in the north end, near Hale, and have had no major issues. Between shared rides, driving themselves, and frequent use of the bus, the kids make do, because that is what was needed. Honestly, distance has not be a defining issue that affected their decision. My senior has friends in a variety of friend groups, music, academic, theatre, sports all of which draw from the population at large. In many other cities, commutes can be longer (as well as shorter). Essentially, you do what you need because school, is school after all. The overpopulation at the school is the critical need. We see the need to read more, perhaps even more concentrated at schools where more qualified kids will need access to accelerated pathways. However, we did not choose those schools when we had the chance earlier, the larger cohort/group made our decision and has only solidified it while we have been at Garfield. The chances of true being able too provide even an approximation of the cohort and class offerings at every comprehensive high school was something that I expected where I grew up in the country where there was just one high school option. With 19 high schools, seems like that will be an unlikely target to hit.<br /><br />Just like in many other scenarios, SPS needs to develop a mission /vision statement surround education delivery for high school services. And then put into place the true infrastructure that will be needed to support that mission. Trying to rearrange without additional resources, is a disaster in the making, and sad, because the downfall will be the kids who are going through this transition period.<br /><br />Mission visionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-71592990696108490702017-12-29T09:21:43.860-08:002017-12-29T09:21:43.860-08:00@Join us
I also predict there will continue to be ...@Join us<br />I also predict there will continue to be a trend in students opting out of Garfield who live in the north end despite the grandfathering promise if kids have access to IHS, BHS & RHS. The past few years enrollment at IHS, RHS & BHS have demonstrated this trend. I know very few kids in NW considering Garfield at all due to distance. Even kids within IHS neighborhood zone in which parents have commented IB is not a great fit for their HC kid. Garfield is too far with traffic and BHS too full, so they lament IHS is their actual only option. But at least it offers acceleration. <br />NW Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-67612998826429975192017-12-29T09:03:30.691-08:002017-12-29T09:03:30.691-08:00@Join us
I think the commute to Garfield might be ...@Join us<br />I think the commute to Garfield might be even worse for people who live in NW. Bus service was eliminated and the traffic too bad and commute is too long to be a reasonable option. <br />NWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64099902905193882402017-12-28T18:34:33.716-08:002017-12-28T18:34:33.716-08:00The commute to Garfield is no better for us Hale a...The commute to Garfield is no better for us Hale area people, but we have never had another option.<br /><br />join usAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-9501746178935082642017-12-28T13:10:36.297-08:002017-12-28T13:10:36.297-08:00"Note especially Ashley Davies promised the D..."Note especially Ashley Davies promised the Decatur/Cascadia parents several times they would be able to opt between schools if there was space. This promise was NOT honored."<br /><br />burned once, really sorry that you were disappointed, but in all fairness to Ashley Davies, your statement is not correct. We live in the Decatur elementary HC pathway. During open enrollment we submitted a choice application for our younger kid to attend Cascadia instead. We were waitlisted as number 3. The waitlist moved and in August we were offered a seat at Cascadia. We accepted and our Decatur HC pathway kid has been attending Cascadia Elementary since the beginning of this school year. Based on our experience, there were evidently other families who were also able to opt between those schools when there was space available. So that particular promise actually was honored.observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-23006791857017977662017-12-28T13:08:46.633-08:002017-12-28T13:08:46.633-08:00Anon @12:10 answered for me. Yes, that sounds 100%...Anon @12:10 answered for me. Yes, that sounds 100% correct to me. The bar is low, and don't expect much if you opt off.<br /><br />Nothing's Certain Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-77761368515788079612017-12-28T12:43:37.849-08:002017-12-28T12:43:37.849-08:00And yet, staying with the cohort has not exactly g...And yet, staying with the cohort has not exactly guaranteed appropriate services or instruction. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-12755151230919206202017-12-28T12:10:40.428-08:002017-12-28T12:10:40.428-08:00We know the answer to your second question. Curren...We know the answer to your second question. Currently, Garfield and Ingraham fulfill the district's obligation. "Difficult" traffic is not a sufficient barrier. <br /><br />Since services are not strongly defined and every high school offers some number of AP classes good luck proving they aren't served anywhere the district chooses to place them. Its much less protection than some people think. Bear in mind, across the state district's serve kids HC designated in multiple ways including at their local high schools. <br /><br />Those of you who chose to leave the pathway this year and who are in a boundary zone and even more so next year are making a very risky choice. It may turn out ok but that is not guaranteed.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-57337411336222394092017-12-28T12:01:52.516-08:002017-12-28T12:01:52.516-08:00@Nothing's Certain- We have yet to see any fin...@Nothing's Certain- We have yet to see any final proposals for any of the discussed new options. However, if a student opts out of the pathway does not mean the district is no longer under some form of obligation to provide services. The designation follows the student. If the district moves HC students into a school without services from a school where they had access to services/appropriate curriculum, I think there would/could be a legal issue to navigate. Also, some kids live in areas in which access to Garfield is too difficult with our increase in traffic and there is no guarantee of admission to Ingraham IBX. Do they really have choice in this case? <br />JAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-51897079358250065942017-12-27T17:04:24.872-08:002017-12-27T17:04:24.872-08:00My main point was that there is nothing in writing...My main point was that there is nothing in writing saying 10th grade HC students would be able to stay. What Wyeth Jesse or any other staff member said in a meeting notwithstanding. We've seen what that's worth before. <br /><br />On the issue of equity, I agree with you that no student should be sent to a a school that doesn't offer the correct curriculum (although I prefer "an appropriate curriculum"). In fact, I pretty much said that in my comment, which mentioned the need to also serve non-HC students who may need similarly advanced classes. Yes, the legislature has made it clear that for HC students access to advanced and accelerated instruction is basic education, but there are many ways to do this. HC does not mean any particular student is entitled to any particular class, so if you opt out of the HCC pathway school then find yourself later reassigned to a school that has somewhat fewer options, as long as it has enough to meet the requirement (whatever that means) it seems legally ok. A school could theoretically offer no AB or IB classes and still meet the legal requirement, if there were other advanced/honors options. This does not mean I think Lincoln or Hale will do so, but they could. And they should. HC students are not the only ones who need rigor. We have HCC pathways for those who need maximal access to advanced classes. For those fine with a little less access (i.e., those who choose their AA school instead) it doesn't seem like they require more than what will also be sufficient for high performing non-HC students. <br /><br />If the district does make special provisions like you said WJ said they would, that's great for those HC students. It's not so great for others, though--and this is one case in which I think the optics would look especially bad. I am a firm believer in HC services, but I think making a special provision for HC students who decide to opt out of HC pathways now to let them back on later is hard to justify. It would be fairer to let any student petition to stay based on scheduling appropriateness if the reassignment school could not meet their needs. <br /><br />Nothing's CertainAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-46763793610257621292017-12-27T15:45:43.423-08:002017-12-27T15:45:43.423-08:00P.S The way is was explained to me was they are no...P.S The way is was explained to me was they are not exactly grandfathered nothing's certain. They would only remain if it becomes their new linked school. If not they move to their new linked pathway school. <br />JAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com