tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post8403068797633992703..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: Open threadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger135125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-74416171024629798262011-04-04T21:40:44.565-07:002011-04-04T21:40:44.565-07:00The issue of numbers of APP students at other high...The issue of numbers of APP students at other high schools came up during the Ingraham design team process. Principal Floe said that APP students had enrolled at Ingraham and in IB, but they lose their APP status once they do this. So it is challenging for the staff in the schools to know who is/was APP and who isn't/wasn't.<br /><br />About self-contained APP/IB, Helen, I think I was actually the person at the front of the room talking about self-contained at that meeting...up to that point, I had been unaware that some classes would be self-contained, so I was surprised to hear this from other parents! <br /><br />Lendlees on April 1, what you heard about the design team and decision-making about self-contained, etc. is incorrect. Parents on the design team, including myself, expressed some concerns about having self-contained APP classes at Ingraham. It was the staff who pointed to the parent survey results which stated "classes designed for gifted students" ranked second out of the seven in priorities, which they interpreted as a desire for specialized instruction, not just jumping ahead a year. Also, IHS staff felt it was important to have some self-contained APP/IB classes because they would need to condense the normal 2 years of IB prep curriculum into only one year for APP students.<br /><br />I've heard APP parents ask for a true gifted high school program for a decade--all things considered, this is not a bad way to go. The Principal, IB staff, and the AL office genuinely support this model and want to make it work, feel there are already many diverse populations with unique needs in the building, that APP/IB will fit in well and the current model will meet the unique needs of the APP kids. The Ingraham staff have spent many, many hours crafting what they hope will be a really good program. The similar program in Bellevue seems to work well and has raised the bar at Interlake. If there are problems, then things will likely be adjusted down the road. We asked for the staff and parent "design team" to continue to be involved through the first graduating class. <br />StephanieStephanie Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16064313687961012728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-30234879043820919682011-04-03T11:42:26.838-07:002011-04-03T11:42:26.838-07:00I looked up Dorothy's comment about how the RH...I looked up Dorothy's comment about how the RHS principal had no clue how many APP kids there were at Roosevelt. I hope she won't mind my quoting it: http://preview.tinyurl.com/4x2n2t6<br /><br /><em>I always found this irritating as well, how poorly tracked this data is. I think there should be some data on where are all the kids who have ever qualified for APP and/or Spectrum. I asked Brian Vance about the APP kids and he was clueless. Said he knew of two, but those were just two freshmen who had enrolled at RHS after attending WMS. I listed quite a few for him that I knew had qualified or been in the program at some point. He said he would get back to me, but never did. My gut feeling is that there were somewhere between 50 and 100 students at RHS who had at some point qualified for APP.<br /><br />This is the sort of data that is needed for many reasons. As Charlie is pointing out, to daylight the dearth of support for advanced learners in some parts of the city. I think it is also needed to better make sense of HS test data and to better advocate for honors and AP classes to meet their needs.</em><br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-20189456508996960742011-04-03T11:14:43.823-07:002011-04-03T11:14:43.823-07:00I agree that staff don't usually know which ki...I agree that staff don't usually know which kids tested into APP (especially if they went private for middle school), but the larger issue is that most kids aren't tested at all, and we know a lot of kids get underestimated on the CogAT, especially in the early years. There are also many kids who are in the top few percent in some domains but not others, and we know that most students in IB classes at Ingraham now are taking such classes only in their areas of interest or strength, not doing the full program. In contrast, APP students will presumably be taking the full program willy-nilly, regardless of their specific strengths or interests. Add in the age difference, and I think you get a huge potential overlap.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-41451569467338942782011-04-02T20:34:56.899-07:002011-04-02T20:34:56.899-07:00I think people are underestimating the age/grade d...<i>I think people are underestimating the age/grade difference</i><br /><br /><b>none</b>, I'm also an 11th grade parent, do you have older kids?<br /><br />Half of the classes my older kid has taken have been with a majority of older kids. No big deal (in fact better than being with the kids his age.) The only issue I see is with classes that travel (like GHS marine bio or RHS Bridge), that seems a little problematic to me. Unless you mean the older kids are slower because they were not in APP, that is a different issue. (Like having an 11th grader taking algebra because it took them that long to get there.)<br /><br />Re staff 'lying' about APP status of students, I don't think they have any way of knowing. On the Seattle Schools blog, 'Dorothy' reported that the principal of RHS thought there were two, TWO!, APP qualified kids at Roosevelt. Dorothy knew of about a dozen, including her own kid.7th grade parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-49892937248738593012011-04-02T19:28:14.978-07:002011-04-02T19:28:14.978-07:00You have no way of knowing that.
Unless you think...<i>You have no way of knowing that.</i><br /><br />Unless you think the staff have lied about it, I stand by my statement. I would have thought you'd been attending the meetings and asking questions like this (especially since it sounds like you might have interest in the program), but maybe not.<br /><br />I share your concern (as I said) about the possible political/community issues. Much of how that plays out will depend on the attitude of senior staff in the building, and we can only keep our fingers crossed. 9th grade certainly has to be self-contained as planned, regardless, so anyone who is bothered by stand alone classes is going to have that in their head anyway.<br /><br />7th grade parent: I wouldn't be terribly opposed to blending during the 2 IB years, but I don't think it's a no-brainer either. I think people are underestimating the age/grade difference. That's supposed to be a big part of why we have APP, to avoid the need to grade-jump. Some kids handle that okay, but many do not.<br /><br />And as for the different personalities, learning styles and abilities, I think it's a mixed bag, and I didn't (intend to) present that as a Bad Thing necessarily, but something to consider. All in all, I think the district is doing the right thing to begin with because there are already so many unknowns. Only a few short weeks ago, no one knew if enough families would even apply for this program to make it work!none1111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-10111318162043238332011-04-02T17:30:29.056-07:002011-04-02T17:30:29.056-07:00Rather, they are more likely to be highly motivate...<i>Rather, they are more likely to be highly motivated students, who have chosen to push themselves in high school. Neither group is better or worse, but they are different. </i><br /><br />So interesting, I would rather have my APP qualified kid in class with <i>highly motivated students, who have chosen to push themselves</i> than with perhaps less motivated (?) students who did well on a test when they were five or ten. High School seems like a good time to open up the world to the APP cohort as long as the courses offered are rigorous. Why wait until college?7th grade parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-90024082022943651922011-04-02T12:14:36.074-07:002011-04-02T12:14:36.074-07:00When will I learn to copy my comment before hittin...When will I learn to copy my comment before hitting enter? It just got eaten *again*. If it's sitting in the spam folder and eventually posts, I suppose this one will look like a repeat.<br /><br />I wasn't talking about the 9th-grade (or 12th-grade) classes. I can see the rationale for those being self-contained, though I might have preferred otherwise. (The option I'd really have liked to see, though it's probably not practical to schedule, is to be able to do IB over three years instead of two, to reduce the stress.) But a two-tiered IB system seems to me to play into all the worst stereotypes of APP. I think it makes us look really, really bad.<br /><br />I'm not so happy about the way things are set up at Interlake, either, especially considering the glowing puff piece saying how well "de-tracking" had worked there, completely ignoring that they'd imported a gifted program that was promptly siloed off from the rest of the school: see http://www.learningfirst.org/visionaries/SharonCollins.<br /><br />Now, they did do what sounds like some fabulous remedial and motivational work (which is not what I would call "de-tracking," either, incidentally), which all sounds great: I have nothing against that kind of thing. But to say scores have been going up despite more students taking tests, while ignoring the fact that they'd started a new gifted program -- well, ugh. That really kind of smells.<br /><br /><em>Sure, there have always been a few APP-qualified kids that take IB at Ingraham, but the majority are not.</em><br /><br />You have no way of knowing that. In any case, even in most selective schools, most students won't be "APP-qualified." They're still your competition.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-88577858099134166602011-04-01T23:47:05.717-07:002011-04-01T23:47:05.717-07:00Helen,
As a parent of a soon-to-be high schooler ...Helen,<br /><br />As a parent of a soon-to-be high schooler considering Ingraham, I overwhelmingly approve of the proposed blend of self-contained and mixed classes. One of the sad aspects of most SPS high schools, Garfield included, is the lack of "APP-level" rigor in 9th grade. The Ingraham plan attempts to solve that, at least from an academic standpoint. The other part is that the APP kids will be doing 2 years worth of IB prep in one year. Presumably they've already had a chunk of that in middle school, but their classes in 9th will be very different from anything else in the district.<br /><br />The only worry I have is that the staff and/or IHS community might see it in a negative light and unnecessary friction might occur. <br /><br />For APP 10th/11th in actual IB classes, it's a much more subtle and complex question, because the classes, by and large should be at least similar. But a couple things to consider:<br /><br />1) Age differences. Yes, it's just one year, and many kids can deal with that at this age. But all things equal, I'd prefer to have my 10th grader taking classes with mostly other 10th graders. There is a difference.<br /><br />2) It's not something many parents want to talk about, but without question there WILL be a difference in the nature of those classes. Simply because of the different nature of the kids, their educational backgrounds and their natural tendencies and abilities. Sure, there have always been a few APP-qualified kids that take IB at Ingraham, but the majority are not. Rather, they are more likely to be highly motivated students, who have chosen to push themselves in high school. Neither group is better or worse, but they are different. <br /><br />I'm not sure how I would have designed these 2 years, but I think I would have opted for the self-contained model as well, at least for now, to see how it plays out. It's a much, much easier change to blend the classes in the future than to separate them if thing aren't working well. <br /><br />I'm sure the bottom line is that we're going to mimic Interlake's model because we can. It exists, it works, they're helping us, and the timeline was insane on building out this program. Lastly, I have a hard time believing that Interlake's model is terribly wrong, or they would have made some changes over the past 6 or so years.dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-34464290127372410902011-04-01T08:02:40.664-07:002011-04-01T08:02:40.664-07:00Helen-
From what I've heard is that some memb...Helen-<br /><br />From what I've heard is that some members of the design committee completely disregarded the survey results and relied on anecdotal data to push for self-contained classrooms for the APP/IB program.<br /><br />So, you are correct in your interpretation of the survey results, they just weren't used to make some important decisions.lendleeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12555109557702727406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-21765209976700150272011-03-31T20:44:04.211-07:002011-03-31T20:44:04.211-07:00At the APP/IB info night that I attended, I rememb...At the APP/IB info night that I attended, I remember a current SPS student expressing concerns about the silo effect of a self-contained cohort. It was based on conversations he had with a Bellevue student at InterLake. <br /><br />With Garfield, the cohort is at a single school (making it possible to offer some of the advanced classes), but in classes that aren't just APP students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-22244592372717470842011-03-31T16:10:23.471-07:002011-03-31T16:10:23.471-07:00Rats, Blogger just ate my comment. Stephanie, did ...Rats, Blogger just ate my comment. Stephanie, did you mean the survey at http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/documents/APP_IB_Survey_Summary.pdf? Because I didn't see anything on there indicating that parents were especially asking for self-contained classes or even aware of them as a possibility. It simply asked the participants to rank features of a high school experience in importance from one to seven, one of which was "Classes with non-APP students," which got ranked last, and "Classes designed for gifted students," which ranked second to "Rigorous curriculum."<br /><br />At the APP-at-Ingraham meeting I attended on the night before the survey came out, most people hadn't heard that self-contained IB classes were even on the table. There were gasps around the room when I brought the issue up. I don't recall a single person saying they sounded like a good idea. I suspect most folks who filled out the survey had no idea that their rankings were supposed to indicate their support or otherwise for self-contained IB. Especially not the ranking of "classes with non-APP students" -- something has to get put last on this kind of survey, and people had other things on their minds as higher priorities, that's about all you can say with certainty.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-57639508659162803322011-03-31T14:38:17.410-07:002011-03-31T14:38:17.410-07:00There will likely be some changes in who goes wher...There will likely be some changes in who goes where by the time Fall rolls around, and yes, private schools are always an option. There was a hard sell, no doubt, as this is a new program...lots had to be figured out very quickly, and there had to be some evidence the new option would be well-received in order to avoid the forced geographic N/S split. Like it or not, it was on the table. We had to do some hard selling for the optional path when we met with school board members.<br /><br />From what we've heard from parents of younger kids through emails, they are VERY excited about the APP/IB program in the next few years for their kids.<br /><br />As far as who wants the self-contained APP/IB classes, lots of parents do (see survey results), and APP parents have been asking for something like this at the high school level for many years. I personally never thought I'd see it in this district.<br /> <br />The parents on the design team really pressed the issue of self-contained or blended. To strike a balance, the staff at Ingraham and the AL office determined a course progression that involves some self-contained APP classes (which they felt was necessary to deliver curriculum to prep students for IB in one year instead of the normal two years) and many blended classes as well.<br />StephanieStephanie Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16064313687961012728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-74036782340788793322011-03-30T12:17:15.093-07:002011-03-30T12:17:15.093-07:00I know two families that have signed up for Ingrah...I know two families that have signed up for Ingraham that are not going to attend. One is staying at Garfield to keep sibs together, the other, going private. The family going private said there was a very heavy sales job and she felt pressured into choosing APP/IB for her son. Ultimately, the community at the private school closer to home won out. I imagine there will continue to be some attrition as the dust settles, though it may be balanced out by other families choosing to attend APP/IB.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-4688951485463586092011-03-30T11:54:48.900-07:002011-03-30T11:54:48.900-07:00Okay, so math and languages are by whatever level ...Okay, so math and languages are by whatever level you're at when you come in, which is pretty much what we expected anyway. But in social studies and science only second-year classes are mixed, while *no* literature classes are mixed. What on earth is the point of that? Who wants it this way, and why? <br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-26139306249033916472011-03-30T11:25:44.273-07:002011-03-30T11:25:44.273-07:00Sorry about that, Stephanie. Blogger doesn't ...Sorry about that, Stephanie. Blogger doesn't automatically make URLs live. Here, let me make a direct link to the PDF you mentioned:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/documents/APP_IB_course_progression.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/documents/APP_IB_course_progression.pdf</a>Greg Lindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216403000599463072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-83378415607019932482011-03-30T11:10:05.077-07:002011-03-30T11:10:05.077-07:00Argh...looks like links don't post...go to the...Argh...looks like links don't post...go to the Advanced learning homepage, then to new APP/IB option at Ingraham, then click on the link to the 4 year course progression pdf.<br />S.Stephanie Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16064313687961012728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-38066206449729447282011-03-30T11:07:03.546-07:002011-03-30T11:07:03.546-07:00I see the entire link didn't post.
To see the...I see the entire link didn't post.<br /><br />To see the course progression for all 4 years for both APP/IB at Ingraham and Garfield, go to <br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/documents/APP_IB_course_progression.pdf<br /><br />And that should be 8th graders, not 89th graders! Sorry...typing fast...Stephanie Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16064313687961012728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-34308268317380116102011-03-30T11:02:06.366-07:002011-03-30T11:02:06.366-07:00Diversity in APP, or the lack of it:
The Advanced ...Diversity in APP, or the lack of it:<br />The Advanced Learning office sends out letters to underrepresented students who do well on MAP tests, encouraging them to apply for advanced learning testing. The office follows up with these students. Also, information is sent out in multiple languages (I have seen the letters), not just in in English.<br />There are multiple, complex reasons why APP is not more diverse...<br />also, numbers tend to not count all the biracial students.<br />Some Principals discourage their kids of color from leaving their neighborhood schools to go to APP or Spectrum. AL office staff try to address this by going out to buildings.<br />Also consider that many kids of color who do qualify, end up going to private schools such as Lakeside, often on scholarship from what I've heard--hard to turn that offer down...so private schools get better diversity numbers while APP is drained of their students of color. This has happened for years and makes it really challenging to build a critical mass of students of color that would then attract more students of color.<br />I was told that at a recent middle school jazz band competition, Lakeside won, and its band was more diverse that either Hamilton or Washington's bands.<br />Testing defines the program...if the threshold or process is changed to accommodate a broader range of students, know that the nature of the program from what it is now will change.<br />There should be an emphasis on building challenging programs very early on. The district has advanced learning office staff specifically designated to create new advanced learning programs (ALO's and Spectrum) in south end schools for this purpose, also for equity north/south.<br />We do talk about these things at APP AC meetings...I encourage and welcome anyone interested to come to a monthly meeting, also to contact the diversity rep, Roberto Jourdan. Our committee is pretty diverse as well...my mother is Chilean and I have one son who is 2e, also an underrepresented group (I'm starting a parent support group in April for parents of 2e kids in Spectrum and APP), we have parents of bi-racial and african-american kids, asian, my co-chair is east Indian as is the TM rep, etc. We are also concerned with diversity issues.<br />StephanieStephanie Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16064313687961012728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-74131055014469155002011-03-30T10:42:42.588-07:002011-03-30T10:42:42.588-07:00Regarding enrollment in APP/IB at Ingraham, the cu...Regarding enrollment in APP/IB at Ingraham, the current count is 44 students signed up, and they have until September to sign up if they choose. This is an amazingly promising number given issues of music, the fact that current 89th graders have already been to multiple schools with the split. This will be a popular option for some APP high school students, and will likely fill in coming years. <br />We argued/lobbied hard with the Superintendent and the individual School Board members for the Ingraham program to be a choice not a forced assignment.<br />It is great that it will help the overcrowding a little at Garfield.<br /><br />The current plan from the Advanced Learning office and Ingraham is to have some classes only with other APP/IB students, and some classes blended with other students at IHS...this will occur all four years, not just the 9th grade.<br />To see the course progression, go to http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/documents/APP_IB_course_progression.pdf<br /><br />where self-contained APP/IB classes are highlighted in gray.<br />StephanieStephanie Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16064313687961012728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-52484923386099563942011-03-24T17:18:11.570-07:002011-03-24T17:18:11.570-07:00Anon...
There will surely be more than 40 student...Anon...<br /><br />There will surely be more than 40 students in the IB APP program for 9th grade. The first cutoff date was for those that wanted early admission and willing to give up their seat at Garfield. I hear they have over 45 and there are still several weeks left on open enrollment. Parents are still deciding...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-21235346843464175492011-03-23T20:54:56.997-07:002011-03-23T20:54:56.997-07:00here is the link to Advance Learning. The new sit...here is the link to Advance Learning. The new site still takes you to the old site.<br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/index.xmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-86516094763763247612011-03-23T18:13:40.100-07:002011-03-23T18:13:40.100-07:00Does anybody know how to get to the Advanced Learn...Does anybody know how to get to the Advanced Learning page on the new site? I cannot find it anywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-1356956504616778012011-03-22T13:19:09.362-07:002011-03-22T13:19:09.362-07:00I confess that I don't follow sports very clos...I confess that I don't follow sports very closely, so I don't have all the context for that story. But, I did get the gist of it. Thanks.<br /><br />It really has a lot to do with one's perspective and experiences. APP seems less diverse that most South Seattle public schools, but seems surprisingly diverse in comparison to Seattle's private gifted schools. I currently have one foot in each extreme end of the socio-economic spectrum (in a manner of speaking) and I am continually struck by the contrasts - not to mention the chasm that separates the two. I keep finding myself uncomfortable with my class/wealth/status simultaneously with my lack of class/wealth/status.<br /><br />Still, I have to navigate those circumstances to make the best choices for my child and family.ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-83503939529169648492011-03-21T16:37:44.225-07:002011-03-21T16:37:44.225-07:00Thank you Arch Stanton for your analysis. We belo...Thank you Arch Stanton for your analysis. We belong to one of those "minorities" that tend to do poorly on academic charts. We made the decision to take advantage of the advanced learning program for our child. It isn't easy to leave familiar surroundings and faces, but we balance out the diversity question with our home and social life. Our child has grown in confidence and made new friends while keeping old ones. We look at APP as a choice for academic opportunity, but it can be one of personal growth and experience- a step beyond the familiar.<br /><br />There is a wonderful discussion in the NYT sport's section about balancing out opportunity vs. what you give up. It is about Grant Hill and Jalen Rose and their choices as young men and where they are today.<br /><br />http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/<br /><br />Check it out!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-29012645164031162752011-03-20T22:26:11.478-07:002011-03-20T22:26:11.478-07:00@Barefoot:
APP parents, do you have any misgiving...@Barefoot:<br /><br /><i>APP parents, do you have any misgivings about how racially homogeneous the classes are?</i><br /><br />Our family had some concerns about the lack of diversity in the program, but we also had concerns about the ability of our neighborhood school to address our child's academic needs as well as her social needs - realizing that her social needs include both intellect and diversity. On that account, we felt that we were in a better position to supplement diversity while attending APP than we were to supplement gifted learning while remaining in our neighborhood school. Ultimately, you have to decide what is more important to you and what will work best for your child and your family.<br /> <br />If I may be hyperbolic for a moment; do you want to sacrifice your son's intellectual needs out of a sense of social justice? What lesson would he learn from that? Or could you meet his needs via the APP program and demonstrate your priorities by advocating to improve access for underrepresented groups. Which path would impart your values? Which path would be easier or more comfortable?<br /><br /><i>Do I want to consign him to possibly 12 years of having classmates who are not very different from him?</i><br /> <br />It doesn't really answer your question, but this conjures up the dilemma that black families face: whether to make their child a racial minority in the gifted program or an intellectual minority in a more diverse classroom. Either way, it's possible for the child to not fit in. I suppose if your son is especially sensitive to issues of diversity and social justice, he might feel a little out of place in APP (which is more an acknowledgment of the racial makeup of APP than to suggest that APP families are unconcerned with social justice). Let me also add that skin color is an obvious marker, but you may find that APP is more diverse in other areas than you assume.<br /><br />Is your apprehension is more about the values you wish to teach or your own discomfort with your perceptions of the class/status/wealth of APP families. I don't mean to sound accusatory - We've had those feelings and found it helpful to be clear with ourselves as we tried to sort it out. Again, in the end, it need to work for your son AND your family.ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.com