tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post8918641115376013221..comments2024-02-28T22:24:07.299-08:00Comments on Community Forum for HCC (APP) in Seattle Schools: June '18 Open ThreadAndrew Siegelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06830585083467140758noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-64453283703674900132018-07-05T12:44:22.080-07:002018-07-05T12:44:22.080-07:00@Class 20
"If you are upper or middle class f...@Class 20<br />"If you are upper or middle class family at Lakeside with children who don’t fit those criteria, you are far better off to save your money and stick with public HS.Lakeside wants families like this because they pay full fare and are basically, cannon fodder."<br /><br />Umm...small point in which I disagree (the rest of your post IMO is spot on) I am "middle class" (income just under $130,000) and Lakeside offered my kid (for middle) a very generous admission package. Nowhere near full tuition. In fact I believe they offer at least some financial aid for families making up to $250,000. I would call those making over $250,000 "affluent" and not middle class. Although they may not super wealthy like the billionaires. Also, regardless we ended up choosing public HCC program and my kid had a really stellar experience. <br />JKL<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-11680543203850080272018-07-01T15:40:29.948-07:002018-07-01T15:40:29.948-07:00@Seamless, I agree. The kids themselves may be dif...@Seamless, I agree. The kids themselves may be different, thus any of the superficial analyses done by SPS and previous evaluators is not comparing apples to apples. <br /><br />Then there's the fact that they have never looked at the effect of the intervention itself, or the measures used to evaluate it? Is the HCC curriculum appropriate for and designed to meet the unique learning needs of HC students? Not really. Does HCC deliver a curriculum that should even be expected to result in higher scores on grade-level tests, if they are covering above-grade level topics? Probably not. Or would you expect HC students who stay in grade-level neighborhood schools to perform better on grade-level tests, since the material is fresh in their minds and they didn't have to skip material when moving to HCC? Logic says yes. <br /><br />Too bad logic usually loses out in this district. <br /><br />DisAPPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-58800573313543980332018-07-01T13:41:00.402-07:002018-07-01T13:41:00.402-07:00As for the ALTF and HC students who do or do not g...As for the ALTF and HC students who do or do not go into the cohort, my guess is that families are far more likely to switch a student to an HC site in elementary school if the student has a high level of Dabrowskian super-stimulatibilities/overexcitabilities (http://sengifted.org/overexcitability-and-the-gifted/).<br /><br />Austina DeBonte also covers this in her talk "What Parents & Educators Need to Know About Smart Kids."<br /> http://www.nwgca.org/uploads/1/2/0/1/12018395/what_parents_and_educators_need_to_know_about_smart_kids_2018.pdf<br /><br />Teachers and parents would ideally coach and mentor students in learning how to cope with their OEs, not try to change them or pathologize them or punish students for having them. To the extent that behaviors or emotions stem from a kid's wiring, it just doesn't work to attempt to punish/reward the behavior away. When a school is not dealing well or constructively with a child's OEs, I suspect the family is more likely to move the child to HCC.Seamlessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-5796677043229500802018-07-01T12:48:04.448-07:002018-07-01T12:48:04.448-07:00@ Class ‘20, not everyone chooses a high school ba...@ Class ‘20, not everyone chooses a high school based on what advantage we think it will confer in the college admissions process. Many of us choose based on what we think will be the best fit for our student over the next four years. <br /><br />I’m not sure of your point exactly, but if it’s that a fancy private school education is not a golden ticket, I’m sure most would agree—and would have expected that in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-81874992773633222622018-07-01T11:49:24.947-07:002018-07-01T11:49:24.947-07:00Since my last one is out, yay, a couple of things ...Since my last one is out, yay, a couple of things I’ve noted through the years. Having lived through both Lakeside and public school experiences, Lakeside does put out good looking numbers about their graduates and where they end up for colleges. <br /><br />However, if you analyzed Lakeside data, there are far more legacy kids than the average Seattle HS kids, not to mention, a lot of millions which are dropped to pave the way by some of these stupendously wealthy families. There are also quite a few students who are very smart, but their golden ticket is sports. These kids are picked up early by choosy schools. Yes, that means UCLA, Princeton, Harvard, U of Chicago, Northwestern, etc. The draw about these kids is they are not just pretty smart, but round off the school’s volleyball, swim and baseball teams nicely. The other good things about Lakeside is if you look at all the things picky colleges are looking for in their admission, 1st gen, poor, of certain background, religion, etc., Lakeside has already made the cut for these colleges in addition to preparing these students to succeed at elite colleges. <br /><br />That’s why choosy colleges always look at schools like Lakeside. So if you are rich, super smart, sporty and has certain desirable trait (hooks) which colleges are recruiting for in their “holistic”admission process, Lakeside is a great place to be. <br /><br />If you are upper or middle class family at Lakeside with children who don’t fit those criteria, you are far better off to save your money and stick with public HS. Lakeside wants families like this because they pay full fare and are basically, cannon fodder. They make up the core to support the outliers (the ones with the hooks). The bulk of Lakeside families are in this group and find themselves locked out of the crazy admission process to very selective colleges. It wan’t always this way, but the college industry is multi-billion dollars and there is no sign of reform. <br /><br />Lakeside is a great school with some stellar depts such as the humanities and chemistry. Surprisingly, weak in math, life sciences and CS. The students who shine at Lakeside STEM will shine at Garfield or Ballard. Another word, it’s the Lakeside kids who are the strong ones, not the Calc teacher. It does have an attentive college counseling dept. which does a nice job handling angsty parents and students, but Lakeside runs up against quotas of elite schools too. Bottom line, you need hook(s).<br /><br />This is where public HS is an advantage, because Lakeside students are competing against each other in the college admission process and elite schools with finite seats will offer a public HS grad from Alabama (with lesser or comparable record) than to one from Seattle area, and even less of a chance to a Lakeside grad (without all the hooks).<br /><br />Why? For the same reasons many APP/HCC families are experiencing from SPS admin and that is the assumption that smart kids will be ok without special programs for them. The assumption that families are the safety net here and smart kids need less attentiin when it comes to limited budget and resources. But mainly, the goals of admission isn’t to select based on meritocracy, but for all the hooks colleges are looking for. <br /><br />Our family is happy about our Lakeside and public school experiences. It’s still about the individual and what a person makes of the opportunities and about MAKING SMART CHOICES. That’s why elite colleges and higher ed in general, just like corporate America, are relying more and more in consolidating their power base and finances in such opaque and less than consumer friendly ways. It’s why people need to pay attention to college debt and loss of consumer protection and not fall into the very divisive trap public institutions (SPS) and private ones set out. That’s stuff Harvard and Stanford can’t and won’t teach you. <br /><br />Class ‘20<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-14428248831606529292018-07-01T10:23:05.704-07:002018-07-01T10:23:05.704-07:00Those are good questions. As well, ask for data on...Those are good questions. As well, ask for data on WHY those students opt to stay, as well as WHY others opt to leave for HCC. The students may be very different (e.g., those who leave may be more out of sync with their grade-level peers, more socially isolated and more desperately in need of intellectual peers). The families may also be very different (e.g., those with HC kids who stay may be more able/willing to pick up the slack and meet their child’s educational needs on their own time and dime). <br /><br />Differences in schools, as noted by previous commenter, is also important, with factors such as teacher commitment to gifted ed, school demographics, parent volunteerism, PTSA funding, and so on all playing into whether a school has the means to serve such students. If SPS were to analyze HC stay/leave data by school they may find that some schools are more amenable to HC students and some inhospitable (although given the frequency of school leadership and philosophy changes, it may only be possible to see such patterns in more stable schools). Additional factors such as special programs like LI, Montessori, etc. also need to be analyzed separately, as these may provide an alternative to HCC for HC students (e.g., learning in a foreign language may be considered a sufficient extra challlenge or benefit in lieu of HCC).<br /><br />Unfortunately, I don’t think SPS has most of these data, because they continue to not really care to understand what’s going on. Their evaluation person is fine with making blanket statements (e.g., using Cascadia data to represent all HC students), and the rest seem fine (mis?)interpreting results in the absence of key info that nobody has bothered to collect. It’s very unfortunate.<br /><br />DisAPPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-82393495686219324442018-06-30T16:10:06.012-07:002018-06-30T16:10:06.012-07:00Ask for actual numbers. For which schools is the r...Ask for actual numbers. For which schools is the retention rate high for HC identified students? What are the numbers of Spectrum identified students at those schools? Do they essentially have enough of a cohort? Do they offer unique programming? Which schools have the highest percentage leaving and opting into the cohort? <br /><br />As far as "labels" go, our kids have had a handful of teachers and administrators openly disparage HC identified students. The labels were not the problem - it was the attitudes of those who were supposed to be the grown ups. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-76074638014178046182018-06-30T14:53:14.334-07:002018-06-30T14:53:14.334-07:00Copying from the SSS blog Friday open thread 6/29/...Copying from the SSS blog Friday open thread 6/29/18, 6:57 as is relevant here:<br /><br />I’m on the ALTF and Kari’s opening presentation seemed so much that she was directing us to disband the cohort. She started by talking about MTSS, and talked about how many kids choose to stay at their neighborhood schools (hinting that she would soon be telling us how well they perform there), and then spoke disparagingly about “labels.” I felt it was so over the top that I straight out asked her if she was trying to lead us to a foregone conclusion. Because the time commitment we’ve committed to is immense, and if they aren’t even going to pretend that this is nothing more than a dog and pony show, I would rather step out now than 12-18 months from now. She said no, of course, but I hope she tries harder going forward to hold her bias in check. <br />—JvA<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-17039533745114835362018-06-29T11:21:41.250-07:002018-06-29T11:21:41.250-07:00What grade is the student, why is taking the cours...What grade is the student, why is taking the course at school not an option, and over what timeframe would the class be taken? Answer those questions and you may get more useful feedback. Some high schools approve online courses through an Independent Study pathway even if they are not OSPI approved (though probably not Garfield...), and the course then shows up on a student's HS transcript once they get final scores.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-53309073758640652552018-06-27T08:48:07.756-07:002018-06-27T08:48:07.756-07:00@ Seekin Options, are you sure this needs to be vi...@ Seekin Options, are you sure this needs to be via an OSPI-accredited provider? Depending on your student’s plans, it may not—and you may be able to find a better or more challenging course elsewhere. Programs such as CTY and EPGY will generally provide transcripts that you can use for college, and AP test results can also be sent. Plus, Seattle doesn’t require 4 years of high school math, so OSPI accreditation may not matter. Getting a school to recognize the class and move the kid up a level may be the biggest hurdle, but showing a work samples and AP exam results should do the trick. Every case is different, though. Best of luck!<br /><br />Outside MathAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-18805204310625455792018-06-24T11:38:31.141-07:002018-06-24T11:38:31.141-07:00Seeking Options - depending on what grade your kid...Seeking Options - depending on what grade your kid is in, they could do it through Running Start (mine did Statistics that way) or there is a list of accredited providers here: http://www.k12.wa.us/ALD/Providers/ApprovedProviders.aspx<br /><br />We used Accelerate Ed for Geometry in MS and it was fine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-73568236429599738062018-06-22T12:59:25.878-07:002018-06-22T12:59:25.878-07:00Re-posting from the SSS blog:
We are looking for ...Re-posting from the SSS blog:<br /><br />We are looking for an online AP Calculus AB course for next year that is approved by the Washington State OSPI. (I know there is a list of approved providers at the OPSI website.) Does anyone have any experience with their student taking AP Calculus online? Any thoughts or recommendations as to specific providers? Thanks!<br /><br />Seeking OptionsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-14237341751379617892018-06-21T13:37:44.856-07:002018-06-21T13:37:44.856-07:00Didn't they originally say there would be a bo...Didn't they originally say there would be a board member on the ALTF? And why no HCC teachers included on the task force? <br /><br />Whatever the case, I hope one of the first things they do is figure out what they mean by "advanced learning" vs. "advanced learner." Currently, the term "advanced learner" refers to a student who meets certain criteria (the old Spectrum criteria), whereas when the district sends out surveys asking if people want more access to "advanced learning," that's a very different use of the word. The district also sometimes uses "advanced learning" to refer to the AL dept and its programs and services (i.e., Advanced Learners/Spectrum, HC services, AP/IB,/IBX). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-69211325780462276532018-06-21T12:54:06.386-07:002018-06-21T12:54:06.386-07:00Angry Beaver I have heard it's much worse at G...Angry Beaver I have heard it's much worse at Garfield but who knows. It's at every school including the private schools. It also comes down to your kids friend group and your own kid. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-22107615816972794732018-06-21T12:47:51.922-07:002018-06-21T12:47:51.922-07:00Sounds like Roosevelt's principal was on top o...Sounds like Roosevelt's principal was on top of it:<br /><br />http://q13fox.com/2014/03/13/local-principal-sounding-alarm-after-more-freshmen-caught-doing-drugs-and-alcohol/<br /><br /><i>"Parents should definitely educate their kids,” freshman [ ] said.</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-39308604024634429642018-06-20T18:55:35.438-07:002018-06-20T18:55:35.438-07:00Angry Beaver-
Similar situations at Garfield and ...Angry Beaver-<br /><br />Similar situations at Garfield and Roosevelt, not sure about Ingraham.<br /><br />The entire district needs more drug education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-403813060586382502018-06-20T18:46:53.365-07:002018-06-20T18:46:53.365-07:00The only problem with Ballard is the rampant drug ...The only problem with Ballard is the rampant drug use. Weed, booze - even acid are easy to find and it's become something of a badge of honor to partake.<br /><br />Wynkoop needs to get on drug education. Convincing kids to put it off until they move out and are in college. <br /><br />Drive or walk by Ballard on 15th Ave. at lunchtime tomorrow and see the kids standing on the sidewalk vaping and smoking. They can vape weed and nobody can tell the difference.<br /><br />It's a culture of drug abuse and Wynkoop casts a blind eye.<br /><br />Angry BeaverAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-13910774950788796392018-06-20T14:32:43.393-07:002018-06-20T14:32:43.393-07:00I went to a very mediocre public high school in Te...I went to a very mediocre public high school in Texas (great schools rating of 2) with basically no college advising, took no PSAT prep classes aside from what material is offered for free by the ETS, and was a National Merit Scholar/Finalist. The school you go to is not the deciding factor here. <br /><br />#anotherdatapointAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-55930488098872566672018-06-20T10:21:17.265-07:002018-06-20T10:21:17.265-07:00As the cohort continues to fracture, and HC identi...As the cohort continues to fracture, and HC identified students choose Ballard and Roosevelt in increasing numbers (over GHS and IHS), I'd anticipate the NMSF numbers to become more distributed over those 4 schools. Anecdotally, of the families with siblings, there have been many whose oldest chose IBX, but their HC identified siblings did not follow. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-13571826075199743682018-06-19T09:14:27.809-07:002018-06-19T09:14:27.809-07:00@ Moving on " NMS and having 4 like Ingraham ...@ Moving on " NMS and having 4 like Ingraham in 2018 or none at a school means little to me as one small measure of kids at the school or the environment. I don't think a move to Bellevue is needed. Ingraham, Garfield, Ballard & Roosevelt are all really great public schools. The counselors track where many of those kids have matriculated to colleges and which majors in recent years, they are all fantastic and not one is better than another either! Those schools also have alot of great clubs and programs going on that develop excellent skills. We know two HC kids who went to Ballard and are in highly selective colleges and programs. Also, most great colleges and programs are much more holistic now in their application processes. <br />HC parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-37619526604810753492018-06-18T22:21:02.939-07:002018-06-18T22:21:02.939-07:00uh as i said on the ssps blog; psat has a lot to d...uh as i said on the ssps blog; psat has a lot to do with psat prep - not great schools. probably more to do with student to college advisers. 1- <100 is the norm on the east side and private. it is 1 - >400 at ghs. kids have historically been able to punch their own ticket coming out of ghs hcc. not surprising as they have historically <br />had rigor and acceleration (and started out 98% iq and avanced in reading/math). now we will see what it means without rigor.<br /><br />if you want a nms go to lakeside. if you want a great education go to whatever school fits your kid. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-7028698134464028072018-06-18T19:25:10.698-07:002018-06-18T19:25:10.698-07:00There were 4 NMSFs from Ingraham most recent year:...There were 4 NMSFs from Ingraham most recent year: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/27-from-bellevues-interlake-high-among-this-years-national-merit-semifinalists/<br /><br />Ingraham had 11 the previous year, but that year the other schools had more as well. The cut-off was raised.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-17361955800436215972018-06-18T18:06:14.716-07:002018-06-18T18:06:14.716-07:00MovingOn. Before you decide to try to cross a bri...MovingOn. Before you decide to try to cross a bridge, please know that Ingraham had 11 National Merit Finalist, just like Bellevue High. I would encourage you to give IHS and the IB program a long hard look. Michael Ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231362823419529183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-91175942287335646052018-06-18T13:16:00.931-07:002018-06-18T13:16:00.931-07:00Bellevue High School
Long shot: anyone on this b...<br />Bellevue High School <br /><br />Long shot: anyone on this blog able to chime in with experiences about moving out of Seattle to Bellevue specifically to attend Bellevue High School? Or, Interlake HS in Bellevue? <br /><br />Rigor and generalized excellence is what our family is seeking. We wish to explore options to ensure growth in learning, and it appears Bellevue may be the place to do that (<i>one</i> metric: Ballard and Roosevelt each had 0 national merit schools; Garfield had 4; Lakeside had 16. <b>Bellevue HS had 11, Interlake had 27</b>).<br /><br />Considering direction of Seattle public schools (we could cite multiple objective data and curricular lapses), being proactive about moving is all we can (and will) do.<br /><br />There appears to be no equivalent community blog for Bellevue; is there a facebook page or PTSA website? Deeply appreciate your sharing of your experiences. Thank you. <br /><br /><br />MovingOnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4649338642905686469.post-21267898319366224822018-06-18T02:41:51.494-07:002018-06-18T02:41:51.494-07:00nvm - i'm encouraged by the group. fingers cro...nvm - i'm encouraged by the group. fingers crossed. i do see at least 6 no self contained elementary school votes. we will see. glad to not see the board monopolizers (right). <br /><br />Sharmila Williams Community Organization, Equal Opportunity Schools<br />Christine Tang Community Organization, Families of Color Seattle<br />Dominique Daba Community Organization, Rainier Scholars<br />Kari O'Driscoll Community Organization, The SELF Project<br />Jonathan Carroll-Madden HC Student in Seattle Schools<br />Andrew Siegel Parent of a Seattle Schools Student, identified AL<br />Mary Kunce Parent of Seattle Schools Advanced Learner<br />Joanna Noonan Parent of a Seattle Schools Student, identified Highly Capable (HC)<br />Ji-Young Um Parent of a Seattle Schools Student identified HC<br />Ursula White-Oliver Parent of a Seattle Schools Student identified HC<br />Joy Sebe Parent of a Seattle Schools Student identified HC<br />Richard David Bash Parent of a Seattle Schools Student identified HC<br />Valeri Makam Parent of a Seattle Schools Student identified HC<br />Julie van Arcken Parent of a Seattle Schools Student identified HC<br />Laurie Bohm Parent of a Seattle Schools Student<br />Daniela Hall Parent of a Seattle Schools Student<br />Jenny Miller Staff, Indian Education Services, Seattle Schools<br />Rina Geoghagan Staff, Principal at Decatur Elementary<br />Vanessa Meraki Staff, Teacher at Emerson Elementary<br />Nancy Hertzog Subject Matter Expert: Professor, University of Washington<br />Colin Pierce Alternate: Staff, Teacher at Rainier Beach High School<br />Theresa Yeh Alternate: Parent of a Seattle Schools Student, identified AL<br />Kari Hanson Director, Student Support Services, Seattle Schools<br />Stephen Martin Supervisor, Department of Advanced Learning, Seattle Schools<br />Faizah Bradford Coordinator, Department of Race and Equity Advancement, Seattle Schools<br />Wyeth Jessee Chief, Student Support Services, Seattle Schools<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com