Advanced Learning sent out letters to kids with high MAP scores from last spring, encouraging them to apply for APP. Since we're at a NE Seattle ALO school, I'm always curious about how ALO really serves gifted kids. There's a line in the letter that says "ALO schools allow the academically gifted and academically highly gifted to remain in their neighborhood schools and receive our office's support to meet high academic expectations." Is that a new bit of text that might signal new ALO support, or is it old and empty? When I read it I hoped that they were talking about something more than the ALO report card...
ALO means nothing. It is entirely the school's decision exactly what it means.
For what it's worth, we took our kids out of our neighborhood ALO school and enrolled them in APP. All ALO meant in our school was additional busy work for the kids.
We have two APP qualified kids. We left one of them at the ALO elementary school because it was meeting her (and our) needs. At this particular school, ALO meant pull-out for reading/language arts. For our second child, however, the ALO program wasn't meeting his needs and we switched him to Lincoln. Same school - but 2 different kids with different needs.
Also, I agree with the poster at 3:23 who said that what ALO means is entirely dependent on the school. So whether your ALO school would work for your kids depends on both your kids and your school.
Thanks for the replies -- I understand what ALO means and is at my school, sorry if by curious I made it sound like I wasn't familiar. I was just wondering if that wording about "support from our office" was new.
I should add that my school does NOT do pull outs or ability grouping after grade 1, and my curiousity about the phrase was whether it might mean setting some standards -- e.g., use pull out groups if there is a critical mass of kids.
ALO is worth opting into as a formality because it holds a kid's eligibility to enroll in Spectrum or, if applicable, APP in the future. This matters if you want to keep the option of enrolling in spectrum or APP later, especially in middle school. If you don't enroll in ALO, you risk never having your kid test in again. This matters for the handful of schools remaining that have chosen not to include an ALO option. -- ALO matters for AL eligibility reasons
6 HH math: Mine finishes the work in class early and gets a good portion of his homework done as well. Yes, it is very slow and no differentiation for those who need more challenge.
Furthermore, my student was reprimanded for using cross-multiplication. I gave her a long lecture about how she would have to do what the teacher said (Thurik) in her class but do "real math" on the MAP and outside of school and could she handle this - that the school district and the principal give us no other choice and that conforming to a teachers' wishes even when you know it is wrong can be a valuable life experience.
Fortunately, another, braver parent chewed the teacher out directly about not letting the students use math and cross-multiplication is BACK IN STYLE.
Thank you unknown brave parent.
No thanks to the Principal who lets this personnel problem continue unabated.
Actually this teacher is being watched by the principal as evidenced by her FINALLY using the Source and posting daily lessons and assignments etc...this is an improvement over previous years especially for students who are struggling to follow along.
You are right - I noticed that. I was initially surprised that even the band teacher (who is awesome) has a syllabus and grades on the source. But previously the APP math class was an empty expanse - until just about a week ago.
That is serious improvement over last year! So glad to hear at least there is finally some oversight of her. Assignments on the Source would have helped us. -too late for us.
I understand that using the Source is optional for teachers, but is there a way to encourage the other holdouts to start using it?
Another question - is there a curriculum for gym? I'm hearing it has consisted mostly of a run, then freeplay (basketball for boys and badminton for girls...).
Homeroom is a class but is not and cannot be given a grade. Attendance must be taken and tracked for legal reasons which is why there is an attendance entry which auto-generates a report area on The Source.
Hi Greg, North End APP primary parents. We got a letter on Friday from Jose Banda saying: 1. Lincoln is it for the next five years 2. IF BEXIV passes, a single school at Wilson-Pacific is the plan, beginning 2017-18. Regional options are possible later.
So: 1. the debate between the ALL APP Academy and regional schools is over. 2. there is no sibling co-attendance option for North. 3. No kindergarten at APP North. 4. We're talking 900-1000 students in a single elementary school at current course and speed.
Give credit for decisiveness, but this is a pretty profound decision with no process, and there are many, many unanswered questions. Might I suggest opening a thread on this?
Thanks, Ed, sounds like a good idea. Anyone have a link to a copy of the letter? Or more substantial quotes? I'd like to put that in a top level post so people can see the information.
Ed -- The letter does not state the school will be ALL APP. It would be great if Greg could post the whole letter rather than paraphrase. It is important and the devil is in the details. No details were provided about the actual configuration of the schooll. I was stunned to see this decision made with no input solicited from the whole APP community. We are all impacted by these decisions. -- I also read the letter
Here is part of the letter from Superintendent Banda -- would be great if someone could post the whole thing:
Specifically regarding the APP program, I want to provide the following updates:
-APP students will remain at Lincoln for the next five school years, including this year. -If BEX IV is approved, staff recommend moving the current north end APP elementary students to a new Wilson-Pacific building (tentatively scheduled to open for the 2017-18 school year). -Beyond the 2017-18 school year, in addition to Wilson-Pacific we might consider additional locations for APP if enrollment continues to increase or if recommendations to provide additional regional programs are made. That’s why it is important that we build flexibility into our BEX IV plan. -I have also asked the capital planning staff to review options at the interim site to address concerns with the play area and lunchroom facilities.
I was just reviewing the Fall testing session INFORMATION PACKET for Advanced Learning nomination and see that they now allow testing into APP for 8th Grade at Ingraham for the APP / IB program.
Can someone explain the policy for that? Is this because the APP IB is different and there are not distinct APP classes at Garfield?
How does a student enroll in the new APP/IB at Ingraham?
APP 8th or 9th graders currently attending Hamilton, Washington or Garfield may request an assignment to the APP/IB Ingraham by filling out a school choice form during the open enrollment period. School choice forms and information will be available on the Enrollment web page during open enrollment.
Eighth grade students not currently enrolled in APP at Hamilton or Washington may test for eligibility to enroll in the APP/IB Program at Ingraham. See Application Forms for testing due dates.
I think they allowed 8th grade non-APP testing into the IBX program at Ingraham (but not the APP cohort at Garfield) to encourage enrollment. Ingraham IBX was not crowded, even under enrolled at first, though has become popular as the north end APP high school site. When it becomes over enrolled (undoubtedly this will happen when the very large APP classes at Hamilton hit Ingraham IBX), like Garfield is, I would expect they would stop the non-APP testing into IBX for practical purposes, just like they have at Garfield.
When it becomes over enrolled (undoubtedly this will happen when the very large APP classes at Hamilton hit Ingraham IBX), like Garfield is, I would expect they would stop the non-APP testing into IBX for practical purposes, just like they have at Garfield.
I don't think they ever allowed 8th graders to test for an APP spot at GHS.
Since APP kids have a guaranteed spot at GHS, I think it would make more sense to require all kids (APP or not) who want a spot in the IBX program to test for it if there aren't enough spaces. Then they can just take the top 60 kids and wouldn't have to deal with the consequences of random cohort sizes. Random numbers are a problem in IBX because several of the classes are only open to the IBX cohort (unlike the AP classes at Garfield.)
APP parents, do you know if AL will automatically grant you a Cogat testing date if you are *already in Spectrum* and you are going for APP, but your spring MAP scores are below 95%? This applies to several people I know and I believe it sets them on the appeal path from the start, doesn't it? But I'm not sure if they will need to appeal pre- or post-Cogat.
Given the growth in the APP program, there is no way Garfield can absorb all but 60 (or more, if non-APP are allowed to test in to IBX) of the middle school APP populations at both WMS and HIMS. IBX was created to take the pressure off Garfield. And can you imagine the uproar if your APP kid did not test in to IBX? This is not an idea that is workable without creating another APP high school site in north Seattle. And APP does not want a third split at the high school level. IBX will have to take the Hamilton students (big number), and I keep hearing that WMS parents like the self-contained set up at Ingraham for APP, as has been the model for elementary and middle school. Lots of interest from the south brewing. IBX will have to grow beyond 60 students, just as the entire APP program has grown in recent years.
I would hope that AL is not scheduling Cogat appointments for students already in Spectrum that have Spectrum scores, but they probably do since no one is looking that hard.
"WMS parents like the self-contained set up at Ingraham for APP, as has been the model for elementary and middle school. Lots of interest from the south brewing"
Really? I'm in the south and have heard none of that. Only 2-3 WMS students went to IBX this year -- and one of the main concerns was continuing to be in self-contained classes in high school for the 9th grade cohort. I know many high school students that said they were not at all interested in that configuration after middle school.
Assuming that the IBX program is perfect for everyone North is also wrong. That program is not a one-size fits all, which will become more apparent as the population grows.
Keeping both options open for both North/South is a good idea. But assuming all HIMS students should go to IBX (or IBX should have enough room) is not correct in my view. There are only so many IB teachers to go around.
How many kids are enrolled in APP at HIMS and WMS by grade? My memory is that 100 was a good rule of thumb number for the APP cohort size (per grade) at GHS before IBX was created. I don't think IBX should necessarily remain at 60 (or whatever) per grade, but it seems that the kids should be signed up in 30 kid packets given the insistence on keeping non APP kids out of the core classes. Another solution would be to allow single subject qualified nonIBX students into those classrooms.
(There are currently non APP core classes at IHS that have more than 40 kids in them. I'm not sure how big the APP core classes are. )
Re. the popularity of IBX: a 9th grade APP parent told me that a large percentage of the HIMS kids who chose IBX were girls-that it wasn't as appealing for the boys.
"I would hope that AL is not scheduling Cogat appointments for students already in Spectrum that have Spectrum scores, but they probably do since no one is looking that hard."
Whoa. Are you suggesting that it's cheating to take the test more than once (incidentally, it's a different test each time, due to being for a different grade level)? Should the only kids moving into APP in later grades be coming from the regular program (having never tested before) rather than from Spectrum? That seems quite unfair.
To clarify, my question was just referring to Spectrum students with MAP scores below 95 wanting to test for APP--if this would require appeal to get the requisite APP-level achievement scores to take the Cogat, or if the appeal could come after the Cogat?
38 comments:
Advanced Learning sent out letters to kids with high MAP scores from last spring, encouraging them to apply for APP. Since we're at a NE Seattle ALO school, I'm always curious about how ALO really serves gifted kids. There's a line in the letter that says "ALO schools allow the academically gifted and academically highly gifted to remain in their neighborhood schools and receive our office's support to meet high academic expectations." Is that a new bit of text that might signal new ALO support, or is it old and empty? When I read it I hoped that they were talking about something more than the ALO report card...
NE mom
NE Seattle Mom-
ALO means nothing. It is entirely the school's decision exactly what it means.
For what it's worth, we took our kids out of our neighborhood ALO school and enrolled them in APP. All ALO meant in our school was additional busy work for the kids.
-no ALO for us
We have two APP qualified kids. We left one of them at the ALO elementary school because it was meeting her (and our) needs. At this particular school, ALO meant pull-out for reading/language arts. For our second child, however, the ALO program wasn't meeting his needs and we switched him to Lincoln. Same school - but 2 different kids with different needs.
Also, I agree with the poster at 3:23 who said that what ALO means is entirely dependent on the school. So whether your ALO school would work for your kids depends on both your kids and your school.
Jane
Thanks for the replies -- I understand what ALO means and is at my school, sorry if by curious I made it sound like I wasn't familiar. I was just wondering if that wording about "support from our office" was new.
NE mom
I should add that my school does NOT do pull outs or ability grouping after grade 1, and my curiousity about the phrase was whether it might mean setting some standards -- e.g., use pull out groups if there is a critical mass of kids.
-- NE mom
The letters that Advanced Learning sent out last year contained the exact same line.
So I doubt anything new is going on.
Another from the NE
ALO is worth opting into as a formality because it holds a kid's eligibility to enroll in Spectrum or, if applicable, APP in the future. This matters if you want to keep the option of enrolling in spectrum or APP later, especially in middle school. If you don't enroll in ALO, you risk never having your kid test in again. This matters for the handful of schools remaining that have chosen not to include an ALO option.
-- ALO matters for AL eligibility reasons
My child is starting to complain about how slowly HH math is going at HIMS. Anyone else hearing this from their kid?
-HIMS parent
6 HH math: Mine finishes the work in class early and gets a good portion of his homework done as well. Yes, it is very slow and no differentiation for those who need more challenge.
We are hearing this as well.
Furthermore, my student was reprimanded for using cross-multiplication. I gave her a long lecture about how she would have to do what the teacher said (Thurik) in her class but do "real math" on the MAP and outside of school and could she handle this - that the school district and the principal give us no other choice and that conforming to a teachers' wishes even when you know it is wrong can be a valuable life experience.
Fortunately, another, braver parent chewed the teacher out directly about not letting the students use math and cross-multiplication is BACK IN STYLE.
Thank you unknown brave parent.
No thanks to the Principal who lets this personnel problem continue unabated.
-HIMS APP parent
Actually this teacher is being watched by the principal as evidenced by her FINALLY using the Source and posting daily lessons and assignments etc...this is an improvement over previous years especially for students who are struggling to follow along.
You are right - I noticed that. I was initially surprised that even the band teacher (who is awesome) has a syllabus and grades on the source. But previously the APP math class was an empty expanse - until just about a week ago.
-HIMS APP parent
That is serious improvement over last year! So glad to hear at least there is finally some oversight of her. Assignments on the Source would have helped us.
-too late for us.
I understand that using the Source is optional for teachers, but is there a way to encourage the other holdouts to start using it?
Another question - is there a curriculum for gym? I'm hearing it has consisted mostly of a run, then freeplay (basketball for boys and badminton for girls...).
@HIMS
One more thing...homeroom is now a graded class of some kind at HIMS. It's listed as a class on the Source. Does anyone know what is up with that?
@HIMS
What is controversial about cross multiplication?
Just Curious
What is controversial about cross multiplication?
Hahaha. Thanks for the good laugh, intentional or not.
(no, I don't have an answer for you, a whole group of parents should go in together and ask the teacher!)
Homeroom is a class but is not and cannot be given a grade. Attendance must be taken and tracked for legal reasons which is why there is an attendance entry which auto-generates a report area on The Source.
Hi Greg, North End APP primary parents. We got a letter on Friday from Jose Banda saying:
1. Lincoln is it for the next five years
2. IF BEXIV passes, a single school at Wilson-Pacific is the plan, beginning 2017-18. Regional options are possible later.
So:
1. the debate between the ALL APP Academy and regional schools is over.
2. there is no sibling co-attendance option for North.
3. No kindergarten at APP North.
4. We're talking 900-1000 students in a single elementary school at current course and speed.
Give credit for decisiveness, but this is a pretty profound decision with no process, and there are many, many unanswered questions. Might I suggest opening a thread on this?
Thanks, Ed, sounds like a good idea. Anyone have a link to a copy of the letter? Or more substantial quotes? I'd like to put that in a top level post so people can see the information.
Ed -- The letter does not state the school will be ALL APP. It would be great if Greg could post the whole letter rather than paraphrase. It is important and the devil is in the details. No details were provided about the actual configuration of the schooll. I was stunned to see this decision made with no input solicited from the whole APP community. We are all impacted by these decisions.
-- I also read the letter
Here is part of the letter from Superintendent Banda -- would be great if someone could post the whole thing:
Specifically regarding the APP program, I want to provide the following updates:
-APP students will remain at Lincoln for the next five school years, including this year.
-If BEX IV is approved, staff recommend moving the current north end APP elementary students to a new Wilson-Pacific building (tentatively scheduled to open for the 2017-18 school year).
-Beyond the 2017-18 school year, in addition to Wilson-Pacific we might consider additional locations for APP if enrollment continues to increase or if recommendations to provide additional regional programs are made. That’s why it is important that we build flexibility into our BEX IV plan.
-I have also asked the capital planning staff to review options at the interim site to address concerns with the play area and lunchroom facilities.
Started a new thread, "APP at Lincoln for next five years?"
I was just reviewing the Fall testing session INFORMATION PACKET for Advanced Learning nomination and see that they now allow testing into APP for 8th Grade at Ingraham for the APP / IB program.
Can someone explain the policy for that? Is this because the APP IB is different and there are not distinct APP classes at Garfield?
Confused (not yet at the high school stage!)
"APP for 8th Grade at Ingraham for the APP / IB program."
I believe this is for students who are in 8th grade and NOT enrolled in APP.
APP enrolled students do not need to test into the IBx program.
How does a student enroll in the new APP/IB at Ingraham?
APP 8th or 9th graders currently attending Hamilton, Washington or Garfield may request an assignment to the APP/IB Ingraham by filling out a school choice form during the open enrollment period. School choice forms and information will be available on the Enrollment web page during open enrollment.
Eighth grade students not currently enrolled in APP at Hamilton or Washington may test for eligibility to enroll in the APP/IB Program at Ingraham. See Application Forms for testing due dates.
I think they allowed 8th grade non-APP testing into the IBX program at Ingraham (but not the APP cohort at Garfield) to encourage enrollment. Ingraham IBX was not crowded, even under enrolled at first, though has become popular as the north end APP high school site. When it becomes over enrolled (undoubtedly this will happen when the very large APP classes at Hamilton hit Ingraham IBX), like Garfield is, I would expect they would stop the non-APP testing into IBX for practical purposes, just like they have at Garfield.
I am still looking for EOC results on the Source. Anybody else see them yet?
Update on HIMS early release days - they have been reduced to one a month, for a total of 9 early release days, not 20.
From the HIMS website:
HIMS letter to parents
When it becomes over enrolled (undoubtedly this will happen when the very large APP classes at Hamilton hit Ingraham IBX), like Garfield is, I would expect they would stop the non-APP testing into IBX for practical purposes, just like they have at Garfield.
I don't think they ever allowed 8th graders to test for an APP spot at GHS.
Since APP kids have a guaranteed spot at GHS, I think it would make more sense to require all kids (APP or not) who want a spot in the IBX program to test for it if there aren't enough spaces. Then they can just take the top 60 kids and wouldn't have to deal with the consequences of random cohort sizes. Random numbers are a problem in IBX because several of the classes are only open to the IBX cohort (unlike the AP classes at Garfield.)
IBX Watcher
APP parents, do you know if AL will automatically grant you a Cogat testing date if you are *already in Spectrum* and you are going for APP, but your spring MAP scores are below 95%?
This applies to several people I know and I believe it sets them on the appeal path from the start, doesn't it? But I'm not sure if they will need to appeal pre- or post-Cogat.
Given the growth in the APP program, there is no way Garfield can absorb all but 60 (or more, if non-APP are allowed to test in to IBX) of the middle school APP populations at both WMS and HIMS. IBX was created to take the pressure off Garfield. And can you imagine the uproar if your APP kid did not test in to IBX? This is not an idea that is workable without creating another APP high school site in north Seattle. And APP does not want a third split at the high school level. IBX will have to take the Hamilton students (big number), and I keep hearing that WMS parents like the self-contained set up at Ingraham for APP, as has been the model for elementary and middle school. Lots of interest from the south brewing. IBX will have to grow beyond 60 students, just as the entire APP program has grown in recent years.
I would hope that AL is not scheduling Cogat appointments for students already in Spectrum that have Spectrum scores, but they probably do since no one is looking that hard.
"WMS parents like the self-contained set up at Ingraham for APP, as has been the model for elementary and middle school. Lots of interest from the south brewing"
Really? I'm in the south and have heard none of that. Only 2-3 WMS students went to IBX this year -- and one of the main concerns was continuing to be in self-contained classes in high school for the 9th grade cohort. I know many high school students that said they were not at all interested in that configuration after middle school.
Assuming that the IBX program is perfect for everyone North is also wrong. That program is not a one-size fits all, which will become more apparent as the population grows.
Keeping both options open for both North/South is a good idea. But assuming all HIMS students should go to IBX (or IBX should have enough room) is not correct in my view. There are only so many IB teachers to go around.
-WMS Parent
How many kids are enrolled in APP at HIMS and WMS by grade? My memory is that 100 was a good rule of thumb number for the APP cohort size (per grade) at GHS before IBX was created. I don't think IBX should necessarily remain at 60 (or whatever) per grade, but it seems that the kids should be signed up in 30 kid packets given the insistence on keeping non APP kids out of the core classes. Another solution would be to allow single subject qualified nonIBX students into those classrooms.
(There are currently non APP core classes at IHS that have more than 40 kids in them. I'm not sure how big the APP core classes are. )
Re. the popularity of IBX: a 9th grade APP parent told me that a large percentage of the HIMS kids who chose IBX were girls-that it wasn't as appealing for the boys.
IBX Watcher
"I would hope that AL is not scheduling Cogat appointments for students already in Spectrum that have Spectrum scores, but they probably do since no one is looking that hard."
Whoa. Are you suggesting that it's cheating to take the test more than once (incidentally, it's a different test each time, due to being for a different grade level)? Should the only kids moving into APP in later grades be coming from the regular program (having never tested before) rather than from Spectrum? That seems quite unfair.
Helen Schinske
To clarify, my question was just referring to Spectrum students with MAP scores below 95 wanting to test for APP--if this would require appeal to get the requisite APP-level achievement scores to take the Cogat, or if the appeal could come after the Cogat?
Does anyone know if teachers assess students based on MSP scores or do they only use MAP tests scores?
Post a Comment