Recommendations and Next Steps
• Engage stakeholder groups in exploring HCC services and AP/IB course offerings at the high school level
• Study the AP/IB offerings and participation rates at all comprehensive high schools
• Develop an action plan that would detail the required steps to meeting a shared vision for advanced learning opportunities at all SPS high schools
• Integrate changes into 2018-19 SAP in sync with new high school boundaries
link: Board Agenda
I'm looking for more details but to shift the Ballard and Roosevelt students in 2018-2019 to their reference area schools before Lincoln H.S. opens would be a capacity disaster of its own regardless of any programmatic considerations.
Some more thoughts
Currently 3 high schools Roosevelt, Garfield and Ballard are beyond their capacity and straining to handle their student bodies. [We need this year's data to fully quantify the situation] By 2019 Lincoln H.S. will come online as well as the 500 student addition at Ingraham which should relieve a lot of this pressure. As currently framed in the slides it sounds like the staff is attempting to make changes a year earlier. A permanent solution to the 1 year gap would be poor planning since it would shift the capacity problems from Garfield to Ballard/Roosevelt. [We lack this year's data but I assume we're talking 40-60 students ]
Assuming that none of the permanent changes will occur until 2019 when there is more space to make adjustments I still have doubts about this plan. The internal logic of the slides is that advanced learning is in conflict with racial equity. The effect of using reference area schools would only be to further segregation in the districts not improve it.
At the same time the atmosphere at Garfield has ranged from neglect to active hostility towards HCC. Last year the honors classes were effectively removed in 9th grade English and Social Studies. This year there are accounts of failure to schedule core math classes like AP Calculus.
There has also been a steady drumbeat of articles like this latest one below:
I also don't believe the current options of AP/IB/Running Start are a great fit for all Advanced Learners and I think there is plenty of space for brainstorming better curriculum.
Ultimately, I think something needs to be done specifically at Garfield to improve the situation. But I'm not sure dissolving the pathway is the best way forward. Among the issues with this idea are
- The difficulty of monitoring a program at 10 different sites. Given the realities of site based management a coherent, consistent experience is harder to maintain every time we add schools.
- The vastly different cohort sizes between schools. The low number sites will have trouble scheduling sufficient classes and they will likely be smaller. i.e. more expensive. This scenario is very different if you go to Roosevelt versus Nathan Hale for example.
- The monkey wrench this throws into the capacity decisions in the north end. As I last understood Lincoln actually needs imported HCC students to fill the building. In fact, using the voluntary movement of AL parents out of their reference zones is one of the best tools for relieving pressure and filling under utilized buildings.
Alternatives:
The most obvious one is to stay the course. Hold out in all 3 buildings one more year and let the new space come online in 2019. The split of the north end students to Lincoln should relieve Garfield which is the immediate impetus for this change. If Garfield really can't accommodate students next year, we already have a wait list for Ingraham and some space there for portables. It would make a lot of sense to grow the cohort in advance of its new wing especially if its a one time change.
47 comments:
Lakeside's new micro-school opens this fall in lower Queen Anne with two grades - 9th and 10th. Seems like very good timing given this change to SPS HCC pathways.
Lakeside has been great for my former APP kid, and now there are two options. I think the main campus will continue to have more generous financial aid than the new school will, but tuition at the Downtown School is about half that of the main campus ($17.5K).
-former Dragon
Very good timing!
Bring it
I added some thoughts on the situation which I'll update as more information becomes available. I'm not completely certain of the best course but this is my thinking at this point.
Ingraham will have a new building to accommodate 500 more students in 2019-2020, at the same time that Lincoln opens. That will result in 1500 new high school seats available at the same time, which will require a huge boundary change.
Momof2
We are hearing more and more issues with scheduling classes at Garfield for a college-focused program. This is true of world language classes (especially AP Spanish, which hardly anyone was able to get into), but also as to core classes like math and science when taken beyond the minimal graduation requirements. If, for capacity or financial constraints, GHS can't offer students the opportunity for four years of math, science, and world language, it's not really offering a "selective four-year college" program any more. P.S. Other than this issue, we have been pretty happy with the GHS experience.
A permanent solution to the 1 year gap would be poor planning since it would merely shift the capacity problems from Garfield to Ballard/Roosevelt.
I disagree. If they are planning to eliminate the HCC pathway for high school in 2019/20, it actually DOES make sense to incorporate that into the 2018/19 SAP. Phasing it in earlier makes for an easier transition--and fewer transitions for students. For example, if they eliminate the HCC pathway for 9th graders next year, sending them to their neighborhood schools instead, they might be able to start and finish at the same high school. If they wait a year, those students may get pulled to a new school for 10th grade. Making a limited change for the next year would give Garfield relief immediately (based on the 2016/7 numbers they gave, it would reduce GHS 9th graders by 112), and it would spread the pain of absorbing them across all the other high schools. Ballard and Roosevelt would feel it the most, but it would only be about 20-30 extra students each--and that would only be for one year.
One of the biggest issues for me is what they are thinking re: "equity." How are equity and HS boundaries related to HCC? As I see it, the equity issue has to do more with HCC eligibility, not boundaries, so why is this an issue for the SAP? Any changes they make in the SAP re: pathways or no pathways don't have any impact on HCC eligibility, nor do they impact who can take AP classes (since they are already open to all). Is the big concern that HCC students have an option (GHS) that non-HCC students don't have? If so, isn't this because it is legally required that HC students have access to advanced and accelerated instruction, since without that they are not appropriately served? I'm very curious to hear what specific equity problem(s) they think they will be solving via the SAP.
The other big issue is how they will ensure access to a full slate of AP/IB options some schools have enough HC students (and interested/capable GE students) to support them and others don't. How does "equity" come into play in their eyes re: AP classes at neighborhood school. If one school has 5 HC students per grade and another has 50, is it ok for the school with more "demand" to offer a wider range of classes, or is that inequitable? The way I understand equity--and the way I read SPS policy 0030 on educational and racial equity--is that the district would need to suck it up and provide a full slate of AP classes everywhere:
The district shall provide every student with equitable access to a high quality curriculum, support, facilities and other
educational resources, even when this means differentiating resource allocation"
In other words, since HC students need access to more advanced classes ("for highly capable students, access to accelerated learning and enhanced instruction is access to a basic education"), the district needs to provide them. So if the districts decides to move away from a pathway-based, consolidated approach to services in favor of a widely distributed approach to service delivery, they need to bite the bullet and absorb the costs associated with providing a wide range of AP classes even if they are not filled. In other words--and using their own words--they need to "provide every student with equitable access to high quality curriculum...even when this means differentiating resource allocation."
DisAPPointed
We live in Rainier Beach and our two kids are in HCC. Our neighborhood high school is Rainier Beach. I doubt there will be enough kids in HCC with RB as their reference school to create enough demand for access to the same AP classes that kids will get in the North end. That seems to fly smack in the face of creating equity. If it comes to pass that this pathway elimination goes away, we feel pressure to go private so that our kids' can get the same education and opportunities as someone who goes to a high school in North Seattle. Again, not seeing how any of this creates anything but additional inequity within the district.
-It's all about the optics
FYI Somebody posted on the HCC Seattle middle school Facebook page:
"My son and husband went to the meeting today. They say that in no way is it a done deal. Their impression was that just one of the members was proposing this and they realize that such a move would be very drastic and probably not a good idea, even purely financially."
-a parent
Has anyone thought if Ingraham will be able to accommodate all the kids who want to take IB/IBX when it expands in 2019? Do people think it will expand on time in 2019? I am hearing that Ballard, Roosevelt & Garfield are offering kids schedules without core classes like math etc. Does anyone think IB courses/program will also be limited when Ingraham grows?
-wondering
Is anyone talking about making Lincoln the north end HCC pathway school? Because there is a lot of merit to that notion. It's silly that we force north end kids to bus all the way down to Garfield for its watered-down curriculum and principle (and some staff) who are hostile to the very notion of advanced learning.
Hi Richard- I spoke to a parent recently who told me Lincoln was set to be the "bilingual pathway program school". Told me it would be changing from Ingraham?
-K
Sounds plausible for Lincoln to be the language pathway, but then what is the plan for filling 500 new seats at IHS? There aren't enough neighborhood students to fill the school. The death knell has sounded for IBX - will IB expand or disappear in the "re-visioning" of high school?
I'd encourage all parents interested and concerned about Lincoln HS to contact Director Rick Burke and Lincoln Principal Ruth Medsker (formerly of West Seattle HS.) Please note that Medsker is no longer the "planning principal" but actually has been named principal, with zero community input.
rick.burke@seattleschools.org
ruth.medsker@seattleschools.org
--Concerned parent
What came out of the 9/9 revisioning meeting?
Fix AL
@Fix AL-- This is what was posted on the HCC midle school Facebook page:
""My son and husband went to the meeting today. They say that in no way is it a done deal. Their impression was that just one of the members was proposing this and they realize that such a move would be very drastic and probably not a good idea, even purely financially."
-a parent
Can anyone share which board Director thought next year would be a good time to add more students to Ballard and Roosevelt, thereby forcing more students out to running start? And did this same board Director have an idea for what to do for HC students who would attend high schools with too few fellow classmates to create a course offering? I'm curious who this "leader" is because this seems like more than just bad financial planning, this proposed idea is bad capacity planning, bad curriculum planning, all around bad resource planning. Is this a Director who has said they are leaving, so they wouldn't have to attend the meetings when everyone is FREAKING out, or is this a board Director who will be around for a couple more years?
Fix AL
@Fix AL-- You should post your question on the HCC Middle Facebook page where this person posted.
-a parent
Are HCC-AC meetings happening this year?
Hi "a parent",
The HCC Middle School FB group is limited to HCC middle school families. I left the group when my kid became a high school kid. So, info from that group must be relayed by members.
If the north HCC pathway moves to Lincoln, do people on this blog think the cohort from Washington or other HCC south middle schools will be big enough to have one section of advanced classes at Garfield?
HCC/AL is coming to an end because most people here are passive and not active. The district will never, on its own, make smart choices about advanced learning. They will never listen to your good ideas, your piles of evidence, your data. They don't care. And unfortunately, our school board won't help - they're either afraid to take on the central staff or agree with the central staff that advanced learning should go away.
The only way we will get what we want is to organize to demand it. We need to come up with a policy agenda, a few good solutions, and demand it. Never rest until we get it.
We will have to be persistent and have to develop thick skins. We will be called racist. We can't get defensive about that but we also can't accept it as true or let it hold us back. Racial justice and equity will not and cannot be achieved without meeting the needs of every child, and we all know that eliminating advanced learning will mean there are kids of color whose needs aren't being met.
But we have to demand this. If we just accept it passively and come here to bemoan our fate, we're going to continue losing. Let's use this place as a way to discuss how we can organize and win.
NW HCC
From a purely transit/commuting standpoint, I don't understand how Garfield makes sense as a destination for HCC students from throughout the city. It's a LONG commute in the same direction as rush hour traffic for just about everybody. From that standpoint Ingraham would make more sense for north of the cut students at least in that students would be traveling against the flow of downtown commuter traffic.
No crazy commutes for kids!
When I checked a couple of years ago, Garfield and Roosevelt were both listed as top 10 schools in WA state, and were ranked nationally. While Roosevelt is still in the top 10, Garfield is no longer even ranked at all in the state or nationally.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/washington/districts/seattle-public-schools/garfield-high-school-21149
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/washington
Roosevelt is still in the top 10, but Garfield is out. I know these rankings aren't all-important, but this seems like a pretty huge change in a short time. Is anyone else following this, or could I be mistaken?
-Seattle Parent
@ Seattle Parent, like all the rankings, the US News and World Report rankings are based on specific indicators that factor into their calculations, so a lot just depends on their methodology. I don't know if there have been big changes at Garfield re: how students are performing compared to the rest of the state, or in graduation rates, but there probably HAVE been changes in the number of 12th graders taking AP classes, and that's one of the factors in the rankings. As things get more crowded at Garfield and seniors are pushed into Running Start for their senior year, that might mean fewer 12th graders taking AP classes. It sounds like Garfield is more focused on providing basic ed classes, and is not as interested in providing all the AP classes that higher achieving students might need/want.
FYI, the US News website outlines their methodology, if you're interested.
That's interesting- Well what about Ingraham then in which many students finish IB in 11th grade (IBX)? Ingraham also does not offer AP courses. Are they listed? I would not give that much weight to the rankings if that is the case.
In addition, I have just heard about the empty schedule issue due to overcrowding at Roosevelt, Ballard & Garfield. Has this been an ongoing issue? A friend's daughter just graduated this past year from Garfield and apparently she took 9 or so AP courses. People need to start asking administration at these schools what the plan is if students who want AP courses are increased.
Will they be able to house them and have classroom space (portables) to offer more sections of AP, or need to send them out of the building to running start?
- another parent
- Looks like some SPS schools (Ballard, Garfield, Ingraham) took themselves out of the ranking process for some reason. All these schools were top schools when ranked previously. I doubt much has changed. I am guessing Bellevue schools rank higher as it seems they do not create boundaries and programs intended to mix economic or racial diversity ex. mix low income students with middle class etc. Something to keep in mind that rankings are not everything.
-LK
While Bellevue has some option High Schools, the large ones like Bellevue High School, Newport etc. definitely have boundary attendance zone just like in Seattle.
Anonymous on Sept. 15 at 8:08 am wrote: That's interesting- Well what about Ingraham then in which many students finish IB in 11th grade (IBX)? Ingraham also does not offer AP courses.
Actually, Ingraham offers AP Statistics (I have 129 students in 4 sections this year), AP Calculus (3 sections this year) and AP Computer Science (1 section this year).
@Michael Rice-- Thanks. I knew Ingraham offers a few AP courses, but primarily focus is IB. According to what previous poster stated, the rating is based upon number of AP courses taken & passed senior year etc. That is why I would not give much weight to the rankings. Some schools do not fit their rating criteria which is probably why they are unranked.
"While Bellevue has some option High Schools, the large ones like Bellevue High School, Newport etc. definitely have boundary attendance zone just like in Seattle."
Did not say they don't have boundary attendance zones. The top schools listed on the report if you notice have very low F&R lunch like anywhere from 1-6%. They also have very little diversity other than Asian & White. 1-2% African American for example. Compare diversity & F & R lunch to Seattle schools. In addition SPS intentionally bus advanced learning kids (tend to be white, asian & middle class) to low income schools. I don't see evidence of programs intended to diversify beyond affluent & middle class Asian & White kids in Bellevue.
-another parent
@Michael Rice-- I thought most students take IB courses at Ingraham? Are cost of your students comprised of IBX students taking these AP courses as seniors? Are there also 10th grade (pre IB) students in the classes?
-Ingraham bound
@Michael Rice-- Sorry typo...meant most of your students...
-Ingraham bound
If you check the US News rankings methodology, I think it said something about not getting IB data that year, so that might have removed Ingraham from consideration.
Someone suggested that Garfield might have taken itself out of the rankings for some reason, and that it had been a top school before and that probably hasn't changed. I don't think that's accurate. I don't think they removed themself from the ratings process, but rather they just didn't do well. The ratings methodology may have changed. The focus is on doing well for all students, and Garfield didn't do well re: college readiness index.
If you want to hypothesize about what the rankings mean, it's good to read the
Methodologies
"I don't think they removed themself from the ratings process, but rather they just didn't do well."
@Methodologies-- No, Ingraham, Garfield & Ballard are alllisted as "unranked". West Seattle in contrast is ranked at #37. In past years Ingraham, Ballard & Garfield were ranked highly (in top 10 or top 15). I doubt much has changed. The same high schools seem to rank highly year after year.
- Ingraham bound
@ another parent, unfortunately I think it's highly unlikely that many SPS students will be able to take 9 AP classes anymore, despite what happened in the past. Not only does there seem to be more energy directed toward limiting options for high-achieving students (in the name of closing the opportunity gap), but the implementation of Core24 requirements will likely mean some big changes for SPS. While the district had done a horrendous job of planning for this and is way behind schedule, it's looking likely that they will go to some sort of bizarre schedule that will make it logistically impossible to take as many AP classes. It sounds like more time will be devoted to advisory periods, and less time spent in actual classes. If the also go to a trimester schedule, AP classes will all need to be concentrated in the first two trimesters (meaning you'll need to take some core classes as non-AP in order to have things for T3), or they will be 3 trimesters long at eat up more of your available slots (so you have to take fewer). Oh, and for capacity reasons SPS is considering eliminating the HCC pathway for HS and having all go to neighborhood schools, which means the demand for AP will be spread out and in some schools not sufficient to justify many classes. But since one of SPS's key concerns in doing this is equity, they may force limits on what any school--even those with high AP demand--can offer. Hard to say, but worth paying close attention to all these moving parts.
I don't see any sign that there's political will to provide more AP classes, so I wouldn't count on today's freshmen being able to graduate with more than a handful.
HSsoon
P.S. I disagree that they did not do well so are not ranked. College readiness index of West Seattle High School ranked #37 is 22. Garfield is 49.6, while Woodinville (ranked 9th) is 48.5. Garfield has always been top 10 and college readiness stats are similar to top 10.
Garfield, Ingraham & Ballard also have much more F& R lunch than any of the top 10 high schools listed. They also have more racial diversity than most of the other Eastside schools which are majority Asian & White.
These schools have been opted out of rankings for some reason. That is why it states "unranked".
-Ingraham bound
You're right, mostly. It looks like they didn't opt out, but there were pieces of data (state test scores) not available so they were excluded. Maybe it has to do with SBAC opt-outs during this requirements transition period, so rankings may be available again soon.
My bad,
HSsoon
AP Stats consists mostly of seniors who are either in the 2nd year of the IB diploma or already have their IB diploma. There are also seniors who are not in the IB diploma program. There are also juniors who are either 1st or 2nd year in the diploma program. I have only a handful of sophomores. I think there are more sophomores in AP Calculus, but I don't know for sure. Just like in IB, there are not barriers to entry.
@HCsoon-- "Oh, and for capacity reasons SPS is considering eliminating the HCC pathway for HS and having all go to neighborhood schools, which means the demand for AP will be spread out and in some schools not sufficient to justify many classes"
A parent and Garfield student who attended the meeting said that idea was not very popular. I had been proposed by one board member. It was also deemed too expensive.
As far as core 24, how does this affect number of AP courses offered? Sorry, but have no idea what this change means. Can you please explain further?
-K
@Hcsoon-- " If the also go to a trimester schedule, AP classes will all need to be concentrated in the first two trimesters (meaning you'll need to take some core classes as non-AP in order to have things for T3), or they will be 3 trimesters long at eat up more of your available slots (so you have to take fewer). "
Also, I had thought this was dismissed and principals objected as was not considered a viable idea?
-K
@ K,
Interesting to hear that they (the rest of the board?) didn't like the idea of eliminating the HCC pathway in high school. Did they discuss other options, since they clearly need to something? The slideshow that was part of that meeting made it pretty clear that downtown staff favor that option as the capacity solution, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Were any decisions made on this, or was it more of a discussion and people need to keep paying attention? Unpopularity among students and parents is not usually enough to get staff to not do something if they have their little hearts set on it...
Re: Core 24, the new 24-credit graduation requirement doesn't necessarily limit AP options, but it likely does if the district decides to go to a 3x5 (3 trimesters of 5 classes at a time) schedule to deal with it, as initially recommended by the 24-credit task force. I wasn't aware that principals objected and the idea was dismissed... Are you sure? Has there been any official announcement? Is there any indication that the district is dismissing the task force's recommendation and moving forward on considering other options instead--and if so, what options? Who exactly is engaged in this effort? The 24-credit task force's recommended 3x5 schedule is still listed on the task force page, with no indication the group has been reconvened or replaced or anything, so it's hard to know where things stand. Did SPS decide that since this ill-conceived 3x5 recommendation wasn't a good one, they might as well just give up and never address the issue? That's kind of how it sounds.
If we don't move to a 3x5 schedule, I do wonder how the move to add HS advisory periods will impact AP classes. Look at Nathan Hale's schedule, for example. They have a "reading" period in each day, plus "mentorship" and "support" periods on W and Th. All total, a core class gets 210 minutes of instruction per week (3 40-min periods and one 90-min). Garfield added advisory periods this year (did all the high schools?), and apparently it resulted in a pretty large reduction in minutes per class compared to last year. Will these reductions make it harder to complete all the material that needs to be covered in an AP class? Will some classes be less feasible (e.g., classes that require labs, which may be logistical challenges with shorter periods most days, unless one lab per week is enough). It's possible the reduced number of minutes in each class won't negatively impact AP classes, but it's something I hadn't really considered before. Maybe some AP teachers out there have insights they can share?
HSsoon
@HS soon,
Sorry, I did not attend the meeting. I am repeating what someone stated who posted on the HCC Middle Facebook page. Her son & husband went to the meeting. I assume there will be minutes posted from the meeting.
Regarding the 3x5 schedule, parents asked this question to two principals when we attended open houses at two high schools last year. Neither principal was in favor. Therefore, I assumed it was not a done deal.
-K
@HS soon,
This exactly what the parent posted " My son and husband went to the meeting today. They say that in no way is it a done deal. Their impression was that just one of the members was proposing this and they realize that such a move would be very drastic and probably not a good idea, even purely financially."
Other than that no further information to share. Minutes should clarify it the idea was dismissed. I was not under the impression this was a staff proposal, but a board member proposal. It makes no sense for staff to suggest it as a "capacity solution" as you stated as they have no room to send many HCC high schools kids back to neighborhood schools.
-K
I was not under the impression this was a staff proposal, but a board member proposal. It makes no sense for staff to suggest it as a "capacity solution" as you stated as they have no room to send many HCC high schools kids back to neighborhood schools.
I suggested it's a staff proposal because (a) I know that JSCEE staff started looking into this idea several years ago; and (b) staff usually prepare the slide presentations, and the language no this one seems pretty biased in favor of pathway elimination.
As for whether or not its a capacity solution, I think it's debatable. Clearly a few neighborhood high schools don't have room to take in these HCC pathway students at present, but this is all part of a SAP revision and new HS boundaries that are coming. We have x number of students to be spread over y number of schools, and if we're going to have sufficient capacity with the opening of Lincoln and the expansion of Ingraham, we should have plenty of space for everyone. It's just a matter of who is where, and they can re-draw boundaries and revise pathways in many different ways to redistribute students. They wouldn't send all the HCC students back to neighborhood schools with existing boundaries--there would be new boundaries that presumably made room for them and better distributed students across all campuses.
That said, I think it's a horrible idea overall. But they are clearly seeing this as tied to capacity issues (primarily Garfield), in addition t equity.
HSsoon
@seattle parent & Methodologies:
This is from last year 2016 when Garfield & Ingraham (& Ballard) were also ranked. Roosevelt was 6 same as this year, Garfield 7, Ingraham 9. Ballard also ranked well if i can recall, not in top 10 but 11th? The stats for the school are the same as far as college readiness etc. This year they opted out of rankings.
"US News and World Report
SPS High Schools Rank in U.S. News and World Report's Top 10
Posted on 05/31/2016
photo of US News and World Report logo
Ranked in the Top 10
Three Seattle Public Schools high schools are being named among the top of the 2016 U.S. News Best High Schools in Washington State.
According to U.S. News & World Report, Roosevelt High School ranks #6 (#332 in national rankings), Garfield High School ranks #7 (#532 in national rankings), and Ingraham High School ranks #9 (#681 in national rankings).
Rankings are based on everything from results on state proficiency tests and math and reading proficiency to student graduation rates and how well-prepared students are for college-level coursework.
- researcher
I wonder if they will send all the HCC kids back to their neighborhood schools, and manage capacity by redrawing HS boundaries as part of opening Lincoln.
So tired of speculating. Could they just get on with whatever they have planned so parents can make informed choices?
I had heard the board dismissed this idea at the last meeting that discussed this option, as too expensive, not feasible etc. I also heard it was not a popular idea, only one board member had supported. I guess we will know more soon enough.
-waiting to hear
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