Again? Wow. Every few years, this happens. Frustrating.
I don't understand the motivation. APP doesn't cost more. There's strong evidence the cohort model is more effective if your goal is educating every child. And it's working well, don't fix what isn't broken.
There's this misguided view that eliminating APP somehow improves Seattle Public Schools, but no explanation of how that occurs. Eliminate APP, ???, Profit!
Benjamin I heard otherwise. That they want to keep the cohort HCC model, but shrink the number of kids who qualify using a 1% instead of 2% cognitive threshold amongst other proposed changes.
So crisis averted. Staff doesn't like HC as it makes it really hard to predict where students are going year to year. Overall they want no choice and easier enrollment projections (lord knows they need help with that). Everyone can read the same books in the same class. ell/2e/FRL/AL/HC - MTSS to the rescue.
What was the outcome of this meeting? On a different blog Melissa Westbrook posted comments (made by Wyeth Jesse) that state among other things the school district's desire to keep an HCC cohort for 1%.
An ALTF survey is being distributed informally via Facebook. Document says it was created within UW. Feels odd answering not knowing how info will be used. Makes me hesitant to participate. Also no way to verify you are actually an HCC family. Seems like anyone could submit fake feedback.
I have an 8th grader at Jane Addams and until the last week assumed that Lincoln would be our choice for high school. Is the assumption that this option will disappear as Advanced Learning is being dismantled? We live in the Roosevelt assignment area, but many of my kid's friends live in the Hale area and have been eager to stick together by attending Lincoln next year. Ultimately, even if there was one more year of HC pathway at Lincoln would it be worth preferencing that as by the next year it would only be an attendance area school? Would they move kids or just keep 2-3 years of HC kids together and is there any benefit to that? Are we better off sticking with our neighborhood school and making the best of it? I fully realize that Roosevelt has as many AP classes and advanced offerings as any school out there, so we are lucky.
Also, how will this affect boundaries if HC students are no longer considered in that plan? Would the Lincoln boundary need to grow as those students are no longer part of that? (In which case, we may end up getting redrawn to Lincoln as we are pretty close to the boundary!)
I am having a difficult time keeping up with where to find reliable sources of information about this. Every few days something new seems to be announced on some facebook or blog site which makes things challenging when trying to plan ahead. We have not thought seriously about private school, but now wonder how serious the district is about eliminating honors and AP classes at any high school. It's hard to predict if my student would be ready for Running Start and I feel like my they will really miss out on their teen years by busing up to a community college rather than being able to participate in clubs/sports/music at a high school with friends.
Embrace joy! Celebrate the good!! Enjoy the excellence of our public school students!!!
When: Thursday October 24th
Time: 7pm
What: “Side by Side” concert of the Roosevelt High School & Seattle Symphony Orchestras
Place: Roosevelt High School in the RHS Auditorium
Cost: FREE
Who: Everybody is welcomed to attend!
The concert will begin promptly at 7pm. The concert will only be an hour: one piece performed by RHS Symphony, one by the SSO, and then our combined performance of Berlioz Symphony Fantastique movements 4 and 5. Lee Mills, Associate Conductor for the Seattle Symphony, will conducting together with Christine E. Gero. More information about Lee Mills is at https://www.leemillsconductor.com/ and more information about Roosevelt Orchestra program and Ms. Gero can be found at https://www.rooseveltorchestra.org
We hope you will attend and enjoy beautiful music and celebrate the achievements of these fine, talented and hard-working public school musicians.
Does anyone know which of the following school board candidates are more supportive of keeping the HCC/APP model as is? 1. District 1: Liza Rankin or Eric Blumhagen 2. District 2: Lisa Rivera Smith or Write in candidate 3. District 3: Chandra Hampson or Rebecca Muniz District 6: Leslie Harris or Molly Mitchell
(Please help redirect me to the right post if this is not the right place. My first time here so I'm still trying to figure out how it works)
My 4th grader, who's currently enrolled in Seattle public school, took CoGAT test on 9/5/2019. When should I expect to receive his test result? Some parents told me they received test scores in 2 weeks, others in months. Not sure if there's a standard. Will I get an email when test result is available? or is it just posted on the source?
NJ - I don't think anyone is exactly for keeping the HCC cohort exactly as it is, as for many years majority of people have wanted the district to implement practices to make the HCC much more racially diverse.
However Rankin, Hampson and Mitchell would all be candidates that do not support a cohort model at all. They support SPS dismantling of the current HCC model, without a realistic plan on how the district would effectively meet the needs of identified children. The issue is that the district has already shown they cannot or will not implement even "walk to math", separate true honors middle school classes, or other ability grouping strategies in all neighborhood schools. They have actually been busy eliminating these AL opportunities, not expanding them over recent years.
These three also question if the majority of kids who are identified through cognitive testing are indeed "gifted" and therefore deserve services. At least one of those three (Hampson) has also expressed views against ANY type of ability grouping, which would then include being against any separate honors as well as AP/IB classes.
@Oct 31st 2:58PM anonymous post. "White privileged" in Bellevue where the majority of highly capable students are Asian, not white? Your post make no sense in that context. These kids cut across all racial and income levels. Some kids are more gifted than others at baseball, or the arts. One size does not fit all in sports or academically. Some districts do a better job than others identifying students across all race and income categories.
..."group discussion on tier 2 being offered at all 104 schools"
..."Implement and work toward a goal of identifying Black and Brown students, in order to reduce racial disparities in HC identification, and have the disparities eliminated entirely by 2025. With two-tier identification system, the tiers could be adjusted based on goal." (With modification last sentence to read “in the event of a two-tier identification system")
Is 2025 the year by which HCC is anticipated to be phased out completely? Is there a proposed tier 3 service, and where and how will they be served?
Certain types of Asian ethnicities such as Japanese and Chinese and Asian multi-ethnic students are now not considered minorities in the 'Furthest from educational justice' perspective and are being functionally lumped into the white or white-privilege having categories. Same with many Southeast Asian students. District definitions no longer comport with traditional definitions.
The ideal state would be to identify giftedness based on characteristics that could not be coached/prepped for. Test prepping for gifted program is particularly rampant in the Eastside, but also present in Seattle, and basically creates an arms race where your child's future is based on the outcome of test results on a particular test on a particular day.
Find a test that is less sensitive to coaching (or accept multiple criteria for identification), lower the threshold for giftedness, and you'll see more diversity into the program.
Proposal, didn’t SPS lower the threshold some years back with a goal of increased diversity? But the district did not encourage increases in less-represented groups. They could have: promoted it to families in specifically under-represented neighborhoods; promoted it to principals (not sure if they would listen); and increase tutoring, after school, summer and Saturday help. Instead, they seem to want to raise it back up to 99th percentile. That will not increase diversity.
The current plan is not to increase identification to increase diversity in the current cohort model. It is to eliminate a cohort and yet serve all kids in their neighborhood schools. Regardless of the fact that they have simultaneously been eliminating ALO options such as walk to math, opt in honors in high school etc.
The term "white privilege" is curious to also apply Asians who are invisible in this context. I understand economic or educational privilege better which may be the case. Bellevue has an under-identification of white kids in their program. In addition, I truly wish the focus was on identifying more low income kids of all races, including white and Asian. They tend to be under-identified across all programs in the nation. Any thought about individuals at a disadvantage are clearly missing from the racial group focus of the conversation.
Regardless the current plan has the cohort being dismantled for everyone and the top 1% being served without a cohort or a plan in neighborhood classrooms.
How is an appeals policy that is only on the AL website, but not in 2190 or 2190SP allowed to stand? The 99% requirement for appeals assumes families are submitting private tests, but the SPS administered CogAT tests are considered valid for 3 years. Suppose a student meets the CogAT cutoffs, but not the achievement cutoffs, tests again during the next cycle, and then meets the achievement cutoffs but just misses the CogAT cutoffs. They should be able to appeal using the previously admitted, qualifying CogAT scores (98%ile), with the current achievement scores (95%). Is the policy that they would need 99% scores all around, even though they are using only district administered assessments? Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Can someone clarify that this scenario could actually occur with the latest appeals policy?
Yes, this is my question as well. Child easily passed CogAT threshold last year, but was a few points shy on achievement test. So if they pass achievement this year and not CogAT, seems like they should be able to appeal using last year's CogAT scores with qualifying achievement scores.
I suggest emailing AL directly to get clarification on the appeals process and cutoffs when NOT using private testing. If the SPS argument is that private testing provides an advantage, using SPS administered tests as part of an appeal should not trigger higher cutoffs.
The district's Highly Capable Services and Advanced Learning Programs is basically a plan to differentiate learning. Here is a bio of one of the Consulting Teachers working on Highly Capable Services and Advanced Learning Programs. The plan is basically being pushed by justice activists.
Do you mean opt in honors and AP classes? Ask the West Seattle principal which AP courses they offer to see if they will align with your students current coursework. Ask the principal if your child will be able to get into core classes they will need and if they will align schedule wise. Or will your child be at risk of not having the right courses and repeating courses.
The district is dismantling pathway designated high schools (ex Garfield), that would have more kids needing the same AP and other coursework, thus offering multiple sections of a course and easier time making schedules. I am unsure about timeline. But schools such as West Seattle do offer AP classes. You need to ask advanced learning or the principal at West Seattle.
Okun has no expertise in Highly Capable/gifted ed. He's a former music teacher. Most/ all of SPS AL staff have no gifted ed expertise now that S. Martin and B. Vaughan are gone.
Just another example of unqualified staff in JSCEE.
I expect teachers with a college degree to understand and to be able to teach any subject that is taught in K-8. My god they have teacher certificates on top of a college degree.
Geez Most highly capable programs have teachers also endorsed in gifted education, similar to special education or ELL for those programs. It's not about teaching any subject. It's about teaching outlier kids in a recognized group by the state. SPS has recently lost their admin and teachers endorsed and trained in gifted education. They replaced those people intentionally with those who don't have the training or background for their own agenda. This is despite the superintendent recognizing and stating there are outliers (much fewer than current program definition) she believes need a cohort program.
Geez, There are endorsements teachers get on top of a teaching certificate for ELL, special education as well as gifted education. There is a lack of special education endorsed teachers in SPS and nationwide, it's a teacher shortage area like secondary science. There are many teachers with ELL endorsements in SPS.
I have no idea why you are on this blog if you do not understand the concept of education tailored for various kinds of outliers? The SPS superintendent mentioned in a recent interview a need to serve gifted outliers in a cohort, but a much smaller group than currently. They are recognized by the state as needing different services than general education. Do your homework before commenting or stop trolling.
37 comments:
Again? Wow. Every few years, this happens. Frustrating.
I don't understand the motivation. APP doesn't cost more. There's strong evidence the cohort model is more effective if your goal is educating every child. And it's working well, don't fix what isn't broken.
There's this misguided view that eliminating APP somehow improves Seattle Public Schools, but no explanation of how that occurs. Eliminate APP, ???, Profit!
Benjamin I heard otherwise. That they want to keep the cohort HCC model, but shrink the number of kids who qualify using a 1% instead of 2% cognitive threshold amongst other proposed changes.
Pamela
You can take a look at the slides. They're explicit about dismantling the cohorts and pathways.
So crisis averted. Staff doesn't like HC as it makes it really hard to predict where students are going year to year. Overall they want no choice and easier enrollment projections (lord knows they need help with that). Everyone can read the same books in the same class. ell/2e/FRL/AL/HC - MTSS to the rescue.
Please Listen
What was the outcome of this meeting? On a different blog Melissa Westbrook posted comments
(made by Wyeth Jesse) that state among other things the school district's desire to keep an HCC cohort for 1%.
Pamela
Didn't get out of committee
An ALTF survey is being distributed informally via Facebook. Document says it was created within UW. Feels odd answering not knowing how info will be used. Makes me hesitant to participate. Also no way to verify you are actually an HCC family. Seems like anyone could submit fake feedback.
hmm
I have an 8th grader at Jane Addams and until the last week assumed that Lincoln would be our choice for high school. Is the assumption that this option will disappear as Advanced Learning is being dismantled? We live in the Roosevelt assignment area, but many of my kid's friends live in the Hale area and have been eager to stick together by attending Lincoln next year. Ultimately, even if there was one more year of HC pathway at Lincoln would it be worth preferencing that as by the next year it would only be an attendance area school? Would they move kids or just keep 2-3 years of HC kids together and is there any benefit to that? Are we better off sticking with our neighborhood school and making the best of it? I fully realize that Roosevelt has as many AP classes and advanced offerings as any school out there, so we are lucky.
Also, how will this affect boundaries if HC students are no longer considered in that plan? Would the Lincoln boundary need to grow as those students are no longer part of that? (In which case, we may end up getting redrawn to Lincoln as we are pretty close to the boundary!)
I am having a difficult time keeping up with where to find reliable sources of information about this. Every few days something new seems to be announced on some facebook or blog site which makes things challenging when trying to plan ahead. We have not thought seriously about private school, but now wonder how serious the district is about eliminating honors and AP classes at any high school. It's hard to predict if my student would be ready for Running Start and I feel like my they will really miss out on their teen years by busing up to a community college rather than being able to participate in clubs/sports/music at a high school with friends.
8th grade family
FREE AMAZING CONCERT
Embrace joy!
Celebrate the good!!
Enjoy the excellence of our public school students!!!
When: Thursday October 24th
Time: 7pm
What: “Side by Side” concert of the Roosevelt High School & Seattle Symphony Orchestras
Place: Roosevelt High School in the RHS Auditorium
Cost: FREE
Who: Everybody is welcomed to attend!
The concert will begin promptly at 7pm. The concert will only be an hour: one piece performed by RHS Symphony, one by the SSO, and then our combined performance of Berlioz Symphony Fantastique movements 4 and 5. Lee Mills, Associate Conductor for the Seattle Symphony, will conducting together with Christine E. Gero. More information about Lee Mills is at https://www.leemillsconductor.com/ and more information about Roosevelt Orchestra program and Ms. Gero can be found at https://www.rooseveltorchestra.org
We hope you will attend and enjoy beautiful music and celebrate the achievements of these fine, talented and hard-working public school musicians.
music
Does anyone know which of the following school board candidates are more supportive of keeping the HCC/APP model as is?
1. District 1: Liza Rankin or Eric Blumhagen
2. District 2: Lisa Rivera Smith or Write in candidate
3. District 3: Chandra Hampson or Rebecca Muniz
District 6: Leslie Harris or Molly Mitchell
Thanks,
NJ
These people are against HCC: Rankin; Hampson; Mitchell (in my analysis)
Hi everyone,
I recommend Eric Blumhagen in D1 and Rebeca Muniz in D3.
More info here:
VOTE Eric BLUMHAGEN & Rebeca MUNIZ for Seattle School Board!
-- Sue Peters
(Please help redirect me to the right post if this is not the right place. My first time here so I'm still trying to figure out how it works)
My 4th grader, who's currently enrolled in Seattle public school, took CoGAT test on 9/5/2019.
When should I expect to receive his test result? Some parents told me they received test scores in 2 weeks, others in months. Not sure if there's a standard.
Will I get an email when test result is available? or is it just posted on the source?
Thanks,
.
NJ - I don't think anyone is exactly for keeping the HCC cohort exactly as it is, as for many years majority of people have wanted the district to implement practices to make the HCC much more racially diverse.
However Rankin, Hampson and Mitchell would all be candidates that do not support a cohort model at all. They support SPS dismantling of the current HCC model, without a realistic plan on how the district would effectively meet the needs of identified children. The issue is that the district has already shown they cannot or will not implement even "walk to math", separate true honors middle school classes, or other ability grouping strategies in all neighborhood schools. They have actually been busy eliminating these AL opportunities, not expanding them over recent years.
These three also question if the majority of kids who are identified through cognitive testing are indeed "gifted" and therefore deserve services. At least one of those three (Hampson) has also expressed views against ANY type of ability grouping, which would then include being against any separate honors as well as AP/IB classes.
A parent
gifted? ya right, wait I see gifted = white privileged or aspergers.
@Oct 31st 2:58PM anonymous post. "White privileged" in Bellevue where the majority of highly capable students are Asian, not white? Your post make no sense in that context. These kids cut across all racial and income levels. Some kids are more gifted than others at baseball, or the arts. One size does not fit all in sports or academically. Some districts do a better job than others identifying students across all race and income categories.
Meeting minutes now posted for October ALTF.
..."group discussion on tier 2 being offered at all 104 schools"
..."Implement and work toward a goal of identifying Black and Brown students, in order to reduce racial disparities in HC identification, and have the disparities eliminated entirely by 2025. With two-tier identification system, the tiers could be adjusted based on goal."
(With modification last sentence to read “in the event of a two-tier identification system")
Is 2025 the year by which HCC is anticipated to be phased out completely? Is there a proposed tier 3 service, and where and how will they be served?
@ Anonymous @5:01pm
Certain types of Asian ethnicities such as Japanese and Chinese and Asian multi-ethnic students are now not considered minorities in the 'Furthest from educational justice' perspective and are being functionally lumped into the white or white-privilege having categories. Same with many Southeast Asian students. District definitions no longer comport with traditional definitions.
Mr. Theo Moriarty
The ideal state would be to identify giftedness based on characteristics that could not be coached/prepped for. Test prepping for gifted program is particularly rampant in the Eastside, but also present in Seattle, and basically creates an arms race where your child's future is based on the outcome of test results on a particular test on a particular day.
Find a test that is less sensitive to coaching (or accept multiple criteria for identification), lower the threshold for giftedness, and you'll see more diversity into the program.
-proposal
Proposal, didn’t SPS lower the threshold some years back with a goal of increased diversity? But the district did not encourage increases in less-represented groups. They could have: promoted it to families in specifically under-represented neighborhoods; promoted it to principals (not sure if they would listen); and increase tutoring, after school, summer and Saturday help. Instead, they seem to want to raise it back up to 99th percentile. That will not increase diversity.
The current plan is not to increase identification to increase diversity in the current cohort model. It is to eliminate a cohort and yet serve all kids in their neighborhood schools. Regardless of the fact that they have simultaneously been eliminating ALO options such as walk to math, opt in honors in high school etc.
The term "white privilege" is curious to also apply Asians who are invisible in this context. I understand economic or educational privilege better which may be the case. Bellevue has an under-identification of white kids in their program. In addition, I truly wish the focus was on identifying more low income kids of all races, including white and Asian. They tend to be under-identified across all programs in the nation. Any thought about individuals at a disadvantage are clearly missing from the racial group focus of the conversation.
Regardless the current plan has the cohort being dismantled for everyone and the top 1% being served without a cohort or a plan in neighborhood classrooms.
If you child had qualifying CogAT scores last year, but did not enroll in HCC, are those scores still valid for this testing round?
-questioning
yes. did they have they have the math/reading achievement scores?
How is an appeals policy that is only on the AL website, but not in 2190 or 2190SP allowed to stand? The 99% requirement for appeals assumes families are submitting private tests, but the SPS administered CogAT tests are considered valid for 3 years. Suppose a student meets the CogAT cutoffs, but not the achievement cutoffs, tests again during the next cycle, and then meets the achievement cutoffs but just misses the CogAT cutoffs. They should be able to appeal using the previously admitted, qualifying CogAT scores (98%ile), with the current achievement scores (95%). Is the policy that they would need 99% scores all around, even though they are using only district administered assessments? Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Can someone clarify that this scenario could actually occur with the latest appeals policy?
Yes, this is my question as well. Child easily passed CogAT threshold last year, but was a few points shy on achievement test. So if they pass achievement this year and not CogAT, seems like they should be able to appeal using last year's CogAT scores with qualifying achievement scores.
I suggest emailing AL directly to get clarification on the appeals process and cutoffs when NOT using private testing. If the SPS argument is that private testing provides an advantage, using SPS administered tests as part of an appeal should not trigger higher cutoffs.
The district's Highly Capable Services and Advanced Learning Programs is basically a plan to differentiate learning. Here is a bio of one of the Consulting Teachers working on Highly Capable Services and Advanced Learning Programs. The plan is basically being pushed by justice activists.
https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/advanced_learning/department_information/contact_advanced_learning/matt_okun_bio
Will West Seattle High School be offering courses for the HCC cohort in 2020?
Do you mean opt in honors and AP classes? Ask the West Seattle principal which AP courses they offer to see if they will align with your students current coursework. Ask the principal if your child will be able to get into core classes they will need and if they will align schedule wise. Or will your child be at risk of not having the right courses and repeating courses.
The district is dismantling pathway designated high schools (ex Garfield), that would have more kids needing the same AP and other coursework, thus offering multiple sections of a course and easier time making schedules. I am unsure about timeline. But schools such as West Seattle do offer AP classes. You need to ask advanced learning or the principal at West Seattle.
Okun has no expertise in Highly Capable/gifted ed. He's a former music teacher. Most/ all of SPS AL staff have no gifted ed expertise now that S. Martin and B. Vaughan are gone.
Just another example of unqualified staff in JSCEE.
No wonder SPS excels in mediocrity.
WSHS is going honors for all. Can anybody give more details?
WSHS is going honors for all. Can anybody give more details?
I expect teachers with a college degree to understand and to be able to teach any subject that is taught in K-8. My god they have teacher certificates on top of a college degree.
Get your argument figured out.
Geeze
Geez Most highly capable programs have teachers also endorsed in gifted education, similar to special education or ELL for those programs. It's not about teaching any subject. It's about teaching outlier kids in a recognized group by the state. SPS has recently lost their admin and teachers endorsed and trained in gifted education. They replaced those people intentionally with those who don't have the training or background for their own agenda. This is despite the superintendent recognizing and stating there are outliers (much fewer than current program definition) she believes need a cohort program.
Oh BS special ed in SPS consist of IAs and most are people with no certifications.
"Outlier kids in a recognized group" oh please!
Geez
Geez, There are endorsements teachers get on top of a teaching certificate for ELL, special education as well as gifted education. There is a lack of special education endorsed teachers in SPS and nationwide, it's a teacher shortage area like secondary science. There are many teachers with ELL endorsements in SPS.
I have no idea why you are on this blog if you do not understand the concept of education tailored for various kinds of outliers? The SPS superintendent mentioned in a recent interview a need to serve gifted outliers in a cohort, but a much smaller group than currently. They are recognized by the state as needing different services than general education. Do your homework before commenting or stop trolling.
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