Wednesday, February 16, 2011

Q&A on APP eligibility appeals

An anonymous parent requested a new thread for help for those going through the APP appeal process. There is some urgency to this since the appeal deadline is in just a couple weeks.

In particular, the parent had questions about whether anyone knows of appeals that have succeeded without scores that meet the required thresholds? From the parent:
Two different questioners have asked for examples of successful APP appeals based on scores below the stated thresholds, without any reply. Do no such instances actually exist, or have those parents simply not responded? If the former, what then is the purpose of the teacher recommendations? On testing, do MAP scores suffice for achievement, or are additional tests required? And what does it mean that that this year, without any explanation, Advanced Learning Services has deleted from its opening Frequently Asked Question "What are the scores needed to be found eligible for an Advanced Learning program?" its earlier standard boilerplate answer "Scores are not absolute qualifiers or disqualifiers"?

For all those parents submitting APP appeals based on independent assessments in the next two weeks, your answers to these important and confusing questions will be deeply appreciated.
If you know the answer, please chime in. And please also use this thread for other questions and answers about APP appeals.

Those interested in this topic might also want to look at the comments in the previous thread, where there are a lot of questions from parents looking at APP and answers from parents currently in APP.

41 comments :

Lori said...

Maybe the coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but I'm not sure I understand part of the question. The person says "examples of successful APP appeals based on scores below the stated thresholds

Does this mean that private testing yielded scores below the threshold? Thus, this person is interested in knowing what could "make up" for that, such as MAP or teacher recommendations? Just clarifying.

If that's the question, I unfortunately don't have an answer as I haven't met or heard about anyone doing an appeal when the private tests results were below the thresholds. Not saying it hasn't happened though, just that I can't help answer it. Hopefully others can.

Frustrated parent said...

Why would you want your child in APP if they don't qualify? What would be the benefit to your child of always being at the bottom of the class when their academic needs could be met in a more appropriate setting? Parents should keep in mind whether they are doing this for their kids or for their own status.

Fiona Cohen said...

The anonymous frustrated parent asks:
"Why would you want your child in APP if they don't qualify?"
There are a number of possible reasons. Maybe the test scores were below the thresholds, but it was close. All the tests do have margins of error after all. Maybe the kid, unaware of her supposedly low IQ, is reading three years below grade level and finishing her math work before the teacher finishes handing it out to the rest of the class. Maybe the parent has a kid in APP and is familiar with the level of difficulty of the class works and knows his or her kid would do better there than where she is now.
There are a lot of good reasons.
Sheesh.
What is it about our culture that makes us so quick to be suspicious of parents of accomplished kids?

Sadie said...

I am in just that situation. My 2nd grader was privately tested and scored 99th on the WISC, 99th in math and 93rd in reading. At home he reads books that seem pretty advanced for a 2nd grader (Harry Potter and the like) and so it seems unreasonable that he should be forced to stay in a general ed class that is not serving him when he missed qualifying for APP by a mere two percentile points in reading. If anyone has successfully appealed scores that were just a bit too low, I'd love to hear what materials you provided!

Anonymous said...

Sadie, If your son has written a book report on a book like Harry Potter, I would submit it or any other written work that demostrates that he reads materials well above grade level. I would also ask for a teacher recommendation. I think your appeal will be successful unless the incoming 3rd grade class is packed, then you may not get a seat.

Anonymous said...

Sadie, If your son has written a book report on a book like Harry Potter, I would submit it or any other written work that demostrates that he reads materials well above grade level. I would also ask for a teacher recommendation. I think your appeal will be successful unless the incoming 3rd grade class is packed, then you may not get a seat.

Anonymous said...

In terms of appeals, I assume that parents have to submit something else that's pretty convincing if public and/or private scores don't hit the required 98/95/95% marks.

The Advanced Learning office sets a %ile bar for Spectrum and APP, and it seems highly likely that they will follow those guidelines as often as possible. Otherwise, they'd get into a lot of debates about what does or doesn't "count" in addition to those test scores.

Anonymous said...

My understanding is that appeals are pretty cut-and-dried. It simply isn't practical to make the thresholds flexable, and a set of scores from a one-on-one, private test, should be highly reliable. Holding fast to the cut-offs is partly to protect the kids in the program that fall into the 99.9% group across the board in all catagories, they need something significantly different in the classroom that even those in the mid-90s. A few years ago the requirement was 98% or above in all areas, many people feel that moving the requirements down has diluted the program to the extent that students in the top ranges are now not very well served. Not trying to be snotty here, but it is important to note that IQ scores rise exponentially, so the difference between 98% and 99% is hugely different than between 50% and 51%.

Anonymous said...

It's been very helpful to read everyone's comments and questions here. I'm looking for clarification on the appeals cut-offs. In private testing, my child scored 99th on "Full Scale" on the WPPSI; the separate scores that made up that Full Scale were 99.7th on Verbal, and 96th on Performance. So does my child meet the cut-off (98th or above) because of the Full Scale score, or miss the cut-off because of the Performance score? (His MAP scores are fine, just wondering about the IQ portion.) Thanks for any clarification!

hschinske said...

Full scale is what they look at on the WISC. You're fine.

Helen Schinske

hschinske said...

Sorry, I meant WPPSI. (WISC is another Wechsler test, which is usually used for 6-16 or so. WAIS is for adults.) But for any of the individual IQ tests, the full scale is the important number, unless there is such a huge mismatch between verbal and performance that the full scale number is not meaningful.

Helen Schinske

Shannon said...

I am sorry, but I agree with the previous poster who said there is no flexibility on score thresholds. IF private testing doesn't show scores at or above the thresholds, I wouldn't count on getting in on appeal.

I feel for those in this situation, since kids who are highly gifted in math can be exceptionally advanced and clearly need accelerated work but APP requires math AND verbal scores to be in the range.

Shannon

Anonymous said...

Well, this is my confusion exactly (I'm the poster with the question about Full Scale vs. individual scores). The original eligibility requirements do say "98th (or higher) percentile in two areas" on the CogAt. On the other hand, the appeals page says the child needs 98/99th percentile on Full Scale score only.

I don't know about the WISC, but the WPPSI doesn't exactly have a "Math" section (It's Verbal, Performance, and Processing Speed -- though Performance is more mathematical). Full Scale is some sort of combination of the component scores. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that SPS really does mean Full Scale only for eligibility. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if the Advanced Learning folks look at the individual scores and take them into account.

hschinske said...

They do NOT look at the full-scale scores on the CogAT, but do on the individual IQ tests. I'm pretty sure my kids were slightly lower on the performance side as well.

Helen Schinske

Anonymous said...

“Frustrated Parent” perhaps underestimates the value of this thread in clarifying exactly where the bar is actually being set for the purpose of APP qualifying. From previous questions and comments on this blog, there is much advice for those now submitting APP eligibility appeals, sometimes revealing conflicting understandings of this public process. After grouping several of these previous comments together by topic, other parents may find it helpful to see such prior contributions gathered in one place. Each of the following Questions addresses a different topic.

Anonymous said...

Q. ARE THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, DEPENDING ON OTHER EVIDENCE? A. “YES” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

David, Given that the tests have a margin of error (reported at 4% in audit), even if your child was extremely consistent with testing, it's easy to see how you could get scores that do not meet the requirements on a given day.
Mercermom, February 5 @ 7.42 a.m.

The appeal info reads as if you should include [any teacher support letter] in the appeal but in reality the teachers will send them in separately. That said anyone ever successfully appeal without the needed scores?
Anonymous, February 15 @ 12.53 p.m.

Sadie, If your son has written a book report on a book like Harry Potter, I would submit it or any other written work that demonstrates that he reads materials well above grade level. I would also ask for a teacher recommendation. I think your appeal will be successful unless the incoming 3rd grade class is packed, then you may not get a seat.
Anonymous, February 16 @ 6:15 p.m.

In terms of appeals, I assume that parents have to submit something else that's pretty convincing if public and/or private scores don't hit the required 98/95/95% marks.
The Advanced Learning office sets a %ile bar for Spectrum and APP, and it seems highly likely that they will follow those guidelines as often as possible. Otherwise, they'd get into a lot of debates about what does or doesn't "count" in addition to those test scores.
Anonymous, February 17 @ 8:46 PM

[S]tudents on the borderline have gotten into Spectrum or APP on appeal based on further recommendations or whatever, without further testing. I suspect this may have changed around under different leadership at Advanced Learning, but the examples I'm thinking of were under Bob Vaughan's previous tenure. However, the time for considering appeals is so short that a complicated appeal package may not get proper consideration.
Helen Schinske, January 18, 2010 @ 10.36 a.m.

Here's that eligibility URL once more . . . :
http://www.seattleschools.org/area/advlearning/eligtestcriteria.htm
And of course, there is a caveat from SPS: "Scores are general break points and not absolute qualifiers or disqualifiers. Teacher input is strongly considered."
Anonymous, February 5, 2010 @ 3.23 p.m.

We are appealing. Are outside test scores a "must" for an appeal packet? Our daughter's Cogat scores were v:99, Q:95, and VQ: 99. Her WASL scores last year in 3rd grade were reading: 99, Math: 92.
I had been thinking that letters from teacher/principal/parents, along with work example, would do. Now am questioning myself. Any feedback?
Fuzzystar, February 12, 2010 @ 10.20 a.m.

Successful appeal (97th, 98th, 98th), but also admission to Bush. [Note: If this parent is describing a 97th percentile cognitive score, this post would then seem to be the only “firsthand information” on this blog of a recent flexible threshold.]
Anonymous, March 25, 2010 @ 10.35 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Q. ARE THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, DEPENDING ON OTHER EVIDENCE? A. “NO” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

At the lower grade levels (i.e. incoming first graders, etc) I think it is imperative to appeal the CogAt. Anecdotally, our kid had an independent professional test (one on one) and got in on appeal when scores on the CogAt were below the threshold. Another close friend appealed without independent testing and did not get in. Because the Spectrum offering at that child's school and grade-level was only 6 kids, the child ended up changing schools to at least get Spectrum.
Anonymous, January 30 @ 12.53 p.m.

We did an appeal for our daughter a couple of years ago for middle school for APP. She had the required scores for the achievement tests but scored just under the threshold on the CogAt.
We sent teacher letters but did not send private test scores. She was admitted to Spectrum but not APP. The letter in response to our appeal noted that she did not meet the needed cognitive abilities scores (98% or above).
I hear anecdotal stores about kids who did not meet testing thresholds but got in on appeals anyhow, but am hesitant to believe they are accurate. Anyone have any concrete or firsthand information?
Anonymous, February 7 @ 3.49 p.m.


My understanding is that appeals are pretty cut-and-dried. It simply isn't practical to make the thresholds flexible, and a set of scores from a one-on-one, private test, should be highly reliable.
Anonymous, February 18 @ 4.12 p.m.

I am sorry, but I agree with the previous poster who said there is no flexibility on score thresholds. IF private testing doesn't show scores at or above the thresholds, I wouldn't count on getting in on appeal.
I feel for those in this situation, since kids who are highly gifted in math can be exceptionally advanced and clearly need accelerated work but APP requires math AND verbal scores to be in the range.
Shannon, February 19 @ 8.31 p.m.

My understanding is that the test score is the only thing that matters in the appeal process, not the teacher's comments, examples of student work, or other things that "may be included".
Greg Linden, January 18, 2010 @ 8.56 a.m.

If the results meet the entry criteria, then you're in, if not, not.
Anonymous, March 25, 2010 @ 10.22 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Q. IF THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS ARE FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, CAN TEACHER SUPPORT LETTERS TIP THE SCALES FOR YOUR CHILD?

I am also curious what supporting documents (beside private test scores) that people have used for successful appeals. I want to be thorough, but not over the top!
Also Anonymous, February 7 @ 2.11 p.m.

The advanced learning website makes it appear that teacher letters would be appropriate to send with the appeal. Anyone else have experience with this?
Also Anonymous, February 14 @ 3.05 p.m.

Sadie, If your son has written a book report on a book like Harry Potter, I would submit it or any other written work that demonstrates that he reads materials well above grade level. I would also ask for a teacher recommendation. I think your appeal will be successful unless the incoming 3rd grade class is packed, then you may not get a seat.
Anonymous, February 16 @ 6:15 p.m.

My son was accepted on appeal two years ago, and I know that his teacher put in quite a bit of effort writing a letter of recommendation and putting his package of materials together -- to the point where she called Julie B. (at Lowell at the time) and APP teacher friends to see what AL might be looking for. Perhaps something was missing in other parts of your appeal? [Note: this teacher may have been supporting a student with APP qualifying (98+, 95+, 95+) percentile test scores.]
Anonymous, March 27, 2010 @ 10.15 a.m.

Anonymous said...

Q. IF THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS ARE FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, CAN YOUR CHILD’S STUDENT WORK PORTFOLIO TIP THE SCALES FOR YOUR CHILD?

If you don't think your kid's CogAt is correct, you should appeal. I don't think anything but private tests done by a properly credentialed provider would work. (I know SPS used to review portfolios of work instead of test scores, but don't think they do that now.) Since you would need both IQ and achievement tests for APP admissions, it's going to cost around $600.
Laura, January 30 @ 11.31 a.m.

Sadie, If your son has written a book report on a book like Harry Potter, I would submit it or any other written work that demonstrates that he reads materials well above grade level. I would also ask for a teacher recommendation. I think your appeal will be successful unless the incoming 3rd grade class is packed, then you may not get a seat.
Anonymous, February 16 @ 6:15 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Q. IF YOUR CHILD’S TEST SCORE PERCENTILES DO MEET THE STATED APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) THRESHOLDS, IS ANYTHING MORE REQUIRED? A. “NO” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

Does anyone have a kid in APP now who tested in on appeal, but was borderline from district testing? I have a son who was assigned to Spectrum with COGAT scores of 97/98 and achievement scores of 98/99. We're thinking of appealing because we have IQ testing that placed him in the 98th percentile. Is this a bad idea to send him there? Will he be overwhelmed? He is probably what Julie Briedenbach used to call a "double dipper" because he has some learning issues but is obviously bright enough to compensate for them.
Former Lowell Mama, February 3 @ 5.58 p.m.

While the cutoff for APP on the CogAT is 98th percentile, it used to be the case that outside testing results generally had to be at the 99th percentile. I don't know whether that's still true. But I think that was for kids with considerably lower CogAT scores -- since your child has a score that's probably just one or two questions away from qualifying, and the outside testing confirms that 98th percentile result, you have a reasonable case. (Many students who appeal have *way* lower CogAT scores -- I think the lowest I've heard of is 37th percentile.) Whether he's really a borderline case or just had a test result or two at the borderline is a different matter, and you can't tell that from numbers alone.
Helen Schinske, February 3 @ 8.30 p.m.

I posted early on in this thread. Our first-grade son had scored an 81 on the CogAt, but had scored 99s on his MAP tests. We just had the private test completed this weekend, and he scored a 98 on the CogAt-equivalent. This seems to be confirmation for others that a somewhat lower CogAt score can be a faulty data point.
So does this mean our appeal is almost certain to succeed?
Anonymous, February 6 @ 1.35 p.m.

The appeal process is so mysterious!
Does a 98/99 on an approved private exam result in an automatic yes? If it does, then is the "supporting material" (cover letter, teacher recs, classroom work examples, etc) even looked at? Or if the appeal decision is based on all of the above, how are the various inputs weighted? Who's responsible for the decision? How detailed and transparent would a denial be if a child is denied despite 98/99 on a private exam?
Anonymous, February 6 @ 5.22 p.m.

Is it common wisdom that a teacher letter/recommendation is not really necessary for a successful appeal? That seems to be what I'm seeing after reading through past blog threads here. With private testing, our son now meets the criteria, but we're not sure how helpful his teacher would be in providing a recommendation letter. I think we'd rather just skip that effort altogether.
Anonymous, February 7 @ 1.28 p.m.

READER, THIS TOPIC CONTINUES ON NEXT POST ALSO . . .

Anonymous said...

Q. IF YOUR CHILD’S TEST SCORE PERCENTILES DO MEET THE STATED APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) THRESHOLDS, IS ANYTHING MORE REQUIRED? A. “NO” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION (continued from preceding post):

My understanding is that the test score is the only thing that matters in the appeal process, not the teacher's comments, examples of student work, or other things that "may be included".
What if the appeal process was no more than simply submitting a qualified test score that established that the child can score above the threshold for eligibility? That only would require the Advanced Learning office to quickly examine and confirm the score. It would significantly reduce the work of processing the appeals and and allow for a longer appeal period, would it not?
The current process appears to be explicitly designed to limit APP eligibility appeals. As I said earlier, that prevents mistakes in testing from being corrected, is likely to exclude otherwise eligible children, and is particularly likely to exclude children of parents with limited means. Is that what we want?
Greg Linden, January 18, 2010 @ 8.56 a.m.

"My understanding is that the test score is the only thing that matters in the appeal process, not the teacher's comments, examples of student work, or other things that "may be included"."
If you've *got* the test scores, that's all that matters -- the student's application doesn't have to be especially impressive. The converse is not necessarily true; students on the borderline have gotten into Spectrum or APP on appeal based on further recommendations or whatever, without further testing. I suspect this may have changed around under different leadership at Advanced Learning, but the examples I'm thinking of were under Bob Vaughan's previous tenure. However, the time for considering appeals is so short that a complicated appeal package may not get proper consideration.
Helen Schinske, January 18, 2010 @ 10.36 a.m.

[Y]ou need to have someone tell you exactly why the appeal was denied. It's basically a numbers game and shouldn't really be open to interpretation; if you get a certain score in the required areas, either with district testing or with an authorized private party, and you do the correct paperwork, you're in.
Stu, March 27, 2010 @ 9.54 p.m.

I was under the impression that all appeals were successful IF
1) The third party tester was credentialed,
2) The requested documents were submitted (10 page limit, yadda yadda) and the right tests administered for the year in question.
3) The scores were in the required range.
Shannon, March 25, 2010 @ 5.57 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Q. IF YOUR CHILD’S TEST SCORE PERCENTILES DO MEET THE STATED APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) THRESHOLDS, IS ANYTHING MORE REQUIRED? A. “YES” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

We can present the case of the second-grader who tested in the 99% percentile through private testing and was not admitted to the APP program anyway. He had tested to their standard on the achievement test, but came in extremely low on the CoGAT because of testing anxiety... we had his IQ tested (99th percentile) and presented our appeal, which they rejected on the grounds that the appeal provided "insufficient evidence to reverse the earlier decision." So never let it be said that you can just test in on the basis of private testing, at least, it didn't work that way for us.
Anonymous, January 18, 2010 @ 2.13 p.m.

Anon. at 2:13 -- I've honestly never heard of a case like yours before. Which IQ test was used? If it was the then-current version of the Wechsler or Stanford Binet . . . , I'm stumped. It sounds like a plain error to me.
Helen Schinske, January 18, 2010 @ 2.57 p.m.

hschinske & Shannon - it was the WISC-IV, and the appeal rules were clear that they did not want to see additional achievement test scores if you were already in range on their own achievement tests. And they make very clear in the decision letter that will provide no further information or justification, so don't bother asking. I can only surmise that the result was due to our teacher evaluation or to some subjective decision-making on their part. Very disappointing result, especially since we paid $$ to get the independent testing, only to find that a "successful test" was apparently meaningless to the decision in his case.
Anonymous, January 18, 2010 @ 8.54 p.m.

It is also my understanding that an appeal need only be supported by outside test scores in those areas where the child did not meet the threshold. The Advanced Learning staff, like anyone, can make mistakes. I know of a student who received a letter saying that he was not admitted based on District testing, despite scores that met the criteria. When AL was notified, they corrected the error. I am sure that AL would not refuse to respond to an inquiry about a result that apparently contradicts the admissions criteria, treating that as an an attempt to appeal the appeal decision
Mercermom, January 19, 2010 @ 6.35 a.m.

We too were successful in having our daughter admitted into 5th grade for next Fall in the appeals process. Strangely though, our younger child did not make it through the appeals process for 3rd grade. Her 3rd party testing indicates that her I.Q. score is 0.01th of a percent different from her sister. AND she scored higher than her sister on the CogAt. APP says the word is final and there will be no further appeal process. Sad for my younger. It isn't as if I'm attempting to shoehorn my kid into a program that she doesn't belong in. She ranks in the 99.98th percentile! What gives? Any advice from seasoned APP parents?
Anonymous, March 25, 2010 @ 2.35 p.m.

The advanced learning dept is certainly not perfect, but I can't see them simply misreading test results. If the results meet the entry criteria, then you're in, if not, not.
More details would be helpful. Did they really make a mistake, or are you leaving out some other relevant bit of information?
Anonymous, March 25, 2010 @ 10.22 p.m.

Sorry folks. Didn't mean to leave out that detail. The test that was administered was the WISC-IV -- by a local accredited child psychologist (one on the 'recommended list'). Older daughter that was admitted to APP scored overall in the 99.99th percentile on the privately administered test. . . . . Younger daughter scored 99.98th percentile overall on WISC. [Note: this parent does not clearly indicate what scores the younger daughter scored on separate math and reading achievement tests.]
Anonymous, March 26, 2010 @ 11.25 a.m.

Anonymous said...

OTHER APP ELIGIBILITY APPEALS QUESTIONS?

"My understanding is that eligiblity has always required scoring in the 98/99th percentile on CogAT, but that the reading and math score thresholds were lowered from 98/99th percentile to 95th percentile a few years ago."

Lori, I don't think that's correct. When my kids started in APP, the exact achievement thresholds for Spectrum and APP were not generally mentioned, and only the *averages* for those admitted were released. The achievement average was usually 97th-98th or so, so it must have included scores below that. I suspect it's been 95th percentile for quite a long time.
Found an exact quotation from an old post of mine on SpectrumAPP: the _Review of Highly Capable Programs 2000-2001_ stated "Last year, students selected for this program [Spectrum], averaged scores at the 95th percentile on measures of intellectual ability, and at the 92nd percentile on math and reading achievement tests." (p. 52) (APP figures were 99th and 97th percentile respectively.)
Helen Schinske, November 12, 2010 @ 11.28 a.m.

No data on . . . how many were accepted on the first round partly due to private test results being included in the initial application (in effect pre-appealing).
Helen Schinske, January 18, 2010 @ 2.08 p.m.

Scores from outside testing can be submitted with the original application, by the way, but the child still has to take the CogAT and whatever achievement test is deemed necessary. However, if they already have outside scores, they take those into consideration with the original application and don't make you file an appeal. At least that's how it used to work.
Helen Schinske, January 19, 2010 @ 12.31 p.m.

Anonymous said...

For some reason, blogger accepts my posts and says they have been saved, then momentarily adds them to the thread, but then the next time I click refresh, they have disappeared. There is no warning that they exceed word length or that anything else is amiss. Can anyone suggest why this might be happening? It's very frustrating.

Greg Linden said...

Hi, Anonymous. Sorry, those long posts were getting falsely labelled as spam by Blogger. I'm not sure what is going on with Blogger's anti-spam algorithm, but it seems to be confused and mistakenly labeling legitimate posts as spam. Sorry about that. I went through and manually labelled them all as not spam, so they should be up now.

It looks like there might be some duplicates now though? Should I go through and clean that up? If you'd like me to do that, can you tell me how many there should be in the end (how many posts total there should be) and I'll try to delete the duplicates?

Thanks, Anonymous, for summarizing all those older threads. Sorry for the hassle here.

Anonymous said...

Greg,

thank you so much, now I understand what was happening! And yes, unfortunately now the result is that there are numerous multiple posts, which is confusing, so when you do have a chance it would be appreciated if you could delete obvious duplicates. Also, the questions may not have appeared in their original order, and a couple got chopped up. Let me try once again to post the last summary that I have here, and then anything you do to clean it all up will help. I hope that having this stuff in one place is helpful, because I do think the process is not entirely clear. Thanks again for this tremendous resource.

hschinske said...

It would be a lot simpler to enable searches in Google Reader, so that people could look at the archives. I'm not actually totally happy with my posts being repeated over and over out of context like this.

Helen Schinske

Anonymous said...

Greg,

as you suggested, and to simplify your task, the above summaries from this APP blog were originally grouped in this order to answer the following 7 categories:

Q. ARE THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, DEPENDING ON OTHER EVIDENCE? A. “YES” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

Q. ARE THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, DEPENDING ON OTHER EVIDENCE? A. “NO” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

Q. IF THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS ARE FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, CAN TEACHER SUPPORT LETTERS TIP THE SCALES FOR YOUR CHILD?

Q. IF THE APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) TEST SCORE THRESHOLDS ARE FLEXIBLE BENCHMARKS, CAN YOUR CHILD’S STUDENT WORK PORTFOLIO TIP THE SCALES FOR YOUR CHILD?

Q. IF YOUR CHILD’S TEST SCORE PERCENTILES DO MEET THE STATED APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) THRESHOLDS, IS ANYTHING MORE REQUIRED? A. “NO” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

Q. IF YOUR CHILD’S TEST SCORE PERCENTILES DO MEET THE STATED APP QUALIFYING (98,th 95,th 95th %ile) THRESHOLDS, IS ANYTHING MORE REQUIRED? A. “YES” ANSWERS, FROM SPLIT BLOG OPINION:

OTHER APP ELIGIBILITY APPEALS QUESTIONS?

* * * * *

As you gathered, I did read all the earlier threads and from the many posts on APP appeals, copied only those that might shed light on the above 7 questions. You should be able to reconstruct it easily now and delete the several duplicates caused by the spam filter; notice too that some of the later duplicate posts were also just broken up into smaller segments thinking that might have been the problem. Thanks again for helping, and I do hope this is useful.

Greg Linden said...

Okay, I eliminated the duplicate comments. Please let me know if I accidentally missed one or deleted one that shouldn't have been deleted. Otherwise, I think we're all set. Again, sorry for the hassle, not sure why Blogger's spam filter got triggered by your posts like that.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have an idea (or data)about the spread of abilities in the APP population. Our daughter will probably be starting APP second grade with solid scores showing she is gifted (Cog 99th, MAPS=98th and 99th)but she is not in the range of "profoundly gifted" by WISC-IV testing where she comes out in 130's for IQ. I am wondering whether she will be struggling to keep up with the APP curriculum if it is structured for the higher end of the gifted spectrum. Intensity and anxiety are part of her life as bright high strung kid and I don't want her to get overwhelmed and discouraged at this tender age.

NE parent said...

I've been wondering the same thing. My child has an IQ in the 130s. My older child, who went through APP, has an IQ in the 150s. For the older sibling, APP was not enough. For the younger one, I am wondering if it will be too much. Any thoughts?

hschinske said...

The vast majority of students in any gifted program will cluster close to the cutoff, just by virtue of how the scores are distributed. I've heard far more complaints about the curriculum level being too low than too high, though the volume of homework (which is, or was, wildly teacher-dependent) is sometimes too high.

Helen Schinske

Anonymous said...

My 3rd grader, with IQ in 130's, has not had a problem with the work in APP at Lowell. If anything, I think he could be challenged more. He has been there since first grade and, so far, I feel like both the workload and homework levels have not been excessive. He's usually done with his homework in about 15 minutes.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have a definitive answer on when appeals decisions will be sent? One place on the website says "mid-March," but another place says that we should fill out our enrollment forms as if our appeal is successful (and the system will drop that choice if it isn't) -- which suggests that we won't have the decision in hand before the enrollment deadline.

Jessica said...

I asked the Advanced Learning office last week when the appeal letters would be mailed and was told "on or around March 15."

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Jessica! It's helpful to know how long this excruciating wait will be. :)

Formerly known as Cali said...

Bob Vaugn told me at the SPS Symposium held at Ballard High School on Saturday that letters were going out "Monday."

Anonymous said...

At the Lowell tour on Thursday evening, Dr. Vaughan said he would be reading appeals (including Advanced Learning's first look at any qualifying scores obtained through independent testing)after he got home. He said that those eligibility letters would go out this coming week. He also mentioned the exact number of appeals, which as I recall was 492 or so. Fingers crossed for all those hopeful families.

Anonymous said...

Greg,

great job tidying up the duplicate posts, much appreciated, thanks for taking the time.

Anonymous said...

We got the response to our appeal on Tuesday. Our boy made it in to APP. I can tell you we sent a two page letter describing our son and his abilities with the private scores,(99% across the board with the private test). We sent no other evidence.

soumitra said...

Can u pls shed light on the private testing u used