Thursday, May 17, 2012

Open APP program placement questions

Lifting from the comments, Charlie Mas writes:
[It] is inevitable [that] ... SNAPP is going to Wilson ... [but] there are other program placement decisions which are not yet settled. Among them are:
  • The APP pathway for students in the McClure Service Area. Will they be part of the north-end program or the south-end program?

  • Will SNAPP be co-housed or co-located with any other programs at Wilson?

  • The eventual placement of the south-end elementary program. Will the program remain at Thurgood Marshall? Will it continue to co-house with an attendance area program? Will the PEACE Academy remain there?

  • The eventual placement of the middle school programs. Will the north-end program remain at Hamilton or it will move to Pacific? The south-end program will probably remain at Washington, especially with the relief that school will get from the restoration of a middle school at Meany, but should it move?

  • Even the high school program may see some program placement action. There are a number of possibilities here, ranging from the relocation of all or part of the program to Lincoln to recognition of additional APP options (like Ingraham) at the two other IB schools, STEM, and NOVA.
Thoughts on that?

70 comments :

Anonymous said...

I've heard that the middle school APP program will move from Hamilton in the 2013-14 school year - presumably to John Marshall? I wish the District would start sharing their thinking about what they are going to do with the North-end APP middle school population NOW. It seems clear that they can't stay at Hamilton too much longer because Hamilton is so overcrowded.

Parent of an elementary APP kid without a permanent location and a middle schoool APP kid that soon won't have a permanent location.

Steve said...

Since we (the District) clearly doesn't know what to do with Advanced Learning programs, would it not be a simple thing to analyze 4-5 districts similar to us that manage to do a good job with these programs, determine the common/best elements of each, and make that our plan? I know there was an audit and recommendations years ago that were never followed, but we keep throwing up our hands about this, and it's ridiculous. "If you don't know, ask." Good advice for anyone, but especially our indecisive, often inept selves....

Anonymous said...

Greg -- your blog entry lifted from parts of Charlie's comments, is misleading. "SNAPP is going to Wilson" is not a done deal, as Charlie acknowledges in his original post. Charlie believes, in his opinion, that this assigmgment is inevitable, but the ALPTF and FACMAC have not made a program placement recommendation, and the district has not made a decision yet. Please do not perpetuate misunderstandings about the status of APP program placement decisions by presenting Charliie's opinion as fact. Many people believe, for example, that SNAPP, already at 530 students next year, will be too big for Wilson by 2017, and will need o split into two locations by then (likely Wilson and one other building).
- No decision made yet.

Anonymous said...

To Steve:
There is only one thing missing to to what you proposed from the SPS: the will to make the change.
Can we change that?

Greg Linden said...

Fair point, "No decision made yet". I may have quoted a little to little in my attempt to be brief. I edited the quote to clarify.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Greg. That helps clarify the current status of APP placement.
-- no decision made yet.

apparent said...

John Marshall? 760 seats vacant from 2017 ...

Anonymous said...

From the recent thread on Lowell-

Charlie Mas:
The is only one school called Lowell. It occupies two campuses. If Lowell [Capitol Hill] makes application as a Creative Approach School, that application covers the whole school, including the special education students and teachers and the APP students and teachers - whether they are at the Lowell building or not.

Erik knows this because he was at the Creative Approach meeting when Phil Brockman answered this question for the Lowell group at the meeting.


What's up with that?

L@L Parent said...

My intuition says APP will be split NE/NW. NW will go to the newly built and very large North Beach. No idea about where NE will go, but maybe one of the large elementary schools being built/added-on to over there. APP @ Wilson is a placeholder not a done deal by any means.

Charlie Mas said...

L@L Parent, there's a reason that you cannot name a northeast building for half of the north-end APP cohort.

There is no available capacity in the NE for elementary APP. Not now, and not after the BEX IV construction is complete.

I know that APP students living in that area are counted among the students who need seats. I know that this might lead you conclude that there will be capacity for them there. I also know that's not how the District works. There will not be any capacity available for them and there certainly won't be an attendance area school that will give up 250 seats for the program.

The absence of any available capacity in the northeast is the primary reason that the only available solution is to put all of the North-end students at Wilson. The impossibility of any attendance area school holding 250 seats for the program is the second reason.

Anonymous said...

Charlie,
Why are you assuming that the 650-seat assignment area school added to the Thornton Creek site will be off limits to APP?

L@L parent said...

Charlie,

What about Pinehurst? Is that the name of the school in the north end that keeps getting closure threats/rumors? I'm sure I can name some schools. As someone else said above, Thorton Creek.

Anonymous said...

Um, yeah, the new 650 student building at Thorton Creek will be off-limits to APP and anyone that looks at the numbers would know that.

The NE is so over-crowded and the only relief in sight is that new building. Even with those 650 seats, the NE will still be portabled to death. The definition of "portables to death" is that by the time that building does come on line, the NE will even be out of space to add portables. Many of the buildings are already maxed out on the number of portables that can be permitted.

-ne app parent

Charlie Mas said...

As ne app parent has already answered, the District needs every one of the 650 new seats at Thornton Creek (and then some) for attendance area students. They are ALL needed to meet immediate capacity needs. They are not available for bringing additional students into that area of the district who are currently attending school outside that area.

As for Pinehurst, it is tiny. Total building capacity, without portables, is 176.

Keep trying, L@L Parent. If you can think of something, I would love to hear it.

Anonymous said...

Charlie -- APP students who live in NE Seattle are attendance area students. Unless you want to keep them at Lincoln indefinitely, these are all north end kids who have to go somewhere in the north end. Half of APP north could go to Thornton Creek -- those who live in the NE. A massive APP site at Wilson is not the only option. By 2017 APP north will likely need to split. The district should plan for it now. We've had 2 unplanned splits that could have been planned for much better. Don't be shortsighted by advocating for 1 big APP site when we all see APP North growing too big. SNAPP is going to be about 530 kids next year -- up from 480. At an annual growth rate of 10% per year similar to what has occurred over the last 5 years, SNAPP will exceed Wilson's 650 capacity before it opens its doors in 2017.
-- plan for inevitable split

Charlie Mas said...

While it is true that there are a lot of APP students who live in the northeast and the District should include capacity for them in the northeast, the sad truth is that the District has not provided that capacity. Not historically and not in BEX IV.

All of the seats at the new building planned for the Thornton Creek campus are to relieve the current overcrowding at northeast attendance area schools. There is no space in that building for APP students to return to the northeast. For northeast APP students to be placed in the northeast, the district would have to build yet another elementary school in that part of town.

I fully support that, but there are no such plans in BEX IV.

Charlie Mas said...

Also, I would dispute the projections that assume astonishing growth rates for APP into the long-term future.

If there is a split needed, that split is to re-direct APP students in the McClure service area to the southern program.

Anonymous said...

Charlie Mas said.....If there is a split needed, that split is to re-direct APP students in the McClure service area to the southern program.

Is that strictly yr opinion, or is this something that the District is looking at? As a McCLure service area parent, I can tell you that QA/Magnolia parents would be v hesitant to send their kids across town to WMS, and more so to TM, which would be a huge haul. Even tho we are S of the ship canal, QA/Mag families consider themselves North Seattle, distance-wise and driving times are easy to Hamilton, Lincoln, or anywhere N Seattle; and that is how the APP program is currently allocated so why point to that contingent to be puled from SNAPP? Also for elementary, QA/Mag has some very gd choices w/some aspects of advanced learning available, so you would likely lose most of those kids that otherwise would do well in the APP program. The McCLure service area would not be supportive of this kiind of split.
- QA mom

Anonymous said...

QA Mom,

APP students in QA were going to WMS for several years with no problems - so to assume that many would drop out of the program if that happens is a bit dramatic.

If your child truly needs the program, you will send them where they can receive the services.

If not - feel free to use the excellent attendance school in your neighborhood - the district is not going to change what makes the most sense for the program because you make that choice.

-Seriously?

Anonymous said...

Would it be a perfect time for the district to fix and open up the empty Magnolia school - until it is not totally destroyed by the elements? Maybe instead of building a new SLU school?
-Just asking

CCM said...

There are many parents of APP students that would support the QA/Magnolia kids going south - if it would remove the need to split the elementary program into three pieces.

I believe that we need to think about what is best for the program - and many (me included) do not believe that the program could withstand another split.

I don't have a child in this race as my kid is going to high school next year.

But I can tell you that our child received a good, project-based education that included critical thinking at Lowell. Not all classes were perfect - but overall, we had no major complaints. Teachers were 100% invested in the program and understood how to engage our child.

We have already lost a good portion of that with the current split - Lincoln parents are talking about "project-based" curriculum as a new thing - which makes me sad.

I think two locations is the most that we can hope to try and regain some quality control and give these kids what they truly need.

Keep the high school choice between Ingraham and Garfield - and keep the elementary and middle school options at two buildings.

IMHO.

Anonymous said...

I just don't see the district moving QA/Mag kids south. There are relatively few kids, and busing them south would be very costly. The district has obviously already made this calculation because the QA/Mag kids are assigned to Ballard as their neighborhood high school.

I wish the district would just announce this once and for all so that the families there can stop hearing about this looming threat.

-tired

Anonymous said...

Charlie -- McClure area families do not want to go South, and TM has made it clear that the school is functioning well and does not want decisions about North end APP program placement to disrupt a well-functioning South-end co-housed school. As you are well aware, there is no room for McClure area students to be housed at TM. TM is a diverse school with the benefit of a cohesive community drawing from a south end population. Since there are capacity issues everywhere, let's start with the premise that kids should go to school as near as possible to their homes.
-- TM parent

Anonymous said...

CCM-

How many APP children live in QA/Mag? I know the answer, but I wonder how many proposing this do. It isn't as many as many think, and it wouldn't help with capacity. It certainly would NOT enable the north program to stay in one piece.

-tired

CCM said...

Well - if moving QA/Magnolia kids isn't enough to keep the program in two locations - then I would advocate figuring out what is.

I just don't think its realistic to believe that APP North will be given a stand-alone building large enough to house 600 kids (cynicism here -- but we went through the first split and literally came out feeling like we were banging our heads up against a brick wall).

So we are likely looking at another elementary split to be co-housed.

Makes me happy that our family is no longer in elementary school - but sad for the families that will receive a shadow of what the program used to be.

Anonymous said...

As a QA parent, I agree with tired. We may be too small in number to throw us under the bus. We are very close to Hamilton and to Lincoln (7 minute car ride, 15 minute bus ride) and many of our children have been with this group of kids for years. Why split our children off from their cohort and good friends and put them on a bus for an hour when it would arguably be of very little benefit to the rest of you? Please don't make the suggestion unless you are willing to volunteer to rip your children away from all of their friends and put them on a bus that takes 4x longer.

Anonymous said...

People pushing to move QA/Mag kids south should also remember that the current 4th and 5th graders have already been through the 1st split and the summer move. These kids should only be asked to deal with so much.

-tired

Stop Splitting said...

I cannot help but think that it would have been nice to see these people in QA/Magnolia worried about being split off now as concerned for people at the same latitude in Seattle (like Capitol Hill and Montlake) when they got screwed by the 2009 split. Seems like not-in-my-backyard hearing such deep concern now.

Trying to be more constructive than that, if you live in QA/Magnolia and don't want to be yanked away from all your kids friends, I'd say one argument to make would be that it won't work. Most likely, many of those families will leave for private schools and take their test scores with them. Now, the district might not care about that either, but it does at least hurt administration on something they are measured by, unlike seeing QA/Magnolia kids being subject to more disruption, which they couldn't care less about.

In any case, you're going to have to find something the district cares about to make your case, and, quite frankly, I doubt exposing those of us in APP to more pain is something they would ever be concerned about.

cease and disist said...

I can't believe the comments I am seeing here.

From CCM - There are many parents of APP students that would support the QA/Magnolia kids going south

From Stop Splitting - I cannot help but think that it would have been nice to see these people in QA/Magnolia worried about being split off now as concerned for people at the same latitude in Seattle

APP has been, and is continuing to be, asked to take on an inordinate amount of pain in the name of "capacity management." We shouldn't be trying to eat our own at the merest hint of trouble from the district.

As the fine statesman, Rodney King, said. "can't we all just get along?" We shouldn't be doing the district's job for them.

Anonymous said...

Charlie's proposal to send McClure area kids south (presumably to TM) is illogical. TM will already have portables next year. Sending McClure area kids South solves nothing, and just creates problems with capacity at TM. North end capacity problems need north end solutions -- as recent history with APP program assignment has shown us.
-- TM parent

Stop Splitting said...

Yes, "cease and desist", it would be great if we could all get along. But the stage was set to pit APP parent against APP parent at the first split in 2009. We were outmaneuvered and torn apart then, and now the community is a sad shadow of its former strength.

We are now divided and full of people looking out for their own. We saw it at the first split when friends in central area were forced off to a school much further away (or to private school). We saw it again when the north-end advocates for being able to decide whatever for SNAPP without any regard to what happens to elementary APP in the south. Even here, when you profess such shock at my words, it is at the same time QA/Magnolia parents fight to stay in the north regardless of whether that is best for APP as a whole. Yes, we are divided and fighting over scraps.

It would be absolutely fantastic for the community to regain its strength and start actually lobbying for the program as a whole. That might slow the district from further shredding of our formally great program.

CCM said...

I would appreciate it if you are going to quote my comment that you include it in its totality.

If you read what I wrote, what I am advocating for is saving the APP program from becoming little more than a fragment of what it once was...and maybe it's already too late for that as everyone is assuming a "duck and cover" mentality.

Truly, I agree with "seriously" that if your child needs the APP program, you will send them wherever they need to go, as so many families did over the past 20 years.

I'm voting for the big picture and if FACMAC thinks that switching assignment areas for some kids would improve the overall program then it would get my vote.

Anonymous said...

I'm a TM parent and I think the school could handle a few more APP kids. It would mean more portables but maybe fewer split grade classes (a decent trade in my opinion). But I can totally understand why QA/Magnolia would not want to go south - it really doesn't make geographic sense. Although note to QA Mom - TM is only a few blocks from WMS so it is no more of a haul than WMS would be.

Another TM perspective

Anonymous said...

WMS was always a haul from QA/Magnolia. Heading both South and crossing East over I-5 takes a solid 30 - 45 mins, often over an hour via bus and during rush hour. With all the Mercer activity and the general increase in traffic, it has gottten significantly worse. Of course, as someone pointed out on this thread, parents will do whatever they have to do to get their kids the education they need. But now that we DO have a super convenient North end location for Elementary and MS APP, and even Ingraham HS, why on earth would we need to pluck the QA/Mag APP kids and include them in APP South? The next nabe south of QA/MAg is downtown/Belltown, which doesnt have many kids, and is much closer to WMS and TM. After that everything is truly South and Central. From my experience, there have traditionally been about 30-35 elementary kids + about 20-25 MS kids total on the QA/Mag busses. So I dont think this would be a super-productive or efficient capacity control maneuver. I will ask again what someone else posted: Charlie Mas (who first posted this info above): is this an idea yr positing, or is it being considered by the District as a means of capacity control? Appreciate some clarity here, cause we can debate this all day, but who cares unless those who make these decisions are actually considering the options?
-parent

Anonymous said...

Actually re the bus numbers above: I realized that for MS, this yr the QA bus doesnt include Magnolia kids (in past years for Lowell they lumped QA and Magnolia into two busses both which ran through QA). SO I dont really know how many MS kids go to APP HIMS from Magnolia, but anectodally I dont think its more than 15 or so....anyways this info can easily be procured.

Anonymous said...

This year APP students from Magnolia:
6th graders: 5
7 th graders: 6
8 th graders: 5
Total: 16
They are all riding the same bus: 503
- Magnolia parent

Anonymous said...

Are they running one bus for 16 Magnolia students to Hamilton? A sixty passenger bus for 16 kids? Really? Please tell me they pick up some other kids along the way.

Anonymous said...

"Are they running one bus for 16 Magnolia students to Hamilton? A sixty passenger bus for 16 kids? Really? Please tell me they pick up some other kids along the way."
Unfortunately I think this is the case, take 1-2 students minus or plus, according to my student. They are not picking up more students in QA. So the ride seems really short (if I drive it is only 10 min less).

Anonymous said...

Im sure theres a lot more Mag kids riding the elementary bus to L@L. In MS, starting the day at 7:50 AM, its easier for parents and kids both to drop their kids at school and then head to work. with a start time of 7:50AM, even an extra 10 mins in the AM is much appreciated for kids getting ready. BTW, the QA bus to HIMS is pretty full - I think about 40 -45 kids.

Anonymous said...

There are about 20 elementary kids riding the bus to Lincoln from Magnolia. There could be a few more but I think more parents driving the kids because of the long drive (45-50 min from the community stop) and long wait sometimes for the bus (the afternoon drive was crazy in the beginning of the year, sometimes the bus was an hour(!) late).
So that bus is not full either. But HIMS starts at 7 50am and Lowell @ Lincoln starts at 9 25am in the morning. The afternoon schedule is different also: Hamilton ends at 2 20pm (or 4 30pm with the after school program) and Lincoln ends at 3 35pm. There is no way to put these 2 groups of kids together in one bus neither in the morning, nor in the afternoon without changing one school's schedule.

Anonymous said...

My HIMS student heard from the bus driver today that next year they will combine QA and Magnolia students in one bus. So much for the shorter drive for the Magnolia students if this is true. I am curious to know how could the bus driver state this to the students when it seems to me that so much going on with the transportation decisions in the district.

Anonymous said...

Is there an ETA on what the ALPTF recommendation for SNAPP elementary placement (decided 5/24) is?

- Constanze

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know more about this past safety violation at Lincoln? (it's referenced in a 2005 report from Seattle PI)

Last summer, as workers were fixing up Lincoln High School, the Department of Labor and Industries cited the district for two "serious" asbestos-exposure violations and fined it $5,400.

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Seattle-schools-assailed-for-response-to-mold-and-1175430.php#ixzz1wTgO5ymY

Anonymous said...

An additional reference from the Seattle Times:

Schools to Get Rid of Mold and Asbestos
by Nick Perry (6/14/2005):

Last October, Labor and Industries fined Seattle Public Schools $5,400 for failing to ensure that damaged asbestos was repaired, removed or labeled at the old Lincoln High School building in Wallingford. Roosevelt High School students are being housed there while their school undergoes an $84.5 million renovation.

So...has it since been fixed?

Anonymous said...

My understanding is that the green house on the front lawn that is fenced off is what has asbestos. No, it has not been removed. Instead it is fenced off. I have two children at Lincoln, I am not concerned. Not because I don't care, but because the asbestos is not friable and so does not pose a health risk as long as it is unperturbed. That is why I am STEONGLY against the District doing a "renovation in place", which would be District parlance for renovating while the kids are in the building. Don't want them tearing that green house down while my kids attend the property.
-- signed, I could be wrong, but think i'm right

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know when plans will be shared for activities for incoming L@L APP 1st graders? I don't want to miss any opportunities for my child to start getting to know new friends, and I'd like to get some dates on the calendar before our summer fills up.

Anonymous said...

I don't know exactly when, but emails to incoming families will be sent over the summer regarding get togethers for new L@L families. Make sure you have sent your information to SNAPP pta (directions are on the website) so that you receive the updates.

Anonymous said...

Any word on why the District won't release the Advanced Learning Task Force recommendations?

Wondering

Anonymous said...

Any word on teacher assignments for APP/HIMS next year? Will 6th grade see any change? What about 7th grade?

Anonymous said...

Did the AL task force look at modifying APP entrance requirements?
--APP in ALO

Anonymous said...

On the Save Our Schools blog, there's a theory floating around that the District is sitting on the Advanced Learning Task Force Report and doesn't want to release it until school is out. I'd love to know if there's any truth to this.

Matt

Anonymous said...

Just heard from my daughter that Ms. McClurg won't be returning to Hamilton as she is moving to California to be closer to a family member who has cancer. My daughter really liked her - I'm sorry she's leaving.

Matt

Anonymous said...

Yes its a shame that M McClurg is leaving, she was one of the best 6th gr LA/SS teachers. They are hiring several new teachers, incl an additional LA/SS and Spanish teacher. The gd news is that Ms McClurg was orig hired by current Principal Carter, so hopefully the new hires will be equally good. There are current HIMS parents on the hiring committee as well. The teachers at HIMS that I would classify as poor teachers have all been there well, well before Carter arrived, the ones I know of in the APP program that are sub-par teachers have mostly been there over 10 years.

Anonymous said...

TM parents, does anyone know or have an informed opinion about the new math curriculum that has been adopted for next year? I am unable to make the informational sessions this coming week, so would appreciate any insights or even a few points following the sessions. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Uh, new math curriculum? Lowell APP parents were told that they couldn't ask for a different math curriculum because it would then be different than TM. Was that just a load of you know what?

suep. said...

There are current HIMS parents on the hiring committee as well.

Are you sure? How can we find out who's on the committee? (Last year, it seemed there weren't any parents on the hiring committee.)

Uh, new math curriculum? Lowell APP parents were told that they couldn't ask for a different math curriculum because it would then be different than TM. Was that just a load of you know what?

I second that emotion. Why not Singapore or Saxon math for L@L? Each year there are parents who ask for it, and murmurs of Lowell's two esteemed principals possibly supporting it, and then, nothing.

I've heard a number of rationales and excuses for why things are the way they are at L@L (ranging from why the rest of the abbreviated lunch room can't be reclaimed from Kids Co. even though L@L is adding 100 more kids next year and needs more lunchroom space, to why a 5th grade master teacher is suddenly retiring this year). Your suspicions may well be justified.

Anonymous said...

Why not Saxon, or Singapore, or ?, for the entire District?

According to TM's calendar, the meeting is about the Common Core Math Standards.

Anonymous said...

@ Sue P - why would you think Kids Co no longer needs its space (and thus could be given to the lunch room? I will be sending my child to L@L in the Fall and am counting on having a before/after school program on-site (and thus have enrolled him at Kids Co).

Mary

suep. said...

Mary, Kids Co's space was carved out of the school lunch room.

Perhaps that decision was made when there were fewer kids in the building. That's no longer the case.

I didn't say Kids Co. doesn't need space. I'm questioning whether it should continue to be allowed to take up half of the school lunch room when L@L is adding about 100 more kids and the current allocated lunch space is already crowded and the kids have to eat in shifts.

I'm suggesting it would make sense to give the L@L kids the entire lunch room space back (where the kitchen is and where food is served) and move Kids Co. to another part of the building.

It's a large building with multiple wings and will be half-empty next year (McDonald is moving out), so there should be other space available for childcare.

If not, I question why the needs of a private before/after school program that serves some kids should take priority over the needs of all the students in the school.

annoyed said...

Hey Sue - I'm sorry I can't afford to be a stay-at-home mom. Your comment is obnoxious.

Boys and Girls club at our old school was in the cafeteria, but it didn't take away any of the cafeteria space during the school day.

Anonymous said...

Annoyed,

Do you know the set up of the Lincoln cafeteria? I have had my disagreements with comments by Sue in the past, but this is really benign. All she is saying is a fact - Kids Co was allowed to build their room in half of the former cafeteria space. If you look at the Lincoln cafeteria, it is obvious that it is much smaller than would be required for an actual high school. The first time I saw it I wondered how it could've possibly been the cafeteria for Hamilton and Garfield when they were housed there - it's way too small. I then find out that Kids Co was given half the space for their program. This is not Kids Co's fault, it's yet another example of short-sighted planning by the district. The fact remains that it now limits the size of the cafeteria when space is now needed for 530 kids.

That's wonderful that at your last school the Boys and girls club worked out great. Kids Co has solid walls which cannot be moved to accomodate the crowds at lunch.

I am not sure how this issue should be handled. I understand that Kids Co paid their own money to build the space as they would like it. That complicates things quite a bit.

-sheesh

Anonymous said...

Wasn't this one of the problems with the overcrowding at Lowell? Three lunches couldn't accommodate the numbers of students without violating fire code. By my rough calculations, the L@L lunchroom was already at fire code capacity this year. Why Kids Co. was allowed to take space from the lunchroom in a way that reduced its daytime use is perplexing.

Anonymous said...

I think the larger issue re: L@L, lunchroom and Kids Co is whether or not L@L is going to be staying at Lincoln for the next 5 years - and when is the District going to come out and officially say it. If the District would actually make a decision and it was official that APP was staying at Lincoln for 5 years, then we could have a reasonable discussion about what the best options are for the cafeteria and for Kids Co. If however, APP is only going to stay at Lincoln for the 2012-13 school year, then there's little reason to invest capital $ to move Kids Co to a different part of the building.

I can't imagine APP would move out of Lowell after 2012-13 (since there's no place for it to go) - but it certainly would be nice for the District to actually come out with an official decision. What is holding them up??

Matt

Anonymous said...

Matt-

One thing - BEXIV.

If BEX isn't approved, there is literally no where for SNAPP to go. A home for APP depends 100% on this passing. If it doesn't pass, I don't know what will happen with either elementary or middle APP. Middle APP has got to get kicked out of Hamilton pretty soon.

-Sheesh

Anonymous said...

Sheesh - I completely agree. But if the BEX IV Levy doesn't pass, I would think that APP would have to stay at Lincoln until some sort of levy does pass. If the levy fails, the district won't have money to remodel schools (and thus won't need Lincoln to house other kids). And the District doesn't have 500 empty seats for all the north-end APP kids to go.

I don't see why the District doesn't say "North-end APP will be at Lincoln until a levy passes and new capacity is built. The earliest date that new capacity will be online is X date - and so Lincoln is north APP's home until then."

But if the District won't budge off the "APP is staying at Lincoln until 2013" line and then is silent about what happens after 2013, it's hard to get $ to improve the play ground and possibly move Kids Co to another location in order to increase the size of the lunch room.

Matt

Charlie Mas said...

According to the policy review calendar the Board's curriculum and instruction policy committee is scheduled to consider and discuss revisions to the Advanced Learning policy at their meeting on June 25.

Interested people might want to be there to read the proposed revisions from staff and to hear the three members of the committee discuss changes in the policy.

Charlie Mas said...

I find the drama over the possibility that McClure service area APP students would be shifted to the southern cohort a bit overblown.

Let's remember that none of these folks had any trouble sending their kids to Lowell and Washington before. Thurgood Marshall is not far from Lowell and Washington hasn't moved.

As for the claim that APP is working well at Thurgood Marshall, that's whistling in the dark. There are only 49 students from the attendance area at Thurgood Marshall - the lowest number (by far!) for any attendance area school. Even so, the school is bursting at the seams and must add portables for next year. What would happen if families living in that area suddenly decided to accept their default assignment to Thurgood Marshall?

The capacity crisis that we saw at Lowell will be repeated at Thurgood Marshall. It is only a couple years behind because Thurgood Marshall Elementary had such a poor reputation and because the District created unbalanced APP cohorts by including the McClure service area students in the northern cohort.

Anonymous said...

Is reassignment of the McClure service area COMING or was this purely hypothetical? Per the reasoning of Charlie and others in this thread, such reassignment would (a) hasten the south cohort's own capacity problem; and (b) increase transportation times and costs for the McClure service area kids. It is hard to believe that the capacity relief garnered for the north would be worth those hurdles.

Charlie, do you know what the suggested policy changes will be? Any hints from the ALPTF?

- Constanze

Anonymous said...

This doesnt make sense to me. Why stop at the ship canal? Why not include South Wallingford or South U-District kids in a reassignment to South APP? Are you looking at overcrowding in just elementary or also middle school? Is WMS overcrowded as well? How many APP kids, Elementary and MS, are in the McClure service area? It doesnt seem like it would be enough to provide so much releief to the overcrowding at Hamilton and L@L, to single out that one group of kids and force them to split off again to another school....right? Also echoing the poster above: is this speculation on Charlie's part or is this a real option being discussed by the Board? as a current L@L parent I can attest that the bus ride to Lincoln is about 15 mins; the ride to Cap Hill was 45 - 55 mins depending on which route taken. All the way to TM or WMS will be even worse with the new standards. Why are you pushing for this Charlie?
-parent

Charlie Mas said...

This is not a Board decision. This is a superintendent decision.

The capacity issues are already at Thurgood Marshall (two portables added for next year), they aren't just coming soon, so there's no worry about hastening it.

The bus ride to Thurgood Marshall and Washington are long? Please don't go to the families from Arbor Heights for sympathy. Why are families in the McClure service area somehow guaranteed a short bus ride when the district's commitment to everyone is 45 minutes or less?

How long do you think it will take a bus to get from Sand Point to Wilson?

By the way, I advocated for putting the south-end elementary program at South Lake Union. Would that make it more attractive? Is this really about the commute time?

None of this is decided and none of it will be decided any time soon. When it happens, however, you probably won't get much warning or input and the decision will come from the superintendent, not the Board.

If the District does this they will do it for their own reasons, such as balancing the cohorts and reducing the enrollment at Wilson. Try not to take it personally; it isn't meant that way.