Wednesday, December 5, 2012

What will happen to Lincoln APP 5th grade?

A watchful parent points to slide 29 of a recent SPS capacity planning presentation (PDF) which says that the solution to overcapacity at Hamilton is to either keep current 5th graders at Lincoln APP for another year (so, 6th grade would be at Lincoln APP) or move them to John Marshall (instead of having them go to Hamilton).

Either way, looks like APP 5th graders in the north might be getting some disruption, and not sure this has been discussed much publicly yet.

81 comments :

Anonymous said...

Without discussing how horrible I think both "solutions" are, I don't get where other incoming APP 6th graders would go. Do they go to Lincoln (or JM) as well?

Anonymous said...

The district should probably have said all APP 6th graders would go to Lincoln or Marshall. They just wouldn't have the co-hort size needed to run a full schedule at both sites.

There were rumors this would happen this year, but everyone said it would just be too hard to figure out all the contingencies. I guess it's desperate times...

HIMS parent

Anonymous said...

...that's one way to control APP numbers. Completely disenfranchise the cohort that has already been through the split and the move to Lincoln. Make Eckstein look like a better option. Of course, there's no room at Eckstein.

Anonymous said...

If they stayed at Lincoln, would it be on an elementary school or a middle school model? 6th grade was part of elementary school when I was a kid, and that seemed to work ok. Trying to do a middle school experience for one grade with elementary kids seems, um, difficult to get right.

Anonymous said...

In the given scenarios, what would happen the following year? Would they move to Hamilton for 7-8, stay at the interim site as a roll-up, or is there another split on the way?

Charlie Mas said...

Not only is this a remarkably bad idea, and not only does it send a dreadful message, it is doomed to fail.

Bad idea. If this is were the best way to serve 6th grade APP students, that's how we would be doing it. This is a terrible way to serve these students. Why just APP? Why not divert all of the incoming Hamilton 6th grade to another school? If it's good for APP it's good for everyone, right? They won't do it because it serves the students poorly. So why serve the APP students this way?

Bad message. This clearly sends the message that APP is easily detached from Hamilton and is not an integrated part of the school or the school community. Nice.

Doomed to fail. Every single APP-eligible student is also Spectrum-eligible and they retain their APP eligibility if they are enrolled in a Spectrum program. So any of the APP @ Lincoln students who lives in the Hamilton attendance area could enroll at Hamilton anyway by requesting a Spectrum assignment there. And, under the new rules, the District has to grant them admission to the school. Of course, not all of the APP at Lincoln students live in the Hamilton attendance area, but it's not like there's room for them at Eckstein or Whitman either. And if enough of them choose the comprehensive middle school Spectrum option, then it will cost a fortune to operate an APP-only 6th grade for just a few students at Marshall.

Anonymous said...

Charlie:
I totally agree with you. What can we do? It seems to me we have more time (not like at the time of the Lowell - Lincoln move), so we should use this time wisely. But how?
APP parent

kellie said...

This is a de facto decision to make a K8 not a K6. The enrollment pressure at Hamilton is worse for 2014 and much worse for 2015 when the larger language immersion cohorts move up.

Anonymous said...

Kellie-

Could you please clarify? Are you saying it's your belief that the district will turn Lincoln into an APP 1-8 for several years? Do you think the APP kids currently in 6th and 7th grades at HIMS could potentially be moved to Lincoln (or move back for the current 6th graders) for next year?

I admit that when I first heard this "plan" I thought back to the initial proposal to move the 4th and 5th grades from Lowell to Lincoln. Parents would never go for that, and I doubt they'll go for this either.

-APP HIMS Parent

Anonymous said...

Do all SNAPP 5th grade parents know about this plan? I'm reading as a K parent who was likely to send my child to APP next year...and I feel like the program is slipping away and I just wonder if it's silly to chase the "dream" of "Lowell" at this point. It's depressing to observe all the chaos around the program and I just hope there are still happy APP kids out there that are still better off than at their neighborhood school.

Anonymous said...

What happens to APP eligible 5th graders who are planning on going to Hamilton APP in 6th grade? I assume they would also go to Lincoln/John Marshall?

Anonymous said...

To 1:44 pm - our son moved to Lincoln this year (he's in second grade). Overall, we are very happy that we made the switch - it's a much better fit for him than our neighborhood school was. And I say this as a parent with an older child that went to the same neighborhood school through 5th grade. Some kids really need the APP community - and our youngest is an example of this.

If the Levy passes and if the District follows through on their commitments (two BIG ifs), there should be permanent elementary and middle schools for APP at the Wilson-Pacific site.

Mom of 2

kellie said...

If somehow APP as a K6 magically fixes Hamilton, the question is for how long? The 2014 cohort from feeder schools is larger and 2015 larger still.

It is 5 years until the new middle schools come online. The K6 solution certainly won't hold 5 years.

NESeattleMom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NESeattleMom said...

If they put APP 6th graders at Lincoln as a Hamilton annex, I hope those students will have access to the Hamilton world languages, international arts, art, music, PE, etc.

Anonymous said...

NE Seattle Mom-

Don't count on it. I have been through many APP moves with the district (this will be the third in five years) and the district promises all sorts of things and then you hear that it's too expensive.

Expect nothing from the district. You won't be disappointed.

-realist

Anonymous said...

The Lincoln building has perfectly adequate band and orchestra rooms at the southeast corner closest to HIMS. Since the larger number of musicians are APP students, why not have the non-APP kids walk up from HIMS, and have the APP kids walk to HIMS for foreign language. If kids from all groups are involved in the travelling, it will feel more like one school community with an annex for music.

open ears

Anonymous said...

The idea that students could walk back and forth for one period, and still have time for class, doesn't seem possible. A class is 50 min. long, with a 5 min. passing period. You'd need another 10 min. to travel back and forth between buildings. You'd be left with a 40 min. class. How could you get the needed contact hours? Am I missing something?

NESeattleMom said...

I wonder how many of the 600 music students at HIMS are APP. I know quite a few are Spectrum, plus the program is definitely growing. I wonder if APP is split out if there will be enough of a cohort for music. It is so fantastic that there are musical choices that have all the levels for more experienced musicians and for those who are just beginning. I think if the number was cut in half it would lose a lot of the oomph.

Anonymous said...

Subtle encouragement to go back to your NSAP middle school? North end parents should consider that option. Just stipulate that APP level work be available for kids. 6th graders are in Algebra 1 at regular middle schools and that is three years ahead, so the district can and will accommodate at least some level of APP work at these schools. Push for more and get the kids back in the neighborhood.

June

Anonymous said...

Come to the Tuesday Dec 11th meeting at JSCEE and voice your concerns about the suggestion that the fifth graders at Lincoln won't get to graduate to Hamilton this September. The District needs to hear from parents about how this affects students and communities. The meeting is from 7pm to 8:30pm. It is an important one. Now is the time to make your voice heard BEFORE the District finalizes their September plans.
-stop the madness

Anonymous said...

What does the second half of this mean? Locate which students at John Marshall?

A)Keep current 5th grade students at APP at Lincoln
B)Locate students (TBD) at annex site (John Marshall)

hschinske said...

In which schools are 6th graders getting algebra 1? Apart from Washington and Hamilton (and we know about the struggle at Hamilton), the only middle school I've heard of where that was ever possible (and I'm not sure it was available in all years) was Eckstein.

Helen Schinske

APP Parent of 2nd Grade Student said...

1) Do not want to miss out on Hamilton's music program.
2) Do not like the idea of John Marshall given proximity to highway (air quality concerns.)
3) May consider return to our neighborhood school to avoid having my son in a transitional school for most of his K-8 education.
4) Really unfortunate that APP is not a priority at SPS.

Anonymous said...

Still confused. Are they talking about moving APP elementary or middle school to John Marshall?

Anonymous said...

What a pathetic joke this allis.

_Annie

Anonymous said...

A 1-8 has been asked for by the APP parents a lot over the years. Is this an opportunity for that to begin?

Anonymous said...

I am confused. Is this actually happening - has "the district" confirmed that the MS APP program will no longer be housed at Hamilton? If so, are there any specifics as to when this is set to happen...or are all the comments posted here with ideas about how to accomodate this shift just speculation? Can someone who has actual knowledge of district plans for 2013 or beyond please confirm what's happening? Thanks.
-new APP parents

Anonymous said...

You can go to the district meeting tonight for more info. No, not all APP parents have been asking for a 1-8. We signed up for a pathway that leads to a comprehensive middle school.

Anonymous said...

There is a meeting tonight at JSIS, plus SaveSeattleSchools posted this:

Northeast Region Community Meeting
Monday, December 17th 6:30-8pm
Olympic Hills Elementary School

Anonymous said...

Correction - tonight's meeting is at the John Stanford Center, not JSIS.

Anonymous said...

To the new APP parents,
Yes, the current district proposal (set forth in their documents, linked on SPS site) show two possibilities for Lincoln's APP 5th graders (and presumably classes following) to go to either a standalone site for 6th grade (marshall) or stay at Lincoln. Going to Hamilton does not appear to be on the table. We hope to get more info tonight. Please come to the meeting at the John Stanford Center tonight. Welcome to the yearly chaos that is APP. I'm not overly optimistic - any other suggestion we put forth will be viewed as elistist, exclusionary or throwing another population under the bus. APP kids are the moveable pieces to solve district problems because we're an unpopular problem. Our 5th grade is only about 100 kids - who cares if they lose an adqueate middle school experience? Better them than anyone else, as they are all wealthy, privileged and probably not nice kids, according to the district.

-feeling slightly bitter today

Anonymous said...

-feeling slightly bitter today
"Our 5th grade is only about 100 kids" (APP @ Lincoln)

And what will happen with all those APP students who decide to join to the APP program only in 6th grade?
In Hamilton in the last couple of years the APP population doubled up from the other schools (like West Woodland).
-the numbers are not adding up - for the district

NESeattleMom said...

What time is the meeting tonight at the John Stanford Center?

Anonymous said...

I thought that the proposal was either keep the current APP sixth graders at Lincoln or move a TBD group of students from Hamilton to an annex (i.e. John Marshall). I would have thought that if they had meant APP students as the annexed group, they would have said APP. I wonder how many parents of current and future Hamilton students (including non-APP) know that the school district is considering moving their students out of Hamilton.

--Current Lincoln and Hamilton mom

Anonymous said...

_Annie
This is in fact neither pathetic nor a joke. This is in 2012 in the Seattle School District (3 years after they decided to close down many schools). Welcome!
APP parent

Anonymous said...

So the districtis saying 5th graders will not move to HIMS.
The HIMs principal is saying, "Our (math)classes will be mixed grade level courses (either 6th & 7th grades or 7th & 8th grades) with an aligned curriculum across classrooms."

Anybody see how that is gonna work?

Anonymous said...

Does anybody know what the "6th grade math placement recommendations and/or requirements for the 2013-14 school year," are for APP 5th graders referenced in the email from the HIMs principal.

Anonymous said...

Here are the recommendations. Note they are the SAME as last year (with the bonus that the current 5th graders will know they are being given a high-stakes test, unlike last year's 5th graders). Even though current 6th graders in Alg 1 not from APP elementary are struggling in the Alg 1 classes, no changes are being made there. Why don't they actually give an algebra readiness test? It would be much better for the kids. It's not good to place kids in a class in which they may struggle. There apparently is still no way to appeal and no teacher recommendations.

CMP 1 6th
Grade MAP overall RIT 100 – 230 (recommended)
CMP 2 7th
Grade MAP overall RIT 231 – 239 (recommended)*
CMP 3 8th
Grade MAP overall RIT 240 – 249 (recommended)*
Algebra 1 9th Grade MAP over all RIT 250 or higher (REQUIRED)
Geometry 10th
Grade Passing score on Algebra End of Course Exam**
Algebra 2 11th
Grade Passing score on Algebra and Geometry End of Course Exam**

Anonymous said...

Currently no 6th grader can take Algebra I, the cap is CPM 8th grade. This of course changes that since HIMS now states, very clear, that any student with a MAP score of 250 or higher places into Alegra I.

Works both ways.

Anonymous said...

Works both ways-

Are you saying the current 6th graders who ARE in Algebra 1 aren't in the class? There are over 40 6th graders currently taking Alg 1 at HIMS.

Yes, it's good Adv Learning got this done, but it could be done far better. MAP is not an Alg 1 pre course test.

-APP Parent

Anonymous said...

Yes, it's good Adv Learning got this done, but it could be done far better. MAP is not an Alg 1 pre course test.

Agree. There should be multiple measures. What's concerning to me are the skill gaps that won't be caught prior to a student enrolling in Algebra. With an algebra readiness test, at least parents know what skills need reinforcement prior to enrolling in Algebra I. With MAP, you really have little idea.

Anonymous said...

I will add that middle school math placement is inconsistent district wide. It's not an issue limited to APP students. Some schools have additional placement tests at the beginning of the school year, and some don't.

Getting to the proposal to split off 6th graders...each grade band would need access to three levels of math - the APP pathway, one year ahead, and one year behind. There are some students that don't follow the APP math pathway. They can accelerate one year, or follow the Spectrum pathway.

Anonymous said...

I have also heard that some 6th graders are really having a hard time in Alg 1 at HIMS now. I don't understand how you can go from 5th grade EDM to Alg 1 and succeed. As bad as CMP is, at least it covers a bit of pre-algebra.

-concerned

Anonymous said...

My understanding is that APP Math at HIMS was only offered at a two year acceleration, meaning that

6th - 8th CMP
7th - Alg 1
8th - Geo

Did that change this year so that 40 students are in Alg 1- that seems like a lot of kids working three years ahead?

What is the WMS math offerings for APP?

Anonymous said...

" 5th grade EDM to Alg 1 and succeed. As bad as CMP is, at least it covers a bit of pre-algebra."

APP 5th grade should use CMP for 4th, 5th grades.

Spectrum 5th grade use CMP for 5th grade.

Gen ed students used EDM for 5th grade.


Anonymous said...

To see the whole picture about Algebra 1 in 6th grade, I would like to add that there are students also from the other end of the spectrum, who missed the cutoff last year with only a few points and are home schooled in Algebra 1 (and doing great!).
Clearly, the MAP test in 5th grade is not predictive at all to tell how any student will do in Algebra 1 in 6th grade.
The district would need to re-think the criteria (like adding the teacher's recommendation and other measures with a possible appeal process also!)
-just saying

Anonymous said...

"Did that change this year so that 40 students are in Alg 1- that seems like a lot of kids working three years ahead?

What is the WMS math offerings for APP?"

Yes, this changed for this year. I am sure you can do a search on this site and see all the discussions from last year about it. People were and still are angry about how these decisions are made. HIMS and WMS (as well as all the middle schools in the district) are supposed to be using the same entrance criteria.

It is a lot of students because the MAP is a terrible predictor of success. There are even more kids who qualified. I know several parents who kept their kids on the 2 year ahead path because they were concerned that their kids didn't have enough pre-algebra to succeed in Alg 1.

-concerned

Anonymous said...

Why are there kids in APP who are not following the APP track? Part of the problem with APP is that it has gotten to be so huge with the varying barriers to entry. It would seem really clear that if a student is not working at the APP level, in either subject (given you have to test in in both math and verbal/LA), that would be a good point to exit the kid from APP. You can't do the work, you can't be in the program. May sound tough, but so are the numbers and consequent tough solutions the district is having to come up with to manage the exploding APP population.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 4 45pm:
The problem is NOT (or not only!) the exploding APP population.
The problem IS the exploding SSD student population. Until everybody understands this very simple matter, we will fight with each other over the programs.
Because the APP students have to go SOMEWHERE, in a school, but the district didn't count them anywhere. Like they don't exist. BUT THEY DO. And if they go back to their neighborhood school, that school will explode in most cases.
-the numbers are not adding up - for the district


Anonymous said...

But that doesn't answer the question - why are there kids in APP who not following the APP track? If a student is not as gifted in 6th grade as they were in kindergarten, do they belong in the program? I know a student who struggled terribly in 6th grade APP math, is in regular math in 8th, and retains the preference to go to Garfield or Ingraham. Does that student really NEED that pathway? Numbers aside, there is a lack of logic. Kids who do not need the academic acceleration should not be in APP. Even if they seemed pretty darn smart when they were 6.

Anonymous said...

ANd now with HIMS using mix grade math and MAPS to place students, there essentially is no APP-Math at HIMS anymore. May as well go to Eckstien, if you live closer at least there is no talk of moving those 6th graders out of the building.

Anonymous said...

Math is NOT part of app in middle school. everyone can test into any math class regardless of program. Only LA/SS and science are considered APP after elementary.


parent

Anonymous said...

And at HIMS some non-APP students also are in LA/SS APP classes.

down to Science, I guess.

hschinske said...

There have always been kids in APP who moved down or up a notch in math when they went into middle school. Plenty of extraordinarily intelligent people struggle in one area -- C.S. Lewis would never have made it into Oxford if a particular math exam hadn't been waived for ex-servicemen. These days he'd probably be considered to have a specific learning disability, just as many brilliant people have dyslexia.

Helen Schinske

Anonymous said...

So what is APP in MS? And could we move to a non-APP MS model if the other comprehensive MS could offer the same acceleration?

Then would we need the Garfield and IHS pathways or could we move to a test in at 9th grade model?

Additionally if rising 5th graders don't go to HIMS, won't that then impact non-APP student counting on having the acceleration?

Anonymous said...

Anon at 6:15-

I had heard that last year the HIMS registrar was allowing parents to place kids in APP cuz they wanted to. I was told last year that that was no longer allowed to happen. Do you know 100% positively that it is still happening. If so, I think a talk with AL is in order. That is against the rules of the program and goes along way to weaken the program further.

-APP parent

Anonymous said...

Well, I would have to assume that non-APP student who were placed in LA/SS APP clases last year would continue that track. I don't know what happened this year with 6th grade.

Anonymous said...

I was told all the kids placed in the APP classes last year in error were removed. Is that not the case?

Anonymous said...

"I was told all the kids placed in the APP classes last year in error were removed. Is that not the case?"

No clue, but I hope not. Once these kids started a track they should be allowed to finish, versus repeating any curriculum.

Schools should not take their mistakes out on the students.

I know I know....

Anonymous said...

I will clarify further. I was told non APP kids were placed in APP class at the beginning of last year. The kids were removed within days. From what I understand, they were not allowed to finish out the year. I hope that's the case.

-APP Parent

Anonymous said...

APP parent, if non APP kids can score the distirct MAP guidlines to be in advanced math, they should be there, APP label or not. The same would be true for APP students that don't make the cut. Sure teacher's input and other measures should be used, but for all kids. Same should be true for LA/SS and science. For the hardcore science minded people, read up on brain/cognitive thinking. It's not a fixed thing. That's why testing for APP at K-1 is fine, but we should be reevaluating kids at MS too. My mind is changing about keeping APP purely for APP kids. I am beginning to realize it's better letting ability determine the coursework and not the APP label.

Anonymous said...

There is a scientific reason behind testing the students twice to see their abilities: once in the early years (K-6) and another time later (7-12), exactly how the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth Program is doing it.
- why not here (instead of labeling students for "life"?)

Anonymous said...

According to last night's presentation, the math classes at Hamilton next year will be ability based. The classes will be designated CMP1, CMP2, CMP3, Algebra 1, etc, and a CMP3 class could be made up of APP 6th graders and Spectrum (or non-Spectrum) 7th graders. The way I understood it, an Algebra 1 class could be 6th graders mixed with 7th graders, or 7th graders mixed with 8th graders. This means that there won't be just one teacher covering math for all of the incoming APP 6th graders.

Well, that's the plan, without the annexation of APP students.

Anonymous said...

Having the APP or Spectrum label means there have been multiple measures in order to make the best class placement for the student. It's more about making sure students can be successful if they are accelerated, not about keeping APP or Spectrum exclusive. If the only measure for placement is MAP, are the chances of misplacing students greater?

Anonymous said...

Comments from the capacity meeting? Will parents be on pins and needles for the next 3 months? The next 6 months? Heck, their entire time in APP?

Anonymous said...

" If the only measure for placement is MAP, are the chances of misplacing students greater?"

My students MAPS scores are all over the place in Reading, consistant in Math.

On the otherhand, we tested twice, first time stayed at our school, second time moved to APP for MS. Each time the results were consistant. So I was confident in the placement.

So I would say that MAPS probably not the best placement tool. Also wonder if it was supposed to be used for placement, I thought it was to measure progress along the way?

Anonymous said...

"According to last night's presentation, the math classes at Hamilton next year will be ability based. The classes will be designated CMP1, CMP2, CMP3, Algebra 1, etc, and a CMP3 class could be made up of APP 6th graders and Spectrum (or non-Spectrum) 7th graders. "

So here's my question: what does it matter if they are advanced if the curriculum is lousy? I'm thinking of opting out of in-school math, regardless, and doing Art of Problem Solving on-line.

What curriculum is used for Algebra? Is it as bad as CMP? I have a 5th grader who's scored above 250 for 3 consecutive MAP tests (twice as a 4th grader), loves math, loves Math Olympiad extra work we do together, and has a "code breaker" puzzle book that is really Algebra, which she loves. We did Singapore all the way through 6B together b/c the EDM at school was so low for her.

So what do we do? If she can get into Algebra, do we leave well enough alone?

Meanwhile, this child scores in the 99% of the language portion of the COGAT but cannot score high enough to qualify for APP on the quant portion of the test. Frustrating. We are going to get her privately tested, but with the doubts about APP, I wonder if we should stick with the neighborhood MS, which has Spectrum.

Part of our decision is social, because she's got so many interests that her classmates don't share. She has friends, but we wonder if she wouldn't like being in a class with kids who want to discuss the kinds of ideas and interests she has (the Ancient World, books, math, etc.)

Any input would be helpful,

Trying to Sort it All Out

Jenn said...

TTSIAO,

Nothing the district uses will compare to the Art of Problem Solving's courses. Have you tried AoPS books at home? The algebra books are much more difficult than typical high-school courses, and they're wonderful for really math-y kids. If the district used AoPS texts, we'd probably have our child in school for math.

Anonymous said...

Questions on the capacity survey...

These are the three options now listed:

- Keeping current 5th grade APP students at APP at Lincoln for 6th grade
- Locating students (TBD) at an annex site (John Marshall)
- Programmatic changes

The "programmatic changes" is completely undefined. What does it mean?

Anonymous said...

More question about the capacity survey:
- why the district thinks that I (or any parent who only knows about the local issues) can tell how to solve the capacity problems in the district? Why don't they hire special people whose job is to solve this kind of a problem if they can't do that themselves (or can't listen to the FACMAC's recommendation)?
- what would happen with those incoming 6th graders next year who are just starting the APP (and were not at Lincoln before?) Will they go to Lincoln for 1 year and then change school again? Or will they go to Hamilton and enjoy the established program there?
- What does it mean: locating students at an annex site? How parents can decide if they don't know the details of this?
- And again: what does "programmatic change" means?
I am sorry, with all these unknown details I am not going to fill out the survey and I encourage the parents (in the same shoe) do the same.

word said...

Just saw the WInter band concert at HIMS last night. It was AWEsome. Four different bands: beginning, cadet, concert and symphonic. Mostly running between 70-80 kids for EACH band. While it does underscore the crowding issue, watching the symphonic band members cheering and clapping for the beginners and vice versa makes me think it is madness to break these kids up again.

Kudos to Daniel Rowe for an inspirational evening.

Anonymous said...

It's a strange survey. I agree that it's probably best to not answer it, but instead show up at Monday's meeting or write a letter directly to the Board. My paranoid self thinks it will be used to justify another yet to be announced "solution" that is just as bad as the others.

word said...

@10:59

The scary thing is that the SPS does employ demographers - who are paid quite a tidy salary.

It was the demographers' suggestion to close a number of the North End schools six years ago (Viewlands Elem. - which then had to be reopened and was extensively (and expensively) vandalized while closed; North Beach Elem. the closing of which parents opposed and has now been supplemented with portables to handle the increase in student numbers).

The lesson here is that whatever projections the district is working with - they are most likely wrong. After all - these are the guys who gave you CMP. It would be better to oppose ANY changes the district proposes simply based on their history of ineptness. I think it would be better to squeeze for a while rather than succumb to another of SPS's "solutions".

My daughter is in 6th grade APP at HIMS and she says "gee, there's a lot of room here....lots of unused lockers."
I know in reality it is crowded but I would be wary of enabling SPS capacity solutions.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the survey, SPS staff wants community input by 12/17, so they can consider it before making a presentation to the Board work session on 12/19.

I agree that the "check the box" proposals are unclear, but there is space at the bottom for you to give "additional feedback." You can give your input in that box and send the form without answering the questions regarding specific proposals.

You can answer questions 1 and 2 about your middle school service area and schools your students currently attend, then either check "no opinion" or write something like "not enough information given to make a choice" for all of question 3.

If you have a concern or opinion on a short-term proposal, PLEASE take the time to express it. It won't take that long, and SPS staff needs to hear loud and clear that their ill-conceived, short term proposal to keep 6th grade APP students at Lincoln next year is unnecessary, and, frankly, unacceptable.

(FYI - I had a problem submitting my form by email, so I printed it out, scanned it and then emailed it as a pdf to capacity@seattleschools.org.)

Fed Up

Anonymous said...

Fed up
I did the same with the survey because I couldn't e-mail it either. And I filled out the first 2 lines and for all the following questions I said: no support. Finally, in the end I wrote my comments. But do you really think, given the 2 day deadline between the 17th and the 19th of December, anyone in the district will be able to read the comments and make a summary of them?
- I highly doubt (and I don't think that was the point of the survey either)

Anonymous said...

I agree that they do not have time to summarize the comments (and that just writing in feedback is not the point of the survey). However, I do think they will tabulate the results in a basic yes/no manner and at least have that information.

Fed Up

Anonymous said...

The survey itself is so indicative of how little the District seems to care about our "input". The "Send" button on the survey doesn't appear to work. I saved the file as a PDF, and the form fields are blank. I tried to copy-and-paste my comments from the online form, and the PDF doesn't allow it. How many parents are going to go to any lengths to submit data to the District when it takes such an effort?

I'm getting to the point where I think the only things we can do to get their attention and stop them from messing with APP is to a.) commit to not having our kids provide MAP scores, and b.) threaten to return our kids to our neighborhood schools. I'd say threaten to leave SPS entirely, but I don't think they'd care as much as if we moved back to neighborhood schools. More capacity problems for them.

Increasingly Angered at the Craven Incompetence

Anonymous said...

There's an interesting post on the "Advanced Learning" thread over at SaveSeattleSchools blog - it talks about the IPP program of years ago, and how it differs from today's APP.

suep. said...

@ Increasingly Angered...

"...I'm getting to the point where I think the only things we can do to get their attention and stop them from messing with APP is to a.) commit to not having our kids provide MAP scores..."

Indeed. How about a mass boycott of MAP, MSP, and the experimental new Common Core State Standards test they are trying out on APP@Lincoln kids this year?

(The way the district is using MAP scores is hurting kids and stifling teaching anyway.)

Opt Out!

That will get the district's attention.

That, and a No vote on the BEX levy.

Anonymous said...

When you opt out, make sure the proctor knows that you have done so, and also say that you are opting out of the make-up exam. Otherwise they'll just catch 'em later with no warning.

open ears