Wednesday, January 23, 2013

Open thread

What's on your mind, APP parents?

Please use the dedicated thread below for discussion of capacity in the north, the possible reopening of Jane Addams, and how that impacts APP. I know that's on everyone's mind, there's a lot of comments on that thread already, so let's keep that discussion together over there.

32 comments :

Anonymous said...

Would it be foolish to hope that the eligibility letters from AL come a few days early?

New To This

Anonymous said...

Not foolish at all! I'm waiting to hear if my K daughter qualifies (though she wasn't given any additional testing, so that may be a bad sign). The letter we received for my son was dated 1/30 last year, so it could be a little longer...
--Impatient Too

Anonymous said...

If your k child was NOT called in for additional testing (reading and math) post CogAt, means they did not hit the necessary mark for APP. Perhaps spectrum, but not APP. You can always appeal after you get your letter, which will be sent Jan. 31, 2013

Anonymous said...

Actually, if your child has MAP scores, they will use those scores and not need to do additional testing.

Anonymous said...

My daughter did have MAP scores (99 & 99), but I understand that those aren't reliable for K, hence the need for additional testing. My hope is that she scored so well on the CogAt, the Powers That Be looked at her MAP scores and decided further testing was unnecessary. My guess is that she wasn't close to the cut-off, and that's why she wasn't called back. We won't appeal in that case.
--Impatient

Anonymous said...

Greg, Can we have a thread for the MAP opt out forms that Freshman are bring home from Garfield in support of the teachers boycott? Not sure how this may tie in with previous crys from for APP to opt out of MAP. This effort is not program specific but apparently Freshman can opt out. I am looking for perspective from other parents.
Thank you!

Greg Linden said...

New thread created, "Opting out of MAP?"

Anonymous said...

@Impatient...reliable or not, they'll use the MAP scores. I know that's how it worked last year. Maybe they do additional testing if the COGAT is high but the MAP isn't. I know they definitely do the additional testing if the child is not enrolled in SPS (since they don't have MAP scores). Good luck.

- Been there

Anonymous said...

Can someone clarify? Will Advanced Learning use the Fall MAP scores for a Kindergartener and Cogat and therefore not do additional testing for the K student?? I had initially thought that they would not be using the MAP scores from Fall since the K's were in their first couple weeks. But now I'm concerned that since my K student has Fall MAP scores on record they would be used. One score was a 94% which would miss the app cutoff. I wasn't concerned at the time of the Fall MAP because I didn't think it mattered for Kindergarteners. I haven't received a phone call for additional testing. Does someone know for sure if AL does or does not use Fall Map scores for Kindergarteners?
-Confused

Anonymous said...

I guess I can only speak from our experience...my daughter's Fall MAP scores were used. They were 99 and 99. That said, if the COGAT is high enough for APP, you can appeal the achievement/MAP scores with private testing. More generally, you can appeal either the COGAT, the achievement/MAP, or both via private testing.

-Been There

Anonymous said...

And to clarify, it was kindergarten Fall MAP scores.

-Been There

Anonymous said...

@Been There, thanks for sharing your experience. I guess we'll see what the Cogat scores are and if they're high enough we will have to decide on scheduling private testing for an additional achievement test and possible appeal. Thanks,
-Confused

Anonymous said...

Actually they are doing things slightly differently with K MAP scores this year vs. last year. Last year, the WINTER MAP testing window was earlier--early enough to use the results for AL. This year, the winter MAP window is too late to use the scores, so they are calling K kids for achievement testing. This is one of the reasons K kids don't need achievement scores to qualify for Spectrum this year. Not worth it, I assume, to do all that one-on-one testing.

Neither this year nor last would they use Fall MAP scores, because not all schools give the Fall MAP. This is stated clearly on the website.

Hope that makes sense.

Also, if your K student has a low score on the Cogat, but you and their teacher have reason to believe they need APP, don't take the Cogat as gospel. It can be very unreliable for kids that young.

-Someone

Anonymous said...

@Someone...thanks for that additional info. After I posted, I wondered whether the Winter Map had been used but couldn't find the actual date that my child took it! I know things can change year to year and as I don't have a stake in it this year, I'm clearly not in the know. I guess for most folks, they are just going to have to wait for those letters and go from there. I can empathize with those waiting. It was agony for me last year as I wondered if my kids would be at the same school. Hope @Impatient and @Confused get your letters soon!

-Been There

NE K Mom said...

We are new to the whole AL process so here are my "beginners questions"... Our school has ALO but not Spectrum so we're considering transferring. How can I find out about the differences in Spectrum programs? The AL website and the individual school websites have very little info. I've read that some schools have merged Spectrum kids into the regular class and others have a separate Spectrum class. The school tours seem geared to K entry not AL so not sure how to get details. Specifically, we'd be looking at Spectrum at Wedgwood or View Ridge. And in the NE can we even get into a Spectrum class or are all these schools already over capacity and not accepting transfers?

Also, if we qualify for APP, is it worth switching schools given the big question mark about the future of the program. APP seems so vulnerable to the whims of the school board, I'm hesitant to give up our spot at our stable neighborhood school (Bryant).

Lori said...

Is there reason to believe that what is on the district website is wrong for this year? Here's what they say about who they will schedule for testing:

Initial Review
Spring MAP data is reviewed for all applicants in grades 1-8. Cognitive testing is administered if MAP scores are at the 85th percentile* or higher. 8th graders applying for the APP/IB program at Ingraham must have MAP scores at the 95th percentile or higher. All kindergarten applicants and non-SPS applicants will be scheduled for the cognitive testing.(See WAC 392-170-050 Screening of nominees).


And then here is what they say about additional achievement testing:

Achievement Testing (if needed)
Completed by early-January. Non-SPS students will be administered an achievement test if cognitive test scores are at the 87th percentile (98th for 8th graders) or higher. SPS kindergarten students who achieve cognitive scores at the 90th percentile or higher do not require achievement testing to qualify for Spectrum. SPS kindergarten students who achieve cognitive scores at or above the 98th percentile will take an achievement test to determine APP eligibility.


Sounds like MAP is irrelevant for Kindergartners and AL program placement.

Lori said...

NE K mom, it's hard to answer your question about whether it's "worth it" or not to move to Lincoln because every kid is different. Ultimately, you need to honestly determine whether your child's needs are being met locally or not.

We moved from a popular NE school to Lowell a few years ago and it was one of the best decisions we've ever made for our child because the program meets not just her academic needs, but her social and emotional needs as well. Despite the chaos, I can't imagine having her in any other SPS school. It was still a bit scary back then to put her on a bus and make her cross the ship canal twice a day (it seemed so far away!) but it turned out to be exactly what she needed.

But other people make decisions for other reasons. I know plenty of people at Lincoln whose kids were doing jut fine socially and emotionally but needed more challenge. And of course, there are people who choose Spectrum or ALO. Talk to as many people as possible and find out the various reasons for their choices and compare their situation to your own. But remember, the way the rules are now, you never "give up" your spot at your neighborhood school. I believe you can always opt back in there in the future.

If your child qualifies, I'd encourage you to go on the upcoming Lincoln tours (schedule at: http://seattlenorthapp.org/), go to the upcoming coffee chats, and get the list of Lincoln parents who have volunteered to chat and contact them.

Consider attending the NW Gifted Child Association's annual conference on 2/9 to meet other parents and learn more about gifted kids' needs. The "Gifted 101" session might be particularly informative: http://www.nwgca.org/connections-conference.html.

Best of luck with your decision making.

Anonymous said...

Regarding K testing: if a child has scores at the 97th percentile for Cogat and the parents appeal, would both cognitive and achievement testing then be required for the appeal?
Preparing

Anonymous said...

Preparing, not sure, but maybe if Winter MAP scores are available before the appeal deadline, you could use those.

Anonymous said...

Preparing, if the Cogat is the issue, you just appeal the Cogat part via private testing.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but the point is, unless a K child got 98 on the Cogat, they didn't get pulled for achievement testing. Fall MAP scores are not used, so they would have no achievement scores for their appeal (unless they could use Winter MAP).

Anonymous said...

They could use winter MAP. And if the school took the fall MAP they could use that. I think this varies much more school to school than it should or says on the website- "will take an achievement test" has meant "we will look at kindergarten Fall MAP scores" at my school in the past. MAP is considered an achievement test. It is NOT true that if they didn't get called in they didn't qualify(both of my kids have qualified in K only with MAP scores in different years, including last year. One year was fall MAP- they consider them fairly interchangeable, and will not pursue further testing if fall MAP qualifies; maybe if they don't quite but the CogAT does, they'll retest with the Woodcock.), though that has been the case at some schools some years. And if they had a 94 on one section on the MAP and didn't get called in, then I don't see how they would have qualified- you have to get a 95 somehow.

NE K mom, I would not move from Bryant to a Spectrum program. It just wouldn't be different enough for what you'd give up, and frankly I think Spectrum is being phased out (I have no secret knowledge; just seems like it is). Lincoln might be, might not be. Go on a tour, or better, talk to people you know who send their kids there. A full quarter of your kid's class probably qualifies- see if any of them are going, why, etc.

APP x 2

Anonymous said...

All this hypothetical pondering only gets one worked up. I know it's hard (I totally empathize as I've been there!) but the best thing I can recommend is to wait for the letter. You'll have the necessary info as to what scores your child got and you will be told of your options and your options for appeal. The letters should be arriving soon. There's no point in worrying about something that might not even be. Easier said than done, I know. Hang in there parents!

Anonymous said...

From the enrollment projections posted on the SSS blog, looks like they're expecting an increase of about 28 kids at Lincoln next year. Predictions are smaller 2nd and 3rd grade cohorts but bigger 4th and 5th grades.

Anonymous said...

Hi Greg, could we please have a new thread to discuss the implications of last night's capacity decision for APP? Thanks,

-Trying to Sort it Out

Greg Linden said...

New thread created!

Anonymous said...

I expected our letter today--did anyone receive one?
Hopefully tomorrow.
--New to this

Anonymous said...

We're waiting as well...letters should have been mailed yesterday.

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Greg Linden said...

A lot of questions about test scores and applying to APP, that's worthy of a thread just on that topic. I created one, "Helping parents applying to APP" and moved a few questions/comments over there.