Monday, January 22, 2018

High School Changes Thread

Per a reader request this thread is for discussion about any of the non-boundary related high school changes for next year.


"Emergent Parent and Educator Science Alignment Changes Meeting

Do you want all children to have access to AP science classes at Seattle Public Schools?
Would you like Ballard HS to be able to continue to offer the Biotech Academy, Ingram's IB program, or the diversity of each high school's science offerings?
Please join us during a community action committee meeting to learn more about planned changes to science learning opportunities at all Seattle public high schools. Our timeline is short for influencing this process. These changes will affect all HS kids starting this fall, as it will radically redistribute science resources!

On Thursday, January 25 at 7 PM at Ballard High School Library, parents and educators will be gathering to discuss concerns related to a planned high school science curriculum alignment to be rolled out starting with the '18-19 freshman class.

Contact Tia Keenan tmkeenan@uwalumni.com with any questions. Hope to see you there!"
  • 24 core related scheduling changes
  • 8 period day
Note: There is a separate open-enrollment thread for general questions deciding about where to go.  




25 comments:

Anonymous said...



I am confused about the new science courses and was trying to find out more. Does anyone know where to find the content of the courses llisted? What would be the HCC sequence? Also, what is the digital content they refer to on the SPS website? Where can we find it?

Thanks,

-nh


Anonymous said...



I found some of the course info on
https://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=18452

I have a hard time evaluating if this is good or bad. Is there more information on the new courses available somewhere else? And where is the digital content? Could HCC students skip the 11th grade courses and pick the AP courses in 9th grade since Alternative courses are mentioned under the 11th grade tab?

-nh



Anonymous said...

Thank you, @nh!

For 11th grade:

Alternative pathways are available for students in 11th grade. [but not before?] These course standards are highly aligned to core science courses and may serve as an alternate to a core science course (i.e. substituting AP Chemistry for Chemistry B). These pathways include but are not limited to the following courses:
AP/IB Biology
AP/IB Chemistry
AP/IB Environmental Science
AP/IB Physics
Additional courses may be added as SPS science continues the transition into NGSS aligned curricula.


No alternative pathways are shown for 10th grade. None.

Additionally, Elective science courses are offered at some high schools in addition to the core science courses in grades 9-11. These elective courses may be taken in grades 11 and 12. These courses do not serve as an alternate to a core science course.

Note to creator: you may want to edit note that "noise cancelling headphones are badass" and it's odd that the CHEM pilot link actually links to Physics content on light/waves/sound.

What materials are schools using? How can they roll out the new alignment and have no updates on materials? Some science adoptions are 10+ years ago.

http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=19142

Biology (1997!!)
Chemistry (1993-1996)
etc.

aghast

Anonymous said...

"Could HCC students skip the 11th grade courses and pick the AP courses in 9th grade since Alternative courses are mentioned under the 11th grade tab?"

That's how I'm interpreting it, nh -- the HCC 9th grader has equivalent options to the 11th grader, which would include skipping Chem B/Physics B and taking the AP or IB courses listed under Alternatives, beginning in 9th grade.

H

Anonymous said...

For comparison, can anyone post some typical science pathway progressions for Garfield students? And what about pre-reqs? According to the course catalog, Garfield requires a year of both Chemistry and Biology prior to AP Biology or AP Environmental Science.

Anonymous said...

But IB courses are not available until 11th, unless a student opts for the IBX pathway.

Anonymous said...

There will be issues with HCC at Ingraham next year, as 3/4 are now doing regular IB which is what the school is recommending. Currently Ingraham offers honors chem & honors physics for 9th and 10th, then students begin IB in 11th. In this new plan the honors science options go away leaving no option for science acceleration for 9th and 10th. I have heard rumor that Ingraham science are currently not very strong either, as compared to alternatives of BHS, Garfield.
Issues

Anonymous said...

@2:53 pm:
Here are potential/typical options for an HCC science pathway at GHS under the current course offerings:
9th: Chemistry Honors or Oceanography
10th: AP Chem or AP Environmental Science or any of the above
11th: AP Bio (teachers said take AP Chem first) or any of the above
12th: Physics or AP Physics or any of the above

Oceanography can be taken any year. I know kids who didn’t get into AP Chem in 10th or AP Bio in 11th, so they ended up choosing APES or Oceanography to fill their science slot for that year. Physics generally follows or coincides with Calculus.

There are some great science teachers at GHS. Of course any teacher may not click with a particular student, but a science-oriented kid should find it a rich experience overall.

- Bulldog Parent

Anonymous said...

@Bulldog parent- Yes that is current pathway. However, it does not tell us how it will change for Freshman Fall 2018 at Garfield. The district is implementing a district wide plan that will affect all schools and HCC.
8th

SusanH said...

Bulldog parent was just responding to the poster (2:53 pm) who asked for what the typical science progression is NOW. They aren't claiming to know how it will change.

Anonymous said...

Science @IHS (by comparison):

IB pathway
9th: Honors Chemistry
10th: "Honors" Physics
11th: IB Science (IB Bio SL, IB Chem SL, IB Physics SL, IB ESS SL)
12th: IB Science (IB Bio HL or second IB SL science)

IBX pathway
9th: Honors Chemistry
10th: IB Science (IB Bio SL, IB Chem SL, IB Physics SL, IB ESS SL)
11th: IB Science (IB Bio HL or second IB SL science)
12th: IB Science (IB Bio HL or third IB SL science)

Anonymous said...

From District FAQ:

How will this alignment impact HCC students?
HCC students have been tested in to a highly capable program and have alternative pathways in subjects besides science. Currently HCC students are on a two-year accelerated pathway and as they have learned required high school standards, can opt for different alternative courses.

What does that mean?

Anonymous said...

So confusing, as Q#19 says the first 2 years "provide the core requirements for all students" and selections can be made for the 3rd year, but then in Q#21 it says the sequences are required of ALL schools.

Does this mean all schools are required to offer the 3 Year sequence, but students are only required to follow the first 2 years, then can select alternatives? But if schools are required to offer the Yr 3 Chem B/Physics B, will they also offer full-year Honors Chemistry and Honors Physics? What school has enough teachers? They are currently limited to 3 preps.

Anonymous said...

What is even more confusing is try emailing the school directly and then emailing Mary Margaret Welch. I got two different answers. The coordinator at Ingraham told me HCC (if following regular IB like 2/3 HCC are currently) would take ChemA/PhyA in 9th and ChemB/PhyB in 10th. However Mary Margaret said they should take Chemistry (full year) 9th and then ChemB/PhyB in 10th at Ingraham, Garfield as well as BHS, RHS etc.

In both scenarios it seems that they would repeat at least some curriculum. Worse at Ingraham than at the other schools. I know at least some HCC took a 7th grade physical science class at HIMS that was aligned to the new next generation standards. They would also be taking a full year of chemistry in 9th in Mary's explanation so they would repeat some of that curriculum again in 10th as well. I am seeking further clarification to find out more information and also why schools (at last Ingraham) are planning a curriculum that conflicts with district explanation. For now I am....
Confused.

Anonymous said...

"Currently HCC students are on a two-year accelerated pathway and as they have learned required high school standards, can opt for different alternative courses."

So that DOES NOT seems to be the case at Ingraham if your child plans on pursuing regular IB.
Confused.

Anonymous said...

The non-IBX science pathway for HCC at IHS is honors chemistry, then honors physics. Filling their schedule with ChemA/PhyA in 9th and ChemB/PhyB in 10th would, on paper, look the same as what they are currently offered (1 yr of chem and 1 yr of physics), but would involve more repeated material from 7th grade. Does this mean they are eliminating honors level options? Parents should really clarify this with IHS before enrolling. Are they intent on having no classes that are HC only?

This whole thing is maddening. For all rising 9th graders. That they didn't consider the entire MS to HS sequence or how it would integrate with current HS offerings is mind boggling.

JLardizabal said...

I attended the first parent engagement meeting at Chief Sealth, led by Mary Margaret Welch. The district's position, as noted above, is that this is not a science *curriculum* change, but simply a change in *sequencing* and *pedagogy* in order to align with new standards and prepare students for the new state science assessment in their junior year.

The new *sequencing* (splitting Chem/Physics A from Chem/Physics B) was done so that the portion of the course that requires higher level math is taken later.

The new *pedagogy* is a "phenomenon-based approach" that relies on an "engaging storyline" to help students develop science and engineering skills. The district has no plans to acquire new textbooks for its high school science classes. In the sample lesson plan presented tonight, we watched a YouTube video of a tanker collapsing in order to learn about differential air pressure.

The high school science sequence is expected to be delivered in "heterogeneous groupings." There will be no honors science classes per se; rather, students may choose to do additional work to get an honors designation for the course.

The new three-year science sequence is to be required at all high schools. At the same time, Ms. Welch indicates there is flexibility and choice (multiple pathways) in the junior year. So, a student may be able to substitute AP/IB courses for the Chem/Physics B requirement. The district plans to standardize prerequisites for AP courses across all high schools.

Ms. Welch insists that the district is not planning to get rid of any AP or IB courses, and promises to support schools with unique science pathways. Ms. Welch maintains that teachers will have to get creative about sharing limited lab space.

In the future, HC students will take Chem/Physics A in 7th grade and Bio A/B in 8th grade. They will be prepared for Chem/Physics B in 9th grade, or one of those alternative course pathways offered to juniors. HOWEVER, if you have a current HC 7th or 8th grader, their middle school courses were not aligned. This is a little fuzzy, but Ms. Welch indicated these current HC middle schoolers would continue, as before, to Chem A/B in 9th grade, then some sequence of AP Chem, AP Bio, and AP Physics.

Ms. Welch greatly regrets the "climate of suspicion" that has arisen about the introduction of these changes.

IB options said...

Ingraham/Staff is saying that incoming 9th graders will take the full year of Chemistry next year and then a full year of Physics as it is currently offered - the ChemB/PhysB curriculum isn't even available yet.

Anonymous said...

IB options- There seems to be a disconnect between who you are referring to as "Ingraham/Staff and Guy Thomas the IB coordinator. There is also disconnect between the coordinator and the district rep Mary Margaret Welch working on this adoption/alignment.

1. Mary also told me yesterday via email that that current HCC 8th would indeed take the ChemB/PhysB class in 10th if it was ready.

2. The IB coordinator told me incoming 8th HC would take ChemA/PhysA (developed) followed by ChemB/PhysB in 10th. I put him directly in touch with the district rep Mary Margaret Welch who is stating that ChemA/PhysA was not appropriate and would essentially be a repeat of 7th grade HCC physical Science.

Regardless after last night's meeting at BHS with Rick Burke, Eden Mack, BHS & RHS teachers and the PTSA legislative liasion Heidi Bennett there seems to be lots of questions and concerns including whether this roll out of new curriculum is following the proper protocol. Question as to whether it an adoption or an alignment, they have different protocol.

LS

Anonymous said...

@ Jan 25th 7:24- "Filling their schedule with ChemA/PhyA in 9th and ChemB/PhyB in 10th would, on paper, look the same as what they are currently offered (1 yr of chem and 1 yr of physics),".

Was also at the meeting. It's not the same at all. Physics and Physical Science are different courses. Last night also the BHS & RHS teachers also explained why the new combined courses in their opinion had issues/were inferior in their opinion.
1. They reduce year long courses to 4 units
2. Need much less math or are not math based
3. Will not adequately prepare students for the alignment of IB and AP courses.
4. They lack data on whether admission rep will accept as equivalent to the year long courses and also satisfy lab requirements. Although some dept people from UW were supportive of these new courses, they don't work in admission dept.
5. Pull resources & teachers from other science courses leaving AP and science electives vulnerable to being cut.

Etc. Lots of issues.

There is no mandate that includes courses must be mish-mashed in this way. BHS has a strong science dept and may get to keep their high quality year long courses which enriching them with the next generation standards instead of replacing the courses for general ed and HCC students who attend BHS and thus would avoid many of these issues.

Parent


Anonymous said...

P.S. The RHS teacher last night also mentioned they just had to rename the courses from ChemA/PhysA and Chem B/PhysB to something else. He said the courses combined were essentially 9th grade Physical Science.

Parent

Anonymous said...

@Jan 25th 4:05 " But if schools are required to offer the Yr 3 Chem B/Physics B, will they also offer full-year Honors Chemistry and Honors Physics? What school has enough teachers? They are currently limited to 3 preps."

That's one of the issues at hand. The pulling of resources to teach these classes will affect the availability of other classes at multiple schools.

IB options said...

LS - agreed there is a lot of conflicting info out there as don't think the roll-out was as well planned out as it should have been. Everyone (staff at all High schools included) is trying to get up to speed as a busy time for new parent questions, think they are in the dark in this with us. When I said "Ingraham" I was referring to HS counselor & my child's science teacher and by staff I meant district staff such as Ms. Welch. As the IB coordinator we have found Mr. Thomas a great resource about IB specific classes or the diploma program but more general IHS questions are sometimes more clearly answered by other staff.

Anonymous said...

"Agreed there is a lot of conflicting info out there as don't think the roll-out was as well planned out as it should have been."

Yes and from a parent perspective, I hope they can get together some solid information to share on what their school will be offering, and the appropriate course sequence for all kids next year for the open house info nights.

LS

IB options said...

In addition to my current 10th grader at IHS, I have an incoming 9th grader so absolutely hope so too!! With the boundary changes, science class changes, potential pathway changes - it's a lot to track for parents...