CSIP (Continuous School Improvement Plans)
The new year's CSIP drafts are out at: http://garfieldhs.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=15987
Supposedly all schools are required to have a section on Advanced Learners although a casual glance at a few shows this to not be the case yet. I view this as an opportunity, however. If there is something concrete you'd really like changed at your site this might be the time to band together and lobby to have it included in the plan for the next year.
Testing
This update was just sent out to hopefully to everyone involved in testing:
Enrollment
If you would like your child to participate in Advanced Learning programs or services in a school other than your attendance-area school, you should enroll the child during Open Enrollment, Feb. 17 to March 1. Even if you have NOT received eligibility results by this time, or if you are appealing, please submit a School Choice Form during this window, anyway. Find guidance on our Advanced Learning Enrollment page.
Ineligible Students and Appeals
If you receive an email stating your student is NOT eligible this year, you may appeal within a limited time. Important: All appeals documents must be received by the Advanced Learning office no later than THREE WEEKS from the date of the email. (We have tightened the appeals window in order to accommodate budget and staffing timelines.) Find guidance on our Advanced Learning Appeals page.
· Families who are eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch may request free appeals testing.
· Please submit a School Choice form during the Open Enrollment window, even if your appeal is in process.
Eligible Students and Enrollment
Highly Capable-eligible students: HC services are guaranteed, either at your attendance-area school or through self-contained classes in your pathway Highly Capable Cohort school. For your child to join the cohort, you should submit a School Choice form during Open Enrollment.
Advanced Learning-eligible students: Your student may receive advanced work at your attendance-area school or through self-contained or cluster-grouped Spectrum classes, available at designated sites on a space-available basis. You may submit a School Choice form during Open Enrollment, but a seat is not guaranteed.
Find guidance on our Advanced Learning Enrollment page.
Note that testing for grades K-8 continues at least through January for students referred by the Oct. 8 deadline. If you have not received a testing appointment by Jan. 6, please email alsupportanalysts@seattleschools.org with the subject line “Winter Testing.”
To learn more and to find answers to specific questions about Advanced Learning in Seattle Public Schools, please see our Advanced Learning pages: http://www.seattleschools.org/students/academics/advanced_learning/
Thank you!
Stephen Martin, Advanced Learning Supervisor"
Upcoming:
- The next HCS Advisory Meeting is this Tuesday 1/5 at JAMS at 6:30 in the library.
- Gifted Ed Day is Jan 29, 2016Starts in the Columbia Room
Legislative Building (Lower Level)
Olympia, WA
9 am to 2 pm
The Coalition is getting ready for Gifted Education Day on January 29, 2016.
The Governor's proposed supplemental budget released on Dec. 17th actually slightly decreases HCP funding even though OSPI recommended an increase of nearly $2.5 million.
We need to increase our support in the Legislature for full funding of HCP. Please plan to join other advocates in Olympia on January 29th. In view of the "no change" budget proposed by the Governor, our hopes lie with Legislators and the Court.
Here is our Handbook for the Day, containing background information on why the Highly Capable Program is entitled to full funding from the state as well as practical information for coming to Olympia.
The basic idea of Gifted Ed Day is to meet in the Columbia Room at 9am for a presentation, get a green scarf to identify you with our group, then split up to visit your district legislators individually or in groups. Be ready to tell your representatives why Gifted Ed is important to your family, and ask them to support HCP budget increases in this legislative session. Bringing kids is great, and well received, as is groups of people advocating together. Legislators respond when they hear from voters in their district.
If you plan to go to Olympia for Gifted Ed Day, NOW is the time to make appointments that day with your legislators. Find your legislators here: http://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/
If you have a question that isn't covered in the Handbook, please contact The Coalition for Gifted Education atwagifted@earthlink.net
Articles
Some recent articles I've read on the subject of gifted education.
- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/26/nyregion/reforms-to-ease-students-stress-divide-a-new-jersey-school-district.html
- http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/01/the-charade-of-special-education-programs/421578/?google_editors_picks=true
- http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/opinion/sunday/is-the-drive-for-success-making-our-children-sick.html
What's on your minds?
148 comments:
Random question: For students who are applying for HCC, but need to do achievement testing (1st grader who is in a private school that doesn't do achievement testing at this age) -- when and how does this get arranged? The website for Advanced Learning says this testing occurs in January if needed, but gives no additional information.
Much thanks!
My previous question above was answered offline. Thanks!
Does anyone know what's happening with the process to select a principal for Robert Eaglestaff middle school? I heard that the principal for JAMS was selected 18 - 24 months in advance of the school opening and that this was very helpful. Are there parents from Hamilton or Lincoln that are tracking this? Also, at one point, the plan was to shift some or all of the HCC students from Hamilton to Eaglestaff when it opens Sept 2017 - anyone know if this is still the case?
Jane
I just added an update on the Testing process to the top line of this thread.
Hi,
We got a test date for Jan 9th, but cannot make it that day.
Had written to Adv learning for reschedule to 23rd, but no response yet.
Can we show up at Cascadia on the 23rd without a test confirmation for that day?
Will my son be allowed to take the test without the confirmed date from adv learning?
Thanks,
Are K-2 students still expected to be notified during this first week of January about further testing?
Thanks,
ST
If you need to do achievement appeals testing (child does not have any MAP scores since at a private school last year) what is the recommended test to take? There are several options listed on the Appeals page but am curious if people have had more success with one over another or if some are quicker/less expensive to administer.
Also, are public school students in K-2 still taking the MAP test this fall/winter? If so, when would those scores be available?
Thanks,
Newcomer
Have you done private IQ testing? If so, the results might tell you which achievement test would be most appropriate. My child has a ridiculously slow processing speed and our psychologist used an achievement test that did not include a fluency subtest.
If your child's CogAT score is high enough, the district will administer achievement tests.
Have any K-2 parents received notice about screening results and a date for second round of testing?
- Waiting
Hi Waiting, I don't think they have gone out yet. Although I've heard some people say as early as tomorrow, but I'm thinking a week or two is more likely.
Hi, my first grade and fourth grade kids finally have test dates!! My daughter took the SBA last spring and scored high, level 4 in both reading and math. However, there is no percentile rank on the results I received from our school. Anyone know where I can find this information? I assume AL would use her SBA scores for determining the achievement portion of eligibility. Thanks.
Ken, thanks for your help!! Also, thanks to Benjamin for posting the Testing Process updates.
- Waiting
Hi Sarah,
You can find the SBA Frequency Distribution Charts on this page.
It looks like the 95th percentile scores for 3rd grade were 2572 for ELA and 2578 for math.
Thanks Lynn!
If you have gone private for high school for your gifted kid, I would love to hear what school you went to and what was good and bad about that school.
We are looking at several private schools in addition to Ballard and Ingraham IBX. Staying public for MS was probably a mistake in retrospect. McClure has been a bit disappointing, despite a lot of talk about differentiation and despite a few very good teachers.
HS Bound
@Jane - No promises but I'm inquiring for you to see what we can find out. Even with JAMS the hiring process only occurred in May a year prior to its opening.
The spring before you mean, right, Ben? Jane, hiring the principal that far beforehand was the result of a somewhat political process trying to give mitigation to a community for delaying the opening of a school. Reactionary, not really like a well thought out best practice. The principal has opened other schools in 5-6 months, and that is a much more typical timeline for opening a middle school. It's not a thing that is really that useful. I would fight for other stuff, if you are thinking about advocacy. Curriculum, especially the humanities, music programs, defining population earlier etc.
-sleeper
One more update:
As observed the AL office has not reached the point of scheduling the K-2 callbacks. They don't have a predicted date for when that part of the process will start yet.
"CogAT scores are not expected until later in January. Students in grades K-2 who score at or above the 94th percentile on the Screening Form will be scheduled to take the full CogAT. Kindergarten students will be taking the MAP this month at school. Older students should have achievement data on file from last spring. Those who do not will be contacted for achievement testing."
So they plan on using MAP results to determine if Kinders are advanced learners? For kids who have never used a computer and which content doesn't overlap at all with the CogAT...
Does "later in January" equal LATE January? It would be nice to know if K-2 callbacks are NOT going to happen on the posted January testing dates. If Cogat results aren't returned until late January, I don't see how they could schedule Saturday sessions for all families until February.
still wondering
I received this email response in mid-december:
We will begin to notify parents regarding further testing (full CogAT) for K-2 students when we have all initial testing results have been returned. These students will be scheduled to test on one of the Saturday dates in January. Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Benjamin, do you think AL will let you know when the scores come in? I'm sure there are many who are trying to figure out if the 1/16 and 1/23 testing dates are going to happen for K-2 callbacks.
still wondering
@Still Wondering - Sadly I don't think so. I'm relying on everyone to post if they get an appointment.
Emailed, they said our daughter's screening score would be available next week. They ignored our question as to when we could expect to take the full test, assuming she is allowed to. Guess I need to keep my Saturdays open/very flexible indefinitely.
Eunhye
Thanks for that info. So they have received the scores and they are processing them to send them out to parents next week...or they won't even have the scores from the scoring service until next week?
Can someone tell me a little bit about what the testing is like for first graders? My son is 3, so it's difficult to imagine standardized tests anytime soon. Just curious how they test such young kids.
Miranda
Hi Miranda, the difference between a 1st grader and a three year old is pretty huge. :-)
Kids who are testing at this age can read, do math, see patterns, apply logic, etc... Honestly don't even think about it for a few years. It will make a lot more sense when your child is actually in 1st grade. Trying to figure out how your child would do at this age would just be counterproductive.
Tinytot,
Your guess is aa good as mine.. Their reply was one sentence, and they have yet to reply to subsequent email. I'll update when I hear back.
Anonymous,
No, I know that. I'm not worried about how my kids will perform. I'm just CURIOUS about what the tests are like. It was just an idle question.
Miranda
For folks emailing AL, there are specific contacts you can use besides Stephen Martin. I think they should have included a K-2 screener update in the communication they sent out on Jan 8. They must be fielding a lot of emails.
http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=14774
Anyone with update about when full test will occur is screener was met?
I think they are planning to give the full test on January 23. Except, if they aren't receiving the scores until next week, and it is a short week, can they really schedule and email out hundreds of appointments by Wednesday?
I've seen one response now indicating the results from the screener would not be available until February and full testing not started until then. IF that's the case generally, the process most likely won't complete until after open enrollment.
There's a section on the website http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=14618 about what to do if you fall into this category.
Basically, apply during open enrollment as if your child has qualified and the district will fix things up once they catch up on testing.
In the meantime, if anyone gets an appointment, please post here. That's probably still the most timely way to find out where things are.
Benjamin, was that an email directly to you? I wish they would update their website. That info seems to conflict with the earlier email to Eunhye.
I had sent an email a couple weeks ago asking about timing of getting K-2 screening results, got the following response today:
"The screening form results will be available sometime in February. We will let you know if she needs to take the full battery depending on her screening form score."
My daughter was tested mid-November.
I emailed today and got a response right away saying that they have already started receiving the screener scores.
H
Weird - we just got called and were told our son was going to get a half hour test in school and then if he passed would be scheduled for the remaining parts of the CogAt. But this was after taking the first CogAt screener in November.
That sounds like they might have lost his screener, or it was compromised somehow? Did they offer an explanation?
3:41, possible the half hour test could be the MAP? I'd be surprised, as we have been told that if the screener was met at 94%, students would take the full test. Regardless of MAP scores. If they are talking about having kids meet the necessary MAP scores prior to allowing anyone to take the full test, I see a lot of problems. Transparency issues (again) and appeals process. If they are not allowed to take full test if MAP is not met, than appeals testing would need to include both achievement and intelligence. The two eligibility criteria should not be contingent on each other.
-Too tired
(to make sense?)
They should be contacting K families about the callbacks today and tomorrow, yes? Can anyone confirm?
In the past we have had good luck contacting rmmcphaden@seattleschools.org with questions about AL.
Mirnada/Miranda - I was like you when my son started reading at age 2. I randomised all sorts of people with questions trying desperately to navigate the exciting but anxiety producing realisation my kid was going to need more than just the school down the street. I agree with the response that a lot changes between 3 and 5 and you will likely need to wait a couple years to know what's the right choice for how your son likes to learn.
Totally different subject, but did anyone attend the PTA at Thurgood Marshall last week? The forum about equity exposed a lot of frustration and heat about the racial make-up of the HCC vs. the gen-ed program. Curious what the HCC parents perspectives are on appeals and the push to deny retesting?
Our daughter tested at 4 1/2, which is the age most psychologists believe an accurate score can be given. We were testing for early entrance to Kindergarten, so she took the cogat, through al, and then an actual iq test with a private psychologist. The latter was a very pleasant experience and our daughter still asks to go back and 'play games.' We knew very early that our daughter was (insert least elitist term for 'advanced' and 'different' =P) and wish we would have had an evaluation with psychologist even sooner than we did. Yes, the score may not be accurate at an earlier age than 4 1/2, but a good pyscologist will able to tell you much more than a number. We were given invaluable information on her learning style, strengths and relative weaknesses, but most importantly we were able to get some sort of outside second opinion that yes, our daughter is outside the norm, and yes, there are things we should be doing differently for her. And just to note, we could not afford the price of a private psychologist. However, many of the more reputable ones will offer a small amount of no cost evaluations and testing. The testing portion of SCDS website was helpful for us.
S.T.
OMG this again? Appeals are necessary because the district's testing process sucks. There are kids who need HCC who are distractible or anxious or just five years old who are not going to perform well on a two hour group test administered by a stranger at 8 am halfway across the city.
As for Thurgood Marshall, district administration should answer for any problems there. Placing the program in that school was either a really stupid idea or intended to make HCC families uncomfortable. I don't know why people focus on HCC when the real issue is the racial make-up of students who graduate vs. kids who drop out, students who bring lunch from home vs. those who qualify for free lunch, or students who have books in their homes vs those who do not.
As a parent with limited exposure to kids other than myself, what are some specific indicators that a 3 or 4 year old may be gifted? Obviously early reading is one sign but by no means the only one. I've seen generic lists of characteristics but many of them seem like they'd apply to most children. Curious about what you saw in your kid that later matched up with them being 'gifted.' My 3 year old daughter seems very bright, but then maybe I am only biased.
-Wondering
Regarding gift 3/4 year olds... I don't think there's any reason to diagnose at that age. Just continue to challenge them. Feed them what they need. Your child may need more reading challenges than the average kid, but maybe lesser hand-eye coordination challenges.
The only reason that HCC really even exists at schools is that they can't reasonably do individualized plans for each student, so they create coarse grained buckets in an attempt to maximize the coverage they do get.
But at age 3/4, when the child is mostly at home (I'm assuming), just keep challenging and having fun with your child. The notion of "giftedness" is only relevant when you have to find the right setting for them in an environment where they can't really tailor education to individuals.
Most parents don't need to have a child tested at three or four. There are some who are far enough to the right on the bell curve that information (and relevant advice) is needed. Three or four is also not too early to be thinking about school choice. If your neighborhood school isn't likely to meet your child's needs, why send them there?
Placing the program in that school was either a really stupid idea or intended to make HCC families uncomfortable.
APP/HCC at Garfield? Washington? HIMS (low performing school back in the day), TM, and JAMS? The placement has always been intentional. The proposed "north" location for the elementary program during the 1st split was Hawthorne. They eventually left it at Lowell, until it burst at the seams and was placed "temporarily" for 5 years and counting at Lincoln.
http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2008/11/open-thread-for-tt-minorhawthornethurgo.html
Hamilton demographics (from OSPI)
2007-08
Hispanic / Latino of any race(s) 13.8%
American Indian / Alaskan Native 1.2%
Asian 36.2%
Black / African American 21.2%
White 27.6%
Free or Reduced-Price Meals 53.8%
2014-15
Hispanic / Latino of any race(s) 6.1%
American Indian / Alaskan Native 0.3%
Asian 9.1%
Black / African American 2.1%
White 75.0%
Two or More Races 7.4%
Free or Reduced-Price Meals 7.9%
Anecdotally, my children were not early readers, but once they learned to read independently (both in K) they went from BOB books to upper level chapter books in the course of a year. It didn't seem unusual to me at the time, but volunteering in their K-1 classrooms did give some additional perspective. We were new to the district and it took some time to get clued in about testing and the gifted program options.
another perspective
From SPS: How did your school perform? 2014-15 School Reports are linked in What's New.
Was just told by al that testing will occur on 1/30 or 2/6 if my k daughter passed screener. She couldn't tell me over the phone, but said they are trying to email results this week.
Eunhye
Thank you, Eunhye! You were able to get more information than I was! I hope they are able to email results this week (i.e., today or tomorrow).
Just received an email that my 1st grader passed the screener and will be given the full CogAT exam on 1/30.
Same. We got one for our first grader too. It read like a Spectrum-eligibility letter until I saw the testing appointment. They say they will not reschedule. I hope they'll allow for illness.
H.
For those that have received screener results -- does it tell you the score or just that you are (or aren't) going to take the full CogAt? Thanks in advance.
Ken,
It doesn't include the score, and, as mentioned above, it initially seems like your child qualifies for Spectrum rather than HCC. However, it was sent to those who met HCC criteria for the screener.
- KMOM
Hmmm, now I get to obsessively check email. I wonder if it goes out in batches?
When my daughter tested for HCC (she's in middle school now) this process seemed much less stressful.
SE mom
Also, curious when you tested, and if that makes a difference in receiving results? My son tested on 12/5
SE mom
Ken, as mentioned above it doesn't say the score, but I would like to have it. Per the website, the letter was contingent on 94 or above. I don't know how statistically possible it will be to qualify if the screener score was a 94 versus a 99.
H.
We tested on 11/14.
H.
Yes, if you've received an email, what day did your kids test? My daughter tested on 12/12 and I haven't received anything.
My son was tested on 1/9.
Thanks KMOM. I am also curious for those kids that didn't get 94 or above on the screener -- do those scores get reported. In some ways, that is more useful. I think parents would be interested in knowing if their child scored 40% or 93%.
Have any kindergarten families heard back?
Appreciate the replies to my post. Sounds like this PTA meeting was venting already well tread ground and was just my first exposure to it.
Wondering - you can go to hoagies gifted and see some general characteristics for young children. It's not just early reading. Love of puzzles, numbers, really good memory, deep interest in something (for my son's best friend it's paper airplanes, another friend of his knows every kind of bug).
What testing is like - Early testing with a child psychologist might be helpful if your child is up for it. Your child "plays" games and puzzles for a couple 40 minute sessions, then you get a lot of answers and resources from an expert. The CoGat testing through SPS is another beast. My son tested on a Saturday with 5 other non-SPS kindergarteners. One kid was totally psyched out to leave his mother and cried and clung to her until they took him away for the test. My son reported that he cried through the whole two and a half hour test, "I want my mommy." This was while the kids were being tested on math, problem solving and oral story comprehension, so not a lot of fun for anyone.
The Advanced Learning Office has received the results of your child’s Cognitive Abilities Screening Form. Your child’s composite score on the screening form meets the cognitive eligibility criteria for Advanced Learner (Spectrum) without need for further cognitive testing. If you would like to pursue further cognitive evaluation for possible Highly Capable eligibility, we have scheduled your child to take the full CogAT Form 7 test at 2:30pm on January 30th at Cascadia Elementary School (old Lincoln High School). The full CogAT will take about 2.5 hours to complete.
Oh, hmm. Has anyone who tested at Thurgood Marshall heard back? I was specifically told that they would contact everyone who took the screener, regardless of results..
I posted the above. My daughter tested at Thurgood Marshall on 10/24.
Thank you!
AL says they will not give out screening scores, whether they meet the threshold or not, until the final eligibility letters.
My kindergartener was tested on Jan. 9th, and we received the e-mail with the appt. info for January 30th.
Hi, did anyone get results today? We still haven't got any results, and I was expecting to see some after people started receiving them yesterday.
Sorry, to clarify my post I just did... did anyone get _CogAt screener_ results?
I haven't received anything yet. My son is in second grade.
SE mom
would you have received anything if your child didn't qualify?
-NE mom
This week's Friday Memo includes information on HCC enrollment.
I received an email today (friday) at 4:45 pm that my son needs Achievement tests scores to qualify for HCC. It asks for Math and Reading scores (Spring 2015 or more recent), and if not he will be scheduled for Achievement testing on 1/30. My son is a Kindergartner so does not have achievement scores and will need to test on 1/30, I assume. What exam does SPS use for achievement test of grade schoolers (K specifically)?
Also, we still have not heard about scheduling the full cognitive testing for him, so it was odd to get the achievement test email first. The email does say "Your student has been referred for further evaluation", so it sounds like he passed the screener. Other commenters say that full cognitive testing is also on 1/30. Will they make my 5-year old take 2 sets of exams on the same day??
They may schedule your full CogAt the first week of February. Who knows. The communication has been horrible. For all we know, they'll schedule them at the same time!
Is advanced learning testing schedules this poorly communicated every year?
The Achievement testing is typically MAP, but I'm not sure what they'll do in the case of the February testing.
Anyone else notice that the eligibility criteria for Spectrum seem to have recently changed since what was posted in October when applications were accepted?
It now looks like Spectrum 1-5 requires the full CogAT as well as verbal and quant at 87%+. Seems like in October and in communication from the Advanced Learning Office that the screener score at 87%+ and verbal OR quant at 87%+ was sufficient for Spectrum. Anyone have insight into the changes as the eligibility chart was clearly edited on the Advanced Learning Page, but there was no explicit discussion of the change?
http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=1560872
The 2015 revised policy has different Spectrum requirements for K-2, 3-7, and then elementary self-contained. According to the policy, grade 1-5 self-contained elementary Spectrum requires 87% in math and reading achievement. In middle school it's and/or, with math placement separate. The table separates into different grade bands than the policy, and doesn't say anything about self-contained programs. Do self-contained Spectrum programs still exist in elementary? Somewhat confusing, as the table seems to refer to self-contained Spectrum 1-5. Also, the policy states CogAT screener for K-2 eligibility, but the table shows CogAT screener for K only.
http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/Revised%202190SP%20Draft%20Clean.pdf
The Advanced Learning office jumped the gun when they posted their proposed changes to Superintendent's Procedure 2190 to the website as if they had been approved. The changes will be discussed by the Curriculum and Instruction Committee in February and Advanced Learning will accept comments from the public.
At this point, the version of SP 2190 that was signed in June or July of last year is in place. This means that:
K students still need 90th percentile or higher on two sections of the full CogAT (but no achievement testing is required)
Students who opt out of the SBAC can still qualify for advanced learning or highly capable services
Students need 98th percentile cognitive test scores to be identified in high school (but no essay)
Anyone can appeal their student's eligibility result
The district will provide free individual testing to some low income students
Oh - and yes Lafayette has self-contained elementary Spectrum and Fairmount Park has self-contained blended HCC/Spectrum classes.
Superintendent Procedures do not need Board approval.
From the minutes of the November meeting of the West Seattle HCC Pathway Focus group:
Question: How can these documents be amended?
• Response: Procedural changes have to be made through the C & I Policy Committee (made up of 3 members of School Board). First, there would have to be strong advocacy and sentiment pushing the change. Once the Committee agrees there is need for a change, suggested changes are written and an announcement for public feedback is made. Any changes would need to be vetted through this process (could be multiple times- change, feedback, change, feedback, etc.) until Committee agrees to forward the final changed versionto the Superintendent.
From a December Friday Memo to the board:
Updates to Advanced Learning Procedures to be Postponed
Proposed updates to the Superintendent Procedures 2190, Highly Capable Services and Advanced Learning Programs, had been scheduled for presentation at the December 14 Curriculum & Instruction Policy Committee meeting. However, this action will be postponed to allow new School Board members time to transition. We anticipate reintroducing the update in February 2016
Thanks for chiming in re: the 1/24 9:27 am Spectrum eligibility questions. The current Advanced Learning Webpage is confusing as they clearly changed the eligibility criteria chart since October, and the new chart is inconsistent with the information in their FAQs on the website. For example, the chart says Spectrum requirements for grades 1-5 involve cognitive abilities at 87%+ and verbal/quant both at 87%+ but the FAQ says the following:
"Eligibility Criteria
87th+ percentile in cognitive abilities
87th+ percentile on reading or math achievement tests
Parent and Teacher Rating Scale"
I plan to contact Advanced Learning for some clarity, as it's not obvious how one would interpret scores and make an informed decision about appeals if the posted criteria conflict with each other.
As a parent of a Spectrum eligible student currently attending an ALO school, I'm wondering how much meaning there really is in being labeled an Advanced Learner? Are there good NW Seattle elementary Spectrum programs out there, one that we would have a chance of getting into during open enrollment? My1st grader is testing next week for HCC. How good is Cascadia really? How did other families make the decision to move their student? My child is relatively happy in their home school but I do see definite lapses in being appropriately challenged to their abilities. I supplement at home. My child is in a classroom this year with several kids needing more of the teacher's attention so my child does not get any/much differentiation except walk-to-math. Any advice greatly appreciated. Thank you.
NB Parent
Are students who don't have any achievement scores not allowed to take the full Cogat (even if they passed the screener) until they take and pass the achievement tests? I had thought they weren't contingent on each other.
The FAQ also says this:
For Advanced Learner eligibility, K-2 students who score at or above the 90th percentile on the screener will have met the cognitive threshold for Advanced Learner/Spectrum, and will not need achievement scores.
98th (or above) percentile for both cognitive abilities and achievement tests are required in kindergarten for HC eligibility.
Confused
Quick question for those in the know. We had our son privately tested, with the WISC test. His full scale and GAI are different. One is 96, the other 99. Any idea what they need to be to appeal for APP?
SE mom
@ SE Mom,
According to what's on the AL webpage here, HCC eligibility for appeals says it can be either full scale or GAI that meets 98/99th percentile.
Thank you! I should have checked there first...
SE mom
I have searched this site to see if I can find an answer to this question already, but I couldn't. Has anyone had luck with an appeal where the CoGat score was in range for APP but the MAP scores were just below the 95th percentile threshold? I have seen the question asked the other way, where the student's MAP scores were 99th percentile, but the CoGat and/or private testing were below the 98/99 threshold. According to the FAQ on the advanced learning site, I read there is flexibility, but I am curious if this happens in practice?
Are the 95th percentile math and reading requirements hard lines, or is there flexibility for students who score a point or two below that?
As stated in the procedures, the Multidisciplinary Selection Committee considers all factors in determining eligibility. SPS's established eligibility thresholds are neither absolute qualifiers nor disqualifiers; teacher input is also an important consideration.
For example: A student may have achievement scores that do not quite meet the requirement. Although the scores are slightly lower than the required percentile, cognitive scores, achievement history, and the Teacher Rating Scale are taken into consideration to inform a final decision as to that student’s eligibility. Also, in order to provide equitable opportunities for all students, the MSC considers factors such as cultural diversity, socioeconomic status, linguistic background, and identified disability in its deliberations.
-More curious than ever.
Anyone know if advanced learning already notified all K-2 students who passed the screener, or are they still sending out more notices this week? We have not received any information and are just wondering if we still need to hold the next two Saturdays, or if I should assume no news means that our child didn't pass the screener. Thanks!
-waiting
I think a child who would bring racial, economic or linguistic diversity to the program could get in with lower than 95th percentile achievement scores. I think it's highly unlikely that a middle class white child would.
I have read on this blog of cases where twins qualified for APP when one had slightly low achievement scores but qualifying cognitive scores.
I heard second hand that everyone who passed the screener early in the testing process has been contacted. I suggest you call advanced learning and ask them if you should expect to test again if you haven't heard from them.
Two questions:
What about kids who didn't take the screener until last Saturday (the 23rd)?
Does anyone know the actual requirements for Spectrum for current 2nd graders?
87th percentile in two areas on the cogat and 87th percentile in reading and math.
http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/Procedures/Series%202000/2190SP.pdf
Thanks, that's what the eligibility chart says...but...
1. Does that mean the FAQ is wrong? (No achievement needed for K-2)
2. "two areas on the cogat" seems wrong, when scoring 87 on the screener does not allow you to take the full cogat. The screener is a single score.
It's pretty bad to have this level of misinformation on the program website.
Thanks for the response to my question regarding below 95% on MAP. Frustrating! The difference between spring MAP scores at the end of 1st grade to now can be huge. I guess I'll have to dig deeper into the coffers to find a private tester to administer achievement tests that in all likelihood mirror what this Spring's MAP scores will bear out, albeit too late for APP.
There is a list of providers linked on the appeals page and they are not all booked. (Start at the bottom of the list.)
Yesterday, I sent Advanced Learning a message that included screen shots of all the conflicting information mentioned above with respect to Spectrum eligibility criteria, and asked them to clarify. I will report back if I learn anything helpful.
I just found another error - did you send them a picture of the FAQ that says 98th (or above) percentile for both cognitive abilities and achievement tests are required in kindergarten for HC eligibility?
Good grief, 1/26/16 4:03, the scope of errors across their webpages is astounding. I did not send that error along.
I posted that error at January 25, 2016 at 1:38 PM
Confused
Can someone tell me if it's better to use a private tester or if free testing through public schools is fine?
Thanks,
Miranda
Hi Mirnada, I think you don't have a choice for applying to advance learning. You have to use the district testing. For appeals, then I think you can use private testing.
See http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=14632 ("Private assessments are not accepted as the basis of initial eligibility; all students MUST participate in the district testing cycle.")
NB Parent - My child is at TM so I can't speak to Cascadia, but we made the decision to switch to HCC because of his frustration and boredom with sitting through classes where kids were learning reading and math at the level he was at three years ago. It was leading to tears and reluctance to go to school. He was actually "happier" with his friends and teacher at his old school, but we see he is getting more value out of school in the HCC.
Miranda - It's not either or, the tests are dictated by where you want to send your child to school. If you are testing for the SPS advance learning program your child must do the CoGaT administered by SPS and potentially an additional achievement test to qualify. You don't get a more than a score to explain the results. If you are testing just to assess your child or to apply to select Seattle private schools you must do private testing, (some schools like Country Day only take evaluations from certain testers).
I just received this email from the AL office:
"Yes, those families have been notified. Please check your mail during the next two weeks for a letter with score information."
"those families" referring to Kindergarten students who have passed the CogAT screener and have been called back for the full CogAT.
Between my friend and I we know 14 Kinders who took the screener and not a single one of them qualified for even Spectrum.
-Something seems off
Okay, I got some clarity to my previous comment. The students being called back scored above 94 on the screener. So those who scored between 87-93 could still be Spectrum qualified.
-Something still seems off
Something seems off, your students still may have qualified for Spectrum. The callback means passing the screener with a 94. Anything between 87 and 93 would mean Spectrum qualification.
I am not sure why they didn't make a lower cutoff on the screener, like 80, to give kids a chance to qualify for Spectrum on the full test (as they did with APP, using 94 on the screener instead of 98).
Hope that helps
We cross-posted! Sorry,
HTH
Have any private school students gotten a call back for the Cogat?
I agree that the kinders you know might have qualified for Spectrum but want to point out that in Kindergarten, Spectrum requires 90th percentile CogAT.
Also - agree that to find most of the kids who would receive 90th percentile scores on the full CogAT would require dropping the screener score to 70th percentile, then administering the full test.
Is the RIT ceiling on the MAP test (K-2 primary version) 220 for reading and 240 for math?
If your child scores close to the ceiling, will the school automatically switch to the next level up (3-5 ?)or do you have to request it?
Does the school confirm MAP results and instructional level needs with some type of formative assessment such as an EOC?
Why does the district use MAP instead of solely formative assessments if MAP isn't directly tied to the curriculum?
This is all new to me, so I appreciate any input.
- KMOM
Agree with Lynn. The publisher advises to use a cut score three times of that required for program entry. So for the top 2%, the top 6%. For the top 10%, the top 30%.
KMOM, in my experience, the answer to all of your questions would be no. Id say to ask your teacher or principal, but you are unlikely to get any helpful answers about the MAP test.
Can someone tell me what the advantage to the Spectrum designation is? Our child's elementary has an integrated Spectrum program. They do offer Walk-to-Math, but it is open to any child based on MAP scores and not all Spectrum students walk-to-math.
From what I can see outside of that my child is not getting any distinct services or more challenging work due to Spectrum status. So what is the point?
He has the Math and Cogat scores to be HCC qualified, but is a few points shy for reading. So it seems he is destined for instruction aimed at the middle 50% instead of the 98% he would get in HCC. Seems like a zero-sum game.
-Spectrum Skeptic
@Spectrum Skeptic - Spectrum services vary building to building so if you want an answer here you probably need to at least tell us which school you're in. The more detailed answer, is that you should also ask your teacher/principal this same question and evaluate what they are offering. I'll add Walk-to-math actually is a big deal and not available everywhere (I wish we had it in our reference school).
School is Hazel Wolf K-8. We heard great things but have been fairly disappointed by academic program so far. Child is in 1st grade.
-Spectrum Skeptic
There is a new bulletin up on the AL website:
Full CogAT Testing for K-2 Students
For students in grades K-2, a score of 87 or above on the Cognitive Abilities Screening Form satisfies the cognitive requirement for Advanced Learner/Spectrum eligibility. However, only students who scored 94 or above are invited to take to take the full CogAT battery if they wish to be considered for Highly Capable services.
Eligibility decisions will be made when cognitive and achievement data have been assembled for review, before the end of February. These decisions will be communicated as they are made. No scores are available until decision letters are sent.
Achievement Scores
Achievement scores are needed for a student to be considered for Advanced Learning eligibility.
For those students needing achievement testing and do not have scores from district administered achievement tests: (Thank you to those parents who have already sent in achievement test scores)
If you have scores you have not yet sent, please send them to advlearn@seattleschools.org right away. (Achievement scores must be nationally normed)
We will schedule achievement testing for those students who need it.
Since CogAT testing is already scheduled on Saturday Jan. 30, there is no further capacity for achievement testing on that date.
There will not be any achievement testing on Saturday, Jan. 30.
We will send new achievement testing dates and times early next week.
We appreciate your patience as we work to ensure that all students are given equitable access to Advanced Learning in SPS. Please do not write or call this week, to ensure that all of our time is used efficiently to expedite this process.
Hi Spectrum Skeptic, I'm curious to hear more about Hazel Wolf. We are considering the program for our child, due to the STEM nature of the school. Have you found the STEM bent to it to be good and interesting for kids with an interest in science?
Someone asked about private school kids getting called back in a post yesterday. My child did receive notice to take achievement testing (another parent earlier in this thread also did). No mention of the full CogAt though. So either we scored enough for Spectrum, but too low for HCC. Or we scored above 94 on the screener, but won't get offered the full CogAt until after we have passed the achievement test threshold for HCC. Not sure which though...
Ken, did you try emailing one of the real people at AL and asking if your child's screener met the HCC cutoff?
Anonymous, I didn't contact any of the real people at AL. We think Spectrum at Hazel Wolf may be a better fit for our child, so we're less concerned about the cutoff between HCC and Spectrum.
Have you tried calling them to see how your child did on the screener?
Ken, please post about any gems you find for science kids(school or extracurricular). We recently attended an Islandwood workshop that was great, but most of their school year work for SPS is for 4th grade+. My child isn't old enough yet, but it may be of interest to you.
https://islandwood.org/educational-programming/homewaters-program
- KMOM
I'm a HWk8 mom with a daughter in 5th grade who has been HCC eligible since first grade. My experience is that walk-to-math is the strongest component of the Spectrum Program at HW. There is less strength in the Reading/LA part of the curriculum and that is much more teacher-specific - because it's readers workshop, the strength of it is often also dependent upon having a cohort of advanced learning eligible kids who can provide a peer group. That really can vary grade-to-grade. As for writing, it is writer's workshop, too, but the school typically does science writing twice/week, so I think they do that much better than many schools.
As the principal and teachers get to know the kids, they will be able to create better clusters - and clusters are intentionally created for these kids. You're right, though, that the clusters aren't based solely on AL testing results. A number of parents have opted out of AL testing but their kids would be eligible for Spectrum or HCC - so those capable children are also added into the clustering.
Spectrum Skeptical - I would suggest that you speak with your child's current teacher and with Ms. Nelson at the beginning of June as they are working on classroom assignments for next year. The principal does know which teachers are better at meeting the needs of the AL kids and does strive to put them together. Of six years, we've had 4 excellent year and 2 years where I felt my AL wasn't as supported as I would have liked in reading/LA. Math has been great all 6 years.
In answer to the inquiry about E-STEM activities, I've been very happy. Engineering in 4th and 5th grades, MESA and Girls Science programs in middle school, a focus on the environment in field trips, a program in first grade where all 3 classes have a gardening curriculum and will harvest in May, a science career day, math and engineering night, etc. Last weekend there was a low-tide nighttime family outing that was attended by around 45 people (9:30pm on a Friday night!) There are also overnight, environmentally focused field trips (4th grade has 1 night overnight to Camp Long, 5th and 8th go to NatureBridge for 2/3 night trips.) When we move to the new building next year, the students will have energy monitors to track energy use, solar panels, a living wall (all of these are being paid for by parent contributions, not the school district.)
~HW Mom
I heard back and was informed that my 1st grader qualifies for Advanced Learner/Spectrum and was invited back to take the full CogAT to see if he is eligible for HCC.
A couple newbie questions:
-if my son gets into the program, does the school have a bus service or are parents responsible for pickup and dropoff? How do parents with multiple kids in different schools handle this?
-how do I know what my pathway HCC school is?
-John
John, your child will get yellow bus service to a pathway HCC school.
Your pathway school can be found here:
http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Programs%20and%20Services/Linked%20Schools%202015-16_Elementary.pdf
Good luck!
Thanks so much. That's very helpful information. Does the bus service also apply to the Spectrum/Advanced Learning schools?
--John
Ken,
We started at HWk8, and moved to Cascadia. Apparently walk to math used to be 2 years ahead, but now it is just one, which mattered for our child. If you can be active in the pta and involved, you can be fairly assured of good teacher assignments, but there is a lot of favoritism. I wouldn't count on it otherwise. The staff at Cascadia is much more consistent, and stronger from what I have seen. I did not find there to be much more science than Cascadia, but perhaps there is in the older grades. The new building is going to be amazing, however, and the community is very energized about the school. I prefer the relief and ease of knowing my child has appropriate academics, but it is a personal choice. Many AL families stay very happily.
Best of luck,
Momof2
Momof2 and HWMom, thank you so much for the additional insight into HWK8. Much appreciated!
Do any people here have kids in the spectrum program at Lawton? Are you happy there?
I saw this thread from several years ago where there is a lot of frustration with Lawton. http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-is-spectrum-and-what-is-not.html?m=1
Has that changed?
--John
Are there any opinions about the HCC program at Thurgood Marshall and how it compares to Cascadia?
You won't have a choice between the two - both buildings are over capacity. I would suspect Cascadia is preferable because it has a singular focus. Stephan Blanford was at a TM PTA meeting recently to scold parents about the "inequality" of the HCC. I don't think that happens at Cascadia.
In 2014/15, OSPI reported 2 Black/AA students at Cascadia out of 686 total students, grades 1-5. There were 506 white students.
For the same year, Thurgood Marshall had 97 Black/AA students out of 511 total students K-5. There were 228 white students.
Prior to the APP split in 2009, OSPI reported Thurgood Marshall enrolled 151 Black/AA students out 440 total students for the 2008/09 school year. There were 18 white students enrolled that year. The following year, 2009/10, post split, the white population rose to 168 students, while the Black/AA population remained steady at 164.
I imagine there are very different conversations happening at Thurgood Marshall than at Cascadia. With only 2 black students this year and a self-contained building, there is no evidence of inequality or any kind of divide. But if you are in a building where the majority of the white kids are in the gifted program and the majority of the black kids are in general ed, you can imagine it might be a conversation, at least. "Scolding parents about inequality" is a very derogatory phrase to use for what is certainly an important issue not just in APP, but seems to be gaining traction in our national election cycle.
My (private school) Kinder took the Cogat screener in the Fall and then received an achievement testing date for next week. Does anyone know what I should be thinking about the full Cogat?
South Dad
South Dad, I would just email the person who emailed you, and ask if your child's screener met the threshold for the full Cogat or not.
Good luck!
I heard back from Advanced Learning with respect to the inconsistencies, mainly concerning Spectrum Criteria, on their web pages:
"Thank you very much for your email. We have made the necessary changes to the website pages in order to improve the consistency of the provided information, and to reflect current SP 2190 (Superintendent Procedures)."
They then provided the criteria in a couple tables, that I don't think can be pasted in this text box. But, the criteria are cleaned up on the web page and reflect the following:
http://www.seattleschools.org/students/academics/advanced_learning/eligibility_criteria/
I did notify them that the still have a Spectrum error, as the table indicates that first-second graders need 87%+ on two areas of the full CogAt, when in reality, it is this level of performance on the screener.
No - if you look at page four of SP 2190 you'll see that students in K-2nd grade do need to take the full CogAT to qualify for Spectrum.
http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/Procedures/Series%202000/2190SP.pdf
Regarding Cogat and Spectrum -- I think what confuses the issue is that if you get a 94% on the screener then you don't need to take the full CogAt for Spectrum.
What isn't clear is if you score, for example, an 85% on the screener then will you get the full CogAt (in an attempt to score over 87% for the full CogAt)?
Ken,
According to the Superintendent Procedure, the only way to qualify for Spectrum in any grade using the CogAT is to take the entire test. The Advanced Learning office had wanted to change this for K-2 but this would not comply with the current rules.
Under the (now scrapped) plan for this year, a student with an 85% on the screener would not qualify for Spectrum and would not be allowed to take the full CogAT. A student in this position with qualifying math and reading achievement scores, would have to arrange for private IQ testing. This is unfortunate because many students who don't qualify with the screener would qualify with the full CogAT.
Hi Lynn, I can't understand if you're saying that the Advanced Learning office changed the rules, but aren't in compliance, or if the rules didn't change? I do know that parents of children who scored 94%+ on the screener were told this year they didn't need to take the full CogAt for Spectrum. They only needed to take it if they wanted to do HCC.
I do agree that the second paragraph is unfortunate, since it makes it statistically less likely that a child at the 87%ile would test into Spectrum. That seems like a pretty huge mistake by whoever owns testing for Spectrum.
Lynn and Ken, This text was just posted in last week's update to the AL website.
For students in grades K-2, a score of 87 or above on the Cognitive Abilities Screening Form satisfies the cognitive requirement for Advanced Learner/Spectrum eligibility. However, only students who scored 94 or above are invited to take to take the full CogAT battery if they wish to be considered for Highly Capable services.
And as Ken mentions, students who got 94+ on the screener were explicitly notified via email that they had already met the requirements for Spectrum.
First grade parent.
Lynn, why is it that many more would test in with the full Cogat? Is it just statistically likely, or does the screener comprise the more difficult sections of the test (which would make sense with the recommendation for a lower cut score). Giving the hardest part and taking a larger percentage seems to make more sense than giving the easiest part and taking a narrow percentage. That seems like it would be a more random slice.
AP
AP/Lynn----Measures become more reliable/trustworthy when there are more items (in this case CogAt subscales) being assessed. The cut-off is as likely to produce false positives (identifying a kid as Spectrum qualified who would not have met eligibility requirements on the full test) and false negatives (failing to identify a kid who scored just below threshold who would score above threshold on the full test).
The screener is all analogies. At least in the verbal section, and probably the quantitative section as well, that is a much more challenging task than simply asking "which one of these things can fly" or whatever. Analogies are often misunderstood.
I received more helpful clarification from Advanced Learning today.....email follows:
"Yes. Students in 1st and 2nd grade who receive a score of 87%+ on the CogAT Screening form will be considered for Advanced Learner eligibility. Achievement scores are also needed for determining eligibility. Advanced learning attempted to change procedure so that kindergarten students would be evaluated with the same criteria, but that decision has not been approved at this time. Kindergarteners with 90%+ will be considered for Advanced Learner eligibility and no achievement scores are necessary. The clarification will be added to the eligibility page. Thank you.
All K-2 CogAt call backs for students who tested during the originally scheduled dates and scored 94+ are now complete and families have been notified . We are still scheduling students who missed the original testing dates.
Please let me know if you have any more questions and we sincerely appreciate your input toward making the process clearer for SPS families."
Does that include private school students? We tested on a regular date but only have been called for achievement tests.
@ 4:42pm
We're in the same boat. Called for achievement but not for full Cogat.
South Dad
Ken,
The Advanced Learning office changed the rules, then realized they are required to present proposed changes to the school board's Curriculum and Instruction Committee and provide an opportunity for public input before making changes. They've rolled back some (but not all) of those changes on the eligibility criteria chart.
The actual rules in place are those published in SP 2190. According to the procedure, scores from the complete CogAT (not the screener) can be used to qualify for Spectrum. If they are sending Spectrum qualification letters to students who haven't taken the entire CogAT, they're not following the rules.
I agree that the CogAT is too long for a test given to kids in K-2 - so can see their point. However, staff should be required to follow the procedures. They can't be allowed to make them up as they go along. The criteria for highly capable identification of high school students is a good example of where that leads us.
The procedure says high school identification requires 98th percentile CogAT scores and 95th percentile math and reading scores plus a review of current achievements, current overall GPA and coursework and grades in IB and/or AP courses.
The eligibility chart says high school identification requires 95th percentile reading and math scores and portfolio assessment. Cognitive scores are not required but will be considered if submitted.
The referral form for high school students says eligibility requires 98th percentile reading, math and writing scores on the SAT or PSAT, cumulative GPA of 3.8 and significantly above average grades in AP/IB courses. The referral form also indicates that students must submit an essay in which you reflect on yourself through the Highly Capable lens. The essay examines how and why you are an example of a Highly Capable student.
I can't begin to understand how anyone thinks that is not intrusive and creepy. Now, we all know that highly capable designation in high school is meaningless (much like cluster-grouped Spectrum) - but if the ALO staff is allowed to add this essay to the identification requirements, they can add anything they'd like (a similar essay for middle school students, 98th percentile achievement scores for any grade in which the program is "too large", refusal to consider IQ scores for eligibility, etc.)
Thank you for posting the Superintendent's Procedure Lynn. This clarifies a lot, but brings up questions too. I wonder why they go to so much trouble just to *refer* HS students for testing? There are several rather subjective hoops to jump through ("current achievements and coursework?") before they will even look at CogAT and achievement numbers.
I'm also curious as to how many of these procedures are really happening in practice, because a few of them stand out:
>CogAT results prior to Open Enrollment -- It's been awhile since that was true.
>Individual student education plans reviewed annually at parent/teacher conference at elementary and middle schools -- Middle Schools don't have parent/teacher conferences so I'm not sure how they can do this.
>HCC students who don't enroll receive documented services the their current school -- This definitely was NOT our experience, but I'd like to hope that has changed since this official procedure was written.
good fit
High school students are identified because it's required by OSPI. Identification does not provide access to any services. I suspect they make the process so complicated to reduce the number of students referred.
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