Wednesday, November 15, 2017

Second HCS Advisory Committee email re:boundaries

Dear HCC community,

Last month the HCS AC sent an email to the District and Board of Directors regarding the high school boundaries as part of the Student Assignment Plan for the 2019-20 school year. The District then shared its proposal to create five pathway schools for the Highly Capable Students.

In response, following discussion at our November 7th HCS AC meeting and subsequent feedback, we revised our statement and sent it to the Superintendent and the Directors today in advance of any Board discussion (please see below). Final votes by the Board continue to be slated for January 2018 with implementation in Fall 2019.

We strongly encourage the HC community to participate in the Boundary Meetings and provide immediate feedback to the District regarding any potential changes to the HC pathways. Emails can be sent to schoolboard@seattleschools.org - superintendent@seattleschools.org and growthboundaries@seattleschools.org.

To: Superintendent Nyland and Directors
From: Highly Capable Services Advisory Committee
Date: November 15, 2017
Re: Proposed Highly Capable High School Pathways/Student Assignment Plan for 2019-20
Dear Superintendent Nyland and Directors Blanford, Burke, Geary, Harris, Pinkham, Patu, and Peters,
In light of the recent District proposal regarding highly capable pathways for high school and the upcoming Board vote on the Student Assignment Plan, the Highly Capable Services Advisory Committee (HCS AC) would like to voice its concerns and support for aspects of the proposed increase of the number of pathway schools to five. In particular, we:

  • Understand the rationale for the selection of Ballard and Roosevelt as HC pathways schools;

  • Are concerned about the selection of Lincoln attendance area students being assigned to Garfield as their pathway school;

  • Recommend that Garfield remain the only pathway school for the Central, Southeast and Southwest in 2019;

  • Suggest that the District first build up the AP and rigorous course offerings at Franklin and West Seattle first, then revisit the idea of making those schools HC pathway sites; and

  • Urge the District to grandfather current high school students and eighth graders into their current high school or pathway.

The HCS AC is comprised of teachers and parents at the elementary, middle and high school levels whose collective experience with highly capable students in our District spans several decades. We have reviewed the numbers of HC students in each of the proposed pathways (see attached) and considered the equity issues that currently and could potentially exist. Please consider our recommendations on the District proposals, rooted in the following analysis and supporting rationale.


Proposal for North End
  • Support: The redirection of Northeast and Northwest area HC students to north-end high schools alone would dramatically reduce the number of HC students at Garfield, easing Garfield’s capacity issue and providing an equitable experience closer to home for north-end students. Selecting Ballard and Roosevelt as pathway schools makes sense and aligns with trends: Many HC eligible students already choose their neighborhood school over Garfield (129 at Ballard, 155 at Roosevelt). Pathway changes diverting north-end HC students from Garfield would add about 300 HC students to both Ballard and Roosevelt, creating cohorts of 400-500 HC students at each. This would allow for effective delivery of counseling, meet their social emotional needs, and provide robust AP and elective offerings beyond the already-robust selection of courses (16 and 18 respectively) at both high schools.

  • Concern: We struggle with directing Lincoln-area students to Garfield for two reasons: commute challenges and prioritizing services closer to home. 1) The trip to the Central District is much more difficult than the trip to Ballard, particularly taking public transportation (Metro) in our city’s geography. In fact, this drives many families from Wallingford, Magnolia and Queen Anne to choose Ballard or Roosevelt over Garfield. 2) Lincoln-area families should have a north-end HC option. Under the current plan, if area HC students choose not to attend Garfield, they would be limited to a neighborhood school (Lincoln) which lacks access to the higher-level HC math and science classes they need, because Lincoln is a roll-up school with limited grades and associated classes in its first years of operation.

Proposal for Central, Southeast and Southwest
  • Concern: We strongly stand by our recommendation that Garfield remain the single HC pathway school for students in the Central, South and Southwest areas and not split for several reasons: resulting disparity in number of students, as well as impacts to course offerings, cohort size, and finances.

    • The splits would create a significant imbalance between the north and the south. Garfield has 428 HC students total, very similar to the potential number of HC students at Ballard or Roosevelt. Here is the current breakdown: 184 students from the Garfield area, 95 from Franklin, 41 from Rainier Beach, 32 from Chief Sealth, and 76 from West Seattle, totaling 428 students. The proposed splits would distribute HC students as such: Garfield, 184, Franklin, 146, and West Seattle, 145. This creates significantly smaller HC cohorts at these three high schools than at the two high schools in the north end, where Garfield, Franklin and West Seattle would have HC populations of 15% or less, compared to north-end HC populations of 30%.

    • No guarantee of course offering parity at Franklin and West Seattle. Currently, Franklin offers 10 AP classes and West Seattle offers 12. These schools would need to significantly increase their offerings before 2019 to align with Garfield, Ballard and Roosevelt. Despite District assurances--and we do support increased advanced learning options at all high schools--limited District resources and fewer Advanced Learners at Franklin and West Seattle would not be sufficient to drive a master schedule for these courses. West Seattle parents have voiced these concerns, and Franklin faces problematic programming of repetitious Physical Science and Biology courses in 9th grade when HC students would already have taken those classes in 7th and 8th grades. This raises many questions about whether the District could guarantee that HC students at Franklin and West Seattle have the same (or similar) offerings as students at Ballard, Roosevelt and at Garfield now, as well as what the process would be to address the scenario if parity did not come to fruition:

      • Would honors LA and SS options be offered in 9th grade as now at Garfield? Would Franklin require HC students to repeat Science as at Nathan Hale? Would Franklin adopt a new model, and would it be desired? What would the reduced number of HC students at Garfield mean for their ability to sustain current advanced learning offerings?

    • West Seattle parents have expressed a variety of opinions about a local high school pathway. Some support a HC pathway closer to home, while others are concerned that the smaller cohort size would make it challenging to expand the number of AP offerings at West Seattle High School.

    • Significant demographic changes could affect financing of Garfield activities. Currently 42% of Garfield are HC students and 38% of the school are Free-Reduced Lunch (FRL); this proposal would reduce the Garfield HC population to about 10%. For better or worse, the number of affluent students would drop significantly, thus affecting PTSA fundraising and music, drama and science fundraising that happens at Garfield. Whether the Garfield community regards these as positive changes is something that should be factored into the equation as well.
Another important consideration is the issue of underrepresentation in the Highly Capable Cohort. For decades, the District and this Committee have wrestled with the highly problematic fact that the Highly Capable Cohort does not reflect the demographic makeup of our district either racially or socio-economically. We believe that the place to address these problems is with testing and identification and with talent development for those students who show potential but do not yet have the achievement piece. Finding solutions at the pre-K and elementary levels is expected to bring results over time. It is important that we serve the needs of every child, including the highly capable cohort. Splintering current HC south-end students into three high schools would not solve the disproportionality problem.

For these reasons, we strongly urge the District to pause with the idea of splitting the HC students up among five high schools. The two schools in the North--Ballard and Roosevelt--already offer an array of AP courses along with robust arts programs, and the addition of more HC students at these schools would have negative impacts only if there is not capacity to accommodate them. Conversely, splitting HC students in the south across three high schools raises many questions and concerns about implementation and equity while only creating a fraction more capacity at Garfield (244 seats).

We strongly support the increase in AP offerings at Franklin and West Seattle. The District should commit the resources and work with those schools to create those opportunities first, then, in two more years (2019) look at whether the split of SE and SW HC students to those schools in 2020 makes sense. Changes of this magnitude to the HC model should be part of a larger plan for these students. We should not be looking at High School separately from the program as a whole.

Finally, we would like to reiterate our request for grandfathering of HC students at any of their current schools. Changes at the high-school level have significant implications for college entrance and any student or family who has committed to a particular high school should be allowed to continue down that road until graduation.

Thank you for your consideration.

Respectfully,

Highly Capable Services Advisory Committee

137 comments:

Anonymous said...

So hooray for getting most of the North End kids closer to home but too bad for the West Seattle and south students - they can deal with the traffic until the district gets it together with class offerings at closer schools? Since that might be a few years just keep them at Garfield so the Lincoln kids won't have worse offerings than they do now?


And hooray that things are going to be Ok at Roosevelt and Ballard. Which just happen to be the whitest and wealthiest schools in the district. And as a first priority make sure there are enough classes that Roosevelt and Ballard kids don't have trouble scheduling.

Seriously? So much of this letter comes off with the privilege our cohort gets accused of having too much of in the first place. What the district needs to do is promise that kids in all corners of the city have a baseline of advanced high school courses available to them. A baseline. Even if it costs us money for not full classes in some schools. Do we really think communities of color and poverty will ever increase in HCC if we don't get these classes to them in schools near them? That baseline is the first priority in splitting up the program. The second priority is outreach to kids of color and poverty to get them into the program and support them in the program. The third priority in one new north end pathway. Not two. One. Ingraham already has IB. With boundaries drawn accordingly.

Not saying the advisory committee did not put thought into the letter. But disagree with its conclusions, priority and tone. Sorry. It's the district's fault it's come to this anyway. The program should have been shored up before these boundary changes came along. Everything seems a mess.

Doctor Hu said...

"We have reviewed the numbers of HC students in each of the proposed pathways (see attached) and considered the equity issues that currently and could potentially exist."

Is this HCS Advisory pathway numbers attachment available for posting with their email? I'm looking forward to seeing the different HC pathway numbers based on current 2017-18 HCC enrollment.

Doctor Hu said...

Now I see the HCS Advisory's numbers attachment -- already posted on the Pathway Demographics thread -- thanks!

Anonymous said...

anyonymous-- You are so off base I don't know where to start. They are proposing the district add AP courses and pathways to Franklin & W Seattle...FIRST. Not just plop down kids who will not receive their basic right to an education (access to advanced classes for HC) under state law. You cannot see the forest through the trees as you are biased in your assumptions.

Benjamin Leis said...

Two moderator notes: please use an authenticated id or sign with an alias to reduce confusion.

Secondly before anything escalates remember to not engage in ad hominem attacks. That ultimately makes this blog more readable.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

"Finally, we would like to reiterate our request for grandfathering of HC students at any of their current schools. Changes at the high-school level have significant implications for college entrance and any student or family who has committed to a particular high school should be allowed to continue down that road until graduation."

So, changes at the high-school level only affect college entrance for HC kids? HC kids should be allowed to stay at their current schools even when they pick a non-pathway option. But the rest of the kids just get shuffled around when the boundaries change because who cares about their college entrance? How is this fair?

-parent

Anonymous said...

The most obvious location for an additional HC pathway is Lincoln. Why is this not being proposed as the additional HC pathway in the north end? If HC families are already choosing RHS and BHS, great, why then make them HC pathways? The board, not the Lincoln principal, should be guiding program placement, and in a way that makes bleeping sense for the district as a whole. So disappointed in the HCS-AC letter.

(and, yes, @parent, I had the same thoughts)

good grief

Anonymous said...

"Pathway changes diverting north-end HC students from Garfield would add about 300 HC students to both Ballard and Roosevelt, creating cohorts of 400-500 HC students at each. "

Are they assuming this much of a change in 2019? Ingraham also plays into any estimates and whether they lift the cap or not.

Anonymous said...

I think the board knows the advisory committee is comprised of individuals who volunteer their time and energy because they care and they can, but they are not elected and don't do any outreach, therefore are only representative of the views of the individuals willing to show up to their meetings.

Perspective

Anonymous said...

@parent-- I did not read it that way at all. It is the job of this particular committee to advocate for HC students. Agree? Can they not do even that? What about you replaced the word HC with ELL or special ed?

In that statement they state this " Changes at the high-school level have significant implications for college entrance and any student or family who has committed to a particular high school should be allowed to continue down that road until graduation."

They are not advocating AGAINST grandfathering any other students! In addition, 11th and 12th graders will be grandfathered as Lincoln will open as a 9/10.
-another parent

Anonymous said...

I completely think this letter is on target on multiple points and addresses some of the bigger concerns like splitting the south end pathways too soon. The Lincoln idea has too much going against it. I support the letter and the position and I am a parent and not on the committee.
-R

Anonymous said...


@another parent -- Yes, I do agree that the committee is advocating for HC students and yes they can do that. They are not advocating AGAINST grandfathering any other students. But they are advocating for allowing 10th grade HC students to stay at Roosevelt and Ballard knowing full well that other 10th graders will not have that choice at all. So, even though they are not advocating AGAINST other students, they are asking for preferential treatment for HC students.

And yes, they can choose to do that. I'm just saying the rest of the 10th graders are not going to see that as fair. Would it work for all the 10th graders to ask to be grandfathered at their current schools? There is not a chance of that happening with all the overcrowding and with a new school opening. So, the non-HC kids that get moved out of Roosevelt or Ballard - what should they advocate for? And who advocates for them? Are there needs considered to be less than HC students?

I realize this is an HCC blog, so HCC parents will interpret the letter a certain way and non-HCC parents will interpret it a different way. We'll just have to agree to disagree in how we read the letter.

-parent

Anonymous said...

I would be hesitant to assume Lincoln will open as a 9-10. Yes, that's what's been put out there, but it's not a given.

Anonymous said...

@Parent-- Is it fair that those HC 10th graders at Ballard & Roosevelt would have to travel all the way down to Garfield to have their needs met when a closer HC school is available? The other 10th graders would move to Lincoln. It is the committee's job to advocate for the HC kids. That is what they have done. HC kids are moved around like chess pieces and historically have been split and moved around more than anyone else. Has this been fair? Or is this o.k? Maybe you are on the wrong blog.
-another parent.

Anonymous said...


@another parent - Yes, I'm on the wrong blog! But I read this blog because I believe that the High School Boundaries and HC pathways are not independent decisions. One depends on the other and I cannot understand how the district staff can make them independently. I'm here because what happens to HC pathways affects not just HC kids but non-HC kids as well. I'm here because I actually believe that making Lincoln the HC pathway would really resolve a lot of the issues with the pathways and boundary changes. And yes, I do agree that HC kids have gotten moved around and split and none of it is fair and no I don't think it is ok. And yes it truly sucks that Lincoln kids may have to go to Garfield to get their needs met. So, I think we are on the same page as far as all those things are concerned.

And yes, the HC committee can advocate for HC kids but that still doesn't make it fair to the rest of the kids. Or are you saying it is fair because HC kids have been treated unfairly?

-parent

Anonymous said...

Honestly I read that statement as mostly referring to grandfathering at Garfield and Ingraham. Or you could take it more generally as don't move kids around unless you generally have to (which is true for everyone) but the committee only chose to speak for its constituents. In either case, its a small issue overall, and everyone can send their own message directly to the board. I'd hate to see the more important part: advocating to not split the South End lost in fight over a small detail. And given its a non binding letter from an advisory committee, the staff I'm sure will be looking for signs of dissent to ignore it.

Likewise, those wanting to continue to fight for Lincoln as a pathway (which the the committee did in its first letter) should keep on pushing. There are lots of points of agreement about what could be improved in the current proposal. The key in my mind is not get overly divided and have all the messages cancel out leaving the staff to do what it will.

= another parent

Anonymous said...


wow. thanks 'parents' who post here. i do agree this would have much better stated as: "finally, we would like to reiterate our request for grandfathering of all junior and senior students at any of their current schools for the 2019-20 school year." any future communication should say that as it is the only responsible thing for the district to do with 400 students to 1 counselor.

and heck yeah the district has played this one to the nth degree. why not lincoln?!?! why all schools being pathways therefore (no pathways). why use thoughtexchange to talk about changes happening to all al (no they really meant hcc) and send it to every family and have no concrete examples to site. why send out 7 priorities that don't even discuss the options, but again just vagaries? why does anyone listen to michael tolley anymore? who is wyeth and why does he seem so ill prepared to do this job.

finally, can you call it engagement when you make 80% of the decisions and then throw it open for discussion. oh and many of their prior decisions are against what they tout as goals of proximity and equity. if that was the fact LINCOLN should have been a hcc school. WHY WASN't? Some people need to move on. i am staying.

no caps

Anonymous said...

I agree with the commenters above who say that it would make the most sense and would be the least disruptive to have Lincoln HS be the HCC pathway for the north end. It would have been such an easy solution because the Lincoln boundaries could be drawn accordingly small (leaving space for HCC), and very few people (if any) would be upset because they are in the Roosevelt or Ballard HS boundaries instead of Lincoln. I wrote a long an e-mail to the board and SPS staff, also including the Lincoln principal, regarding this yesterday. Perhaps they will come to their senses?


Wallingford Mom

Anonymous said...

Thank geary, she no like fair. Kids first geary and Brantford. Shills.

2dimes

Anonymous said...

I realize this is a contentious issue for some (many), but I think if y'all take a deep breath, you will see that the committee is just trying to work with the mess the District has given them. In their first recommendation, the HCCAS explicitly said that they didn't have a preference for which school the District chose as its Northend pathway. When the District decided to move forward with the 5-Pathway plan with Ballard and Roosevelt as the Northend pathways, the HCCAS evolved their position to deal with the District's plan. I am not on the committee, but it seems to me the important message here is that there just aren't enough HCC kids in the Southend to support three additional pathways.

As for the grandfathering issue, of course it would be great if no kids were disrupted and all were allowed to stay at their schools. However, the District is changing boundaries, at least in part, to deal with overcrowding. There is little chance the District can effectively deal with overcrowding without moving kids around. The point here is that HCC kids are at a certain school to get access to certain course offerings. If you start moving them around, that opportunity likely goes away. In theory, non-HCC schools are supposed to offer essentially the same course offerings to all (of course we know that is not really true in practice), so the District should be able to move non-HCC kids around without as much disruption. In theory.

-Mike (parent of one HCC and one non-HCC kiddo)

Anonymous said...

I completely agree with Mike's really great points. In addition, it is not an all or nothing decision. HC kids are already at Ballard & Roosevelt schools in their neighborhood. Please come together and focus on some of the really important issues like not splitting the HCC in the south end. I support this proposal and I encourage other parents to support it as well and write SPS and the board.
- Hope

Anonymous said...

"In either case, its a small issue overall, and everyone can send their own message directly to the board. I'd hate to see the more important part: advocating to not split the South End lost in fight over a small detail."

Yes and I agree with previous poster Mike as well. I am supporting this proposal as I think it would be more achievable (than the Lincoln single pathway idea) with the current situation. I also think it could result in a better outcome on many levels in the long run. I am also advocating they grandfather where they can especially 11th and 12th graders. If they move those kids, it is not only disruptive but also could likely impact college entrance requirements.
-A Mom

Anonymous said...

So what happens to a non-HCC kid in a pathway school? They are likely going to lose access to AP courses because there are suddenly many more HCC students who have priority access to advanced coursework.

Master schedules should be driven by enrollment to serve all students.

~FHS85

Anonymous said...

@FHS85-- The principals insist that does not happen. In fact I am told priority access has been rarely to never ever used. Counselors have said there is not usually a problem with any student registering for AP classes. Mass usually drives demand. But I am guessing younger HC students cannot access running start while a junior or senior can. Just a guess where this could occur. If a school is significantly over capacity and cannot serve all its students in its building what do they do? They have to right size the school to serve all students in the school. This is the risk.
-H

Anonymous said...

@FH85-- You should be aware you are under a misconception. All schools including Garfield have had to send students to running start this year. This was not only non-HCC it also included HC 11th and 12th graders.
-BV

Anonymous said...

HCC or not Garfield is sending sophomores to running start. Can't speak for other SPS high schools.

FYI

Anonymous said...

Running Start is a state program and is only available to students in 11th and 12th grade.

http://www.k12.wa.us/SecondaryEducation/CareerCollegeReadiness/RunningStart.aspx

Anonymous said...

Technically, they need junior standing, so how does a sophomore qualify? MS credits?

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous. I assure you Garfield is sending sophomores to running start.

If Garfield is doing it no doubt other schools are too.

To be clear: I fully believe running start is the HCC and high school administration solution to advanced learning and overcrowding.

We're headed to private. My kids need 4 years in a stable community. Not a commute on a bus every day juggling between an overcrowded high school and a community college whose classes are not built for the age group of a mid-teen.

A comprehensive report of how many Seattle kids are shunted to running start really needs to happen.

FYI

Anonymous said...

Anyone have evidence of 10th graders being pushed to Running Start? If so, please provide this.

And can anyone articulate the argument AGAINST making Lincoln the North End HCC school? Are these arguments pedagogical or political?

Concerned parent

Anonymous said...

Running start is an option for 11th and 12th graders only. 10th graders would not be eligible to participate.

Anonymous said...

@Concerned Parent-- The principal does not want dual language or HCC at the school. The principal will not support either program and are against it philosophically. They would need to replace the principal and axe the planning they have been doing for the last year. The district is also pushing hard against this idea.
-K

Anonymous said...

A comprehensive report of how many Seattle kids are shunted to running start really needs to happen.

Agree, though the District probably does not have info on WHY students are choosing RS.

The principal does not want dual language or HCC at the school.
How is it for the principal to decide? If Lincoln becomes an HCC or LI pathway (Board decision), and she does not support the needed classes, then, yes, I'd say they need to find another principal.

Anonymous said...

I'm curious about what classes Garfield offers to HCC 9th & 10th graders. My daughter attends Ballard and there weren't any offered for 9th graders. 10th graders can take AP world history.

N by NW

Anonymous said...

Are you talking about AP classes specifically? I don't know exactly which they'll allow 9th and 10th graders to take, but theoretically if you're ready and you've met the prerequisites (some kind of need to be done there, some can be done in middle school) you should be able to take it, no?

Based on the catalog it looks like the most commonly feasible AP classes for 9th graders would be:
AP Biology
AP Macroeconomics
AP Calculus AB

In 10th the options increase. Some could maybe even be done in 9th if a student were ready? Although GHS might just block them from that, who knows?

10th:
AP Calculus AB or BC
AP Statistics (if pre-calc done)
AP World History
AP Studio Art
AP Computer Science A
AP Microeconomics
AP Chemistry (if took Chem in 9th instead of AP Bio?)
AP Environmental Science
AP Physics C: Mechanics (if took Chem in 9th and took/taking Calculus)
AP World Language (French, Japanese, or Spanish, assuming they tested into level 4 for 9th grade)

I'm sure this list isn't perfect, but I have no doubt someone--or many someones--will correct my errors.

wikimommia

Robert said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

It's a bit unfair to attack Lincoln over dual immersion. The problem is that there is no dual immersion at Hamilton so language immersion ends with elementary school. How could Lincoln take off from where elementary school lets off? Hamilton would have to have dual immersion in order for Lincoln to have it. At Hamilton, they call the language program "immersion", but it's really one language class a day, and it doesn't look like that's going to change. I think the district did what it could by keeping Ingraham IB as an option for McDonald and JSIS students. I have been to the Lincoln meetings, and even before the principal was hired, I always felt like there was an implication that it would be a comprehensive, neighborhood high school, not an HCC one. The district left Garfield as the HCC pathway for McDonald and JSIS, so no change there either.

Helen

Anonymous said...

I would love some actual information on what AP classes kids are taking from parents on the ground rather than just inference from the course catalogs.

WhatsHappening

Anonymous said...

"AP world was in 9th but the kids coming from HIMS weren't prepared so they nixed it. So only honors classes now."

That is a complete rumor that is completely untrue. I contacted Garfield's chair Richard Truax about it awhile back and he wrote a lengthy email as to why they made the change. He was so angry about that rumor and could not believe it was still circulating. He said it went back to animosity between WMS parents and HIMS parents. Don't believe it people. Totally untrue as to why it was changed. Ask Truax.
investigative reporter

Anonymous said...

@WhatsHappening- What kids are taking can be a bit deceiving. Example, so at Ingraham 9th & 10th grade HC parents will tell you the science honors courses could hardly be called honors. While at BHS 9th & 10th grade HC parents will tell you REGULAR chemistry and regular physics are very very good. My HC child's best science teacher ever (former scientist, Ph.d in science) who has an HC student at BHS, had commented was very impressed with the regular chem class.
June

Anonymous said...

@ WhatsHappening, they don't all take the same thing. Are you just wanting to hear proof that something is available at a certain grade? Or hear what a particular class by a particular teacher is like? Are you trying to get a sense of what's more typical? Or perhaps what's less typical, since those classes might be the most likely to disappear?

WhatsGoal?

Anonymous said...

BHS is rocking currently. The QA/Mag kids are coming in well prepared as are the Ballard kids. The stability provided by the SAP has created a solid school. HCC students are starting to come in from Hamilton. There are freshpersons taking pre-calc this year so presumably the school will have AP Stat when they are seniors, or some other math class beyond Calc.

Salmom Bay is offering geometry, I don't know about McClure or Whitman or Blaine. I think it's too bad if all the McClure kids leave, it seems a nice grouping now, but the school is just too packed.

Castor

Benjamin Leis said...

I'd be interested too in both what's happening and what's typical.

SusanH said...

I can weigh in as a parent. I just made a similar comment on Melissa's blog.

I have a 10th grader at Garfield. He didn't take any AP classes in 9th grade. The only AP classes anyone he knows took in 9th grade were language classes (AP French or Japanese), and that was just a few people. In 9th grade he took "Honors" Algebra 2 and Chemistry. They were mixed grade classes (which is fine), but also a mix of Honors and regular students, so you had to decide to opt for honors and show a higher level of understanding (that surprised me...)

Then in 10th, there are quite a few AP classes in play. My son is in AP World History (along with most of his friends). He is in AP Chemistry; other 10th graders take AP Bio or AP Environmental Science. Lots of kids are in AP language in 10th, or AP Studio Art.

I would add that I hear so much worry on these blogs about the Garfield culture being anti-HCC, but my son and his friends love it there. They feel welcomed and challenged and 100% part of the gang. And because there are a lot of HCC kids there, there seem to be plenty of sections of advanced classes available. So we haven't found the scheduling to be hard at all. Knock on wood. We'll see what 11th grade brings.

Anonymous said...


Thanks Susan. Yeah it is ok now and yeah there are zero AP options for anyone at GHS. Not sure if any school offers AP for freshmen. Yet the Robinson Center offers UW classes to some of the few who get in. Hum.

Going forward with 5 + 1 (IBx -ish) is ridiculous as there really are only 4 sites in Seattle that have supported HCC kids. GHS, BHS, IHS and RHS. Most of them have a cohort over 150 kids 9-12. All other attendance area schools have Less than 25 kids 9-12.

As Susan said good now.

Let's see

Anonymous said...

@Concerned Parent "And can anyone articulate the argument AGAINST making Lincoln the North End HCC school? Are these arguments pedagogical or political?"

Yes. Here is one thought. HC students are already choosing their closest neighborhood schools of Ballard & Roosevelt. There is solid data and also information they are being served at least as effectively as Garfield. If Lincoln becomes a single north end pathway, would parents choose to send their kids further away in significant numbers? This would dilute Lincoln and possibly really compromise the Hc pathway at Lincoln.

Also, HC are so used to having their kids ripped out and moved around and sending our kids all over the city. Why shouldn't an HC kid be served in their closest neighborhood school if their are already the numbers there and the school is already providing a solid program? Let that sink in for a minute. Do they not have as much of a right to be at their neighborhood school?

I am amazed at how loud SOME (not all) non-HC families are shouting to have to travel, when HC families don't raise so much of a peep being told they will need to travel even further to recieve their services. Not to mention that many HC families have had to change schools previously or seen friends leave from splits. Is that fair treatment?

For my example Ex Magnolia HC (To Garfield) and Magnolia non-HC (Lincoln). Geeze HC kids from QA & Magnolia have been traveling to Hamilton to receive HC services (next to Lincoln) without a peep. HC families are quite humbled and in my opinion have been pushed around so much they don't even think as much about their rights to have a closer location of service.
-thoughts

Anonymous said...

@thoughts

The key here is that we are not a monolithic group. Different families have different needs and priorities. I'd push back on your main point. Its important to recognize that most families currently choose Garfield/Ingraham with a minority going to Ballard or Roosevelt. We can infer that travelling farther away still offers something compelling for all these other students.

Likewise, its not immediately obvious that if we asked everyone, serving kids in their original building would really be a top priority. I think its just as likely many would agree to trade-off travel time for better services. And I'd go one step farther and say that many feel a building with a large concentration of kids is more likely to offer better services for several reasons: efficiency, experience with the student group, sufficient mass for classes etc.

-more thoughts.


Anonymous said...

@Concerned Parent-- The data provided info that Roosevelt & Ballard each had 150-180 HC kids and keep in mind the larger bubble on its way. Do you believe those families and future families who live very close to a neighborhood school that is already serving them well, WITH principals who are supportive, will LEAVE for the unknown? I think we need to be more flexible in our thinking. I supported the original idea of Lincoln BEFORE I saw the data.

I do not think at this point Lincoln would have more kids. I think Roosevelt, Ballard & Ingraham will continue to draw HC kids in their neighborhoods.

I think we should be focusing energy on the south end and arguing against the split. It is a much bigger issue of HC kids being split off to schools that are not yet ready to support their needs.
-Thoughts

Anonymous said...

Sorry that was primarily in response toward "more thoughts" not concerned parent
-Thoughts

Anonymous said...

@more thoughts- Is there data that Lincoln will serve HC kids any better than Roosevelt or Ballard and why we should ignore the fact that the principal assigned does not support the idea of this program at her school.

Considering the new data presented that Roosevelt & BHS already are providing for HC students & that robust cohorts are imminent. We need to adjust and advocate forward. I highly doubt single pathway advocates will be able to sway HC parents to give it all up and advocate for Lincoln.
P.S And why should they have to! They have just as much a right to receive services at their neighborhood school that is already serving them well. Let that sink in. I know it is hard for some to think of HC not being moved somewhere "else" for service.
-thoughts

Anonymous said...

So nobody here is concerned about middle school Spectrum students who have no choice but to attend Franklin or West Seattle? I bet they’d like to have access to a variety of AP classes and high quality music programs.

Anonymous said...

All students including spectrum have access to 10-12 AP courses at W Seattle & Franklin. Spectrum was a service created by the district and is not the same as ELL, special Ed & HC under the law. HC students are accelerated in more areas and would come in needing some different courses for alignment than spectrum. HC kids it is defined as a "basic education". Not the same for spectrum.

Anonymous said...


"HC students are accelerated in more areas and would come in needing some different courses for alignment than spectrum."

I may be wrong, but I think this only applies to the Science courses. LA/SS are the same curriculum across HCC/Spectrum/Gen-Ed. Middle School Math is no longer part of HCC but has its own pathway and non-HCC kids can take higher levels of Math classes, so those kids would need the same levels of Math in High School as HCC kids. There is no Spectrum Science, so Gen-Ed/Spectrum kids would not have the prerequisites for some of the Science classes that the HCC kids would need in High School.

-parent

NESeattleMom said...

I'd like to chime in with SusanH. My 9th grade son at GHS likes it there, feels welcome, has friends and enjoys school. He wanted to go there because my GHS 2016 grad loved going there. The same experience seems to be still available this year. Some 8th grade parents I run into and chat with are afraid to send their HCC student there because of supposed lack of welcome. But among the students I don't think they feel it.

Anonymous said...

As the parent of an HCC 7th grader at Washington (who is also a musician with sights on Garfield's jazz program) I encourage all of you - in fact, I outright plead with you - to advocate for the Board to reject the proposal that will send south and west HCC students to Franklin and West Seattle. Judging from the posts, this blog is dominated by north and central parents. Please, don't forget the south and west students. It looks a lot different from this end of town.

Franklin and West Seattle are fine high schools, but there is no question that the advanced course offerings - to say nothing of music - pale in comparison to Garfield's. All you have to do is check the course catalogs, which are online.

I have written to my Director, I have written to the Operations Committee, I have written to the entire Board. I am only one parent. Even if you are comfortable with your student's potential assignment to RHS or Ballard, please, let's try to unify around this.

Ruthie

Anonymous said...

The Spectrum kids at JAMS are even more screwed because they are automatically put into the same classes as HCC kids (including ELA, history, and science) but then have to go to Nathan Hale.

George

Anonymous said...

Ruthie,

Again, my Spectrum student is going to have to attend West Seattle High School even though he’d prefer to access Garfield’s jazz program and superior advanced course offerings. If West Seattle is able to offer 3-4 AP classes per year for 10th-12th grade, it can meet an HC student’s needs.

Anonymous said...

@ parent - HC LA/SS are also 2 years ahead in standards. My kid's middle school SS and LA teachers addressed this curriculum night & let us know they were teaching to high school standards.
@ Ruthie-- I don't think the small number of HC kids would make a dent at W Seattle high school. But those kids may be at risk of not having their basic educational needs met by state law. You child has their basic educational needs met by state law. Alot of kids would like to go to Garfield. that's a different conversation. If you don't like W Seattle, maybe you might want to move. But it is not right to advocate against any kids whether ELL or special ed or HC right to stay at a school where their "basic" educational needs are met as defined by state law.
-all kids

Anonymous said...

That comment was meant for anonymous (not Ruthie) Nov 17th 2:25PM. Also, anonymous it is not up to you to decide if W Seattle can meet an HC students needs. The ovewhelming majority of people including HCS AC and many parents do not agree with you. You don't even have an HC student! I sense you are a troll. I would never argue against meeting the needs of other people's kids.
-all kids

Anonymous said...

@anonymous 2:25PM So you want more for your spectrum kid above and beyond a basic education. Maybe think about enrolling your child in enrichment outside of school. There are all sort of wonderful robotics clubs, music organizations, activities etc. Your high school will also offer your child not only the course alignment BUT ALSO many AP courses to challenge them above and beyond what is required for your child by state law. Many kids from W Seattle go to great colleges. If you have a problem with W Seattle, then maybe think about moving. Bellevue has great schools.
-all kids

Anonymous said...

Wow, it could be a single question on a single test taken in kindergarten that differentiates Spectrum and HCC. These are children, and the attitude toward this is turning my stomach.

2inHCC

Anonymous said...

Mine too. My child is in a blended HCC/Spectrum class at Fairmount Park. It’s really unpleasant to hear this attitude from someone I could know and might even consider a friend.

Anonymous said...

Why is everybody attacking the Spectrum parent? The point is well taken.

If a Spectrum student at Jane Addams or Fairmont Park is accelerated in math and starts high school at Hale or West Seattle in Pre-Calc, they have real problem, don't they?

According to a previous poster Ballard doesn't currently have classes beyond Calculus B/C but has enrolled 9th graders taking Pre-Calc.

I think the real problem is going to be scheduling, but that is tough for many kids in special programs from the Ballard Academies to IB.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 10:41, You don't need a class "beyond" Calc BC in that case. None of our students do. AP Stats is fine. Pre-calc, then Calc AB, then Calc BC, then AP Stats. Or inset Stats between the Calcs if you like.

If an advanced math student really doesn't want AP Stats, at that point they can opt for Running Start and take linear algebra or multivariable calculus or such. The same is true for students who are more advanced than this and won't be able to find enough math options in SPS--but they've probably been taking classes outside the district all along anyway.

Maths paths

Anonymous said...

"Again, my Spectrum student is going to have to attend West Seattle High School even though he’d prefer to access Garfield’s jazz program and superior advanced course offerings. If West Seattle is able to offer 3-4 AP classes per year for 10th-12th grade, it can meet an HC student’s needs."

Spectrum is a program created by the district, not by state law. It is not the same and the WAC and law does not consider them same as ELL, special Ed, or HC. The many AP courses offered at W Seattle are considered more than a basic education for your spectrum student & their socio-emotional needs are also considered met. In addition you do not have an HCC student so it is not up to you to judge "their needs" any more than I who does not have an ELL student, should decide on the the program delivery needs for an ELL student.

-PL

Anonymous said...

You’re a real charmer PL. As it happens, I do have an HC student in addition to my Spectrum student. You can get away with this we need something so different line in elementary and middle school but in high school you’re just asking for more servings of the same thing every college bound student wants. You can get the thing the district gives you (AP classes) at any high school in the district.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't want to be in the trenches with some of you. You throw each other under the bus the minute your self-interest is at stake.

Like it or not, PL, anonymous is stating the point that is clear to many and is in the process of becoming district policy. Not only that, if you really want to play the "state law" card, you better be prepared to include single subject gifted and actually get students periodically evaluated for the need for continued HC services.

If you want to go there, let's go there.

Get Real

Anonymous said...

@ Get Real, what do you mean about state requirements for periodic reevaluation? I don't remember seeing that anywhere, and even if it were in there, grades/report cards should be enough. If a student qualified for acceleration, entered the program, and is continuing to do well, that should be evidence of the continued need for acceleration (as opposed to a sudden deceleration and repeats of years' worth of material).

RE: Anon's statement that "you can get the thing the district gives you (AP classes) at any high school in the district," that's not really so. "AP classes" isn't a singular thing to either get or not. When you're talking about AP classes, the range of classes and the number of sections of each is important. A simple example is Calculus BC, which is offered by very few high schools. If you take Algebra 1 in 6th grade or 7th grade, you're likely going to need access to Calc BC. Of the students who take Alg 1 in 6th grade, what percentage do you think are non-HC?

The key issue is whether or not students have access to a course sequence that works for all their years of high school.

maths paths

Anonymous said...

Yes, students who take Algebra I in 6th grade need access to a school that offers Calculus BC. This is a small subset of HCC students.

The range of AP classes and the number of sections of each is important for every high achieving student whether they’re HC identified or not.

Pro Choice said...

Having one HC pathway high school in central/south and one HC pathway high school in north Seattle along with the Ingraham IB option pathway would allow for more room at the other high schools. This space freed up at the other high schools would allow choice seats. So that if a student wanted to attend a school with lots of college prep math course offerings, but happened to be assigned to a school that focused on project-based learning, they would be able to choose a school they felt was a better fit for them. Or if a student wants a specific high school for sports reasons or music reasons or a program with a stronger social justice emphasis, having pathway high schools for HC students THAT HC STUDENTS WERE LIKELY TO CHOOSE TO ATTEND (like because they were close enough to physically get to, etc.), then the other schools would be able to accept choice students who were coming to access things they were particularly strong in. Or if your student had been bullied all through middle school by a particular clique of students, having HC pathway high schools would allow the flexibility for your student to CHOOSE to attend a different high school than all the middle school bullies and make a fresh start. Without CHOICE, everyone is stuck. And having strong HC choices is what helps make every other kind of choice possible. Including choices made by high achieving students seeking access to a high school with a lot of toothy rigorously college prep courses.

Anonymous said...

Ballard offers AP Calc A/B and AP Calc B/C but it does not offer AP Stats.

AP Science offerings = AP Bio & AP Chem.

I think many, may students are using Running Start to access higher level classes.

N by NW

Anonymous said...

According to the 2017-18 master schedule, IHS offered the following (number of sections):

AP Calc AB (3)
AP Calc BC (1)
AP Stats (4)
AP Computer Science (1)

That's in addition to IB HL courses (some colleges only consider the 2 year IB HL courses on par with AP):

IB Math HL (1)
IB Biology HL (2)
IB Psychology (2)

At the IB SL level:

IB ESS (2)
IB Chemistry (1)
IB Biology (3)
IB Physics (3)
IB Computer Science (1)
IB Psychology (3)

...and then there's Running Start.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

@Concerned Parent-- The principal does not want dual language or HCC at the school. The principal will not support either program and are against it philosophically. They would need to replace the principal and axe the planning they have been doing for the last year. The district is also pushing hard against this idea.
-K

November 16, 2017 at 1:59 PM

May I ask what evidence there is that "The [Lincoln] principal does not want dual language or HCC at the school."

And is it really up to the prospective principal to determine what program(s) is/are in place at that school?

Anyone shed any light (and evidence) on the heat here?

--Concerned Parent

Anonymous said...

@concerned parent-- I agree with your point about program placement not being up to the principal etc. I would be more concerned of the point that if HC parents push for Lincoln to be made a single pathway, other HC parents will continue to send kids to BHS and RHS and Ingraham HS. The data indicates those schools have good numbers already and are working and close to home. You will indeed end up with many small splits in practice.
realist

Anonymous said...

@concerned parent-- Here are some additional reasons for HC parents to not support a single north end pathway at this juncture:
1. Many HC parents do not feel their kids should be "used" and moved around at whim to manage district capacity problems. There is no other good reason for them to move their kids out of BHS & RHS in their neighborhoods where they are already being served well. They have just as much of a right to be at neighborhood schools as long as they can serve them. Many HC parents stayed in neighborhood schools unless the school could not serve them in earlier years.
2. Lincoln will be a new school. So HC gets all the "new schools" Cascadia, Eaglestaff & Lincoln?
3. They would theoretically be separated in a cohort at Lincoln (although not in practice as many will still choose RHS,BHS & Ingraham). There is resistance to this idea of a HC cohort being too large (more than 30%) at the high school level. There is good evidence neighborhood spectrum & general ed kids in the north end also take AP courses.
-thoughts

Anonymous said...

I agree with ^^ thoughts. We moved our HC student in elementary because we were at an ALO school in NE (take a wild guess) that didn't offer walk to math and considered sending large packets of worksheets home with my child to work on with the rents an answer to serving HC needs. If we were at Hazelwolf or another northend school with real differentiation, we would have stayed in a heartbeat. No question that we will select RHS or private for high school before sending our kids to GHS or LHS. We are tired of being pawns and truly wish there could be a higher standard set across the board at every school as baseline. Give all kids more credit for their potential!

Raise the Bar

Benjamin Leis said...

I'm still in the process of getting an accurate picture of current enrollment but some themes are emerging. One thing you should keep in mind is that the current 9th grade cohort had a huge jump in size versus 10th grade. The prev year was 261 kids and this one is 424 (minus whomever left for private). So even though numbers rose at neighborhood schools they may have risen as much or more at Garfield. (I hope to get the last missing data soon which will clarify this.)

Secondly, the overall numbers at Roosevelt already look extremely unbalanced. There are 537 9th graders vs the right size of maybe 425ish. At Ballard its a little less extreme and also more likely to be significantly alleviated by the Lincoln opening.

Anonymous said...

"The [Lincoln] principal does not want dual language or HCC at the school. The principal will not support either program and are against it philosophically. They would need to replace the principal and axe the planning they have been doing for the last year. The district is also pushing hard against this idea.
-K"

Once again, what evidence is there that the Lincoln principal does not want dual language or HCC at Lincoln?

Thanks for shedding light.

Concerned parent

Anonymous said...

She has said so in front of people. Did you not go to any of the planning meetings? Principals are only held accountable for providing high school graduation standards, nothing above that, so a principal not liking a program that goes outside basic high school graduation can and does mean they just won't offer those classes. This is true for advanced classes, AP classes, higher level language as in LI, anything.

-NJP

Anonymous said...

@Concerned parent-- I personally know parents who had multiple conversations with her at the planning meetings and came away with that same information NJP mentioned. Those programs are not in her plan of project based learning.
Trish

Anonymous said...

No AP at Lincoln? AP classes are offered everywhere, even at Nova, aren't they?

Anonymous said...

I have two HCC kids at Fairmount park. I am nervous that West Seattle High won't have enough people taking AP classes to have more than one offering of each class. One offering means that you have the same kids for every class and that there is absolutly no flexabilty to the schedual. Because I don't see that happening anytime soon, I advocating not to split the south end HCC cohort.

2@FP

Anonymous said...

2@FP

Get this: It's all location, location, location and has always been the
case. Read "Guns, Germs & Steel".

You are correct to worry (typos and all, bless your heart).

Information has always been in the domain of the privileged.

Good Luck

Anonymous said...

2@FP

Me too. I’m worried that WSHS won’t have enough people taking AP classes for a full schedule. Difference is that my kid can’t escape to Garfield. Does that sound equitable to you?

Anonymous said...

You are correct to worry.

So are all of the parents who have been sending their children to those schools.

It's all about parent income and equity. Period.

Enough parents bailed out of Garfield for Roosevelt and Ballard, which set this plan in motion.

Now, the leftovers will suffer.

What's new about that? Far from equitable, but a persistent reality.

Good Luck

Anonymous said...

look at about time and her gumption. no kids but let us just imagine how they are being mistreated. and critiquing someone's typos as a teacher with zero logical analysis skills. i will take some bad grammar over bad logic.

Anonymous said...

@Good Luck -" Bailed Out"? Try they would have sent their kids to Garfield (so many sent older siblings) but traffic got worse and bus service was eliminated. So they sent their kids to "public" neighborhood schools. Do they not have a right? More and more the middle and working class are also becoming targets and REALLY broad assumptions made about people's backgrounds and histories.
You read a book like Guns Germs and Steel and you think you can apply it correctly. In fact, lately in our "Trump Era" diverse scholars of diverse racial backgrounds have been writing about the need for the lower and middle classes of all colors to come together to realize their shared interests.
-come together

Anonymous said...

@Nov 24 1:13AM "I’m worried that WSHS won’t have enough people taking AP classes for a full schedule." You say your kid cannot go to Garfield so I am assuming your kid is not HC. I think this is "spectrum parent".

I would not worry. If your kid is advanced math, they will have an AP pathway at WSHS. if they are not HC, they would not come in needing the same AP science trajectory.

There are at least 10 AP classes at WSHS, enough classes for the students who attend who drive the course offerings. The students who attend WSHS and their wants and needs drive the offerings.

If you put a very small amount of HC students there though who come in needing certain classes that are not there or need a full schedule AP classes (but not have enough general ed students to take them alongside) that could be an issue.

The HC kids WILL NOT INCREASE AP OFFERINGS FOR YOUR Spectrum/Gen ED STUDENT AT WSHS AS THERE ARE TOO FEW OF THEM TO MAKE A DENT. IT IS THE MASSES OF SPECTRUM AND GENERAL ED STUDENTS PLUS LARGE NUMBER OF HC STUDENTS THAT CREATE MANY AP COURSES AT BHS AND RHS.

In sum taking an education away from other public school kids does nothing for your kid.

Taking kids away from a school that CAN provide access to what they need and putting them at a school that cannot support them is very inequitable. Yes indeed. That's why state law provides protections for ELL, special ed & HC students.
-Karen

Anonymous said...

Karen, do you have a teenager? With just one exception, HC students take the same classes as every other bright student in high school.

Here’s an appropriate course selection for a college bound non HC student:

English
Honors English 9 and 10
AP English 11 and 12

Math
Geometry 9
Algebra 2 10
Precalculus 11
AP Calc or AP Statistics 12

Social Studies
Honors World History 9
AP World History 10
AP US History 11
AP Government 12

Science
Biology 9
Chemistry 10
AP Chem, Bio, Physics or Enviro 11 and 12

World Language
WL 2 9
WL 3 10
AP WL 11

The only “extra” class an HC pathway school would have to offer is AP Calc BC and with 40 HCC students plus other advanced math students, two sections could be offered at WSHS.

spectrum parent

Anonymous said...

Kids can take AP tests without taking an AP class, right? I'm worried about my one non-HCC (Spectrum) kid who has to go to Hale but loves science and has taken all HCC middle school classes with no issues for 2 years so far (even ELA, which is not his strong suit). So, despite not being "HC" (unlike all of his siblings), it seems like he will "come in needing the same AP science trajectory". And so will all the other Spectrum kids at JAMS. Why would you think non-HCC kids would automatically not need the same AP classes? AP isn't designed for only the top 2%. Hale has no AP Bio, no AP Chem, no AP Physics. It's depressing. They should let (all) kids go to other high schools if their school doesn't have appropriate classes. Really they should offer comparable AP classes at all schools even if some of them will only have a few kids, but first they would have to actually adequately fund education. (Seems like Hale would have enough demand though. Strange.)

George

Anonymous said...

@George-even if Hale has demand, the students would run into a wall with the Principal who doesn't support altering her template. How have other JAMS spectrum kids managed at Hale? Maybe they can give advice and perspective??

Sorry

Anonymous said...

@Spectrum Parent-- Then why are you so down on WSHS for your spectrum student? Sounds like the school has more than enough offerings for your student. Is it because your student cannot organize their schedule so they can take all AP classes typical of what an HC schedules? Because I get the sense you have a grip against HC parents in your posts for advocating for a single pathway in the south end.

HC students come in accelerated two years in standards for SS and LA and some also in foreign language. Multiple AP courses and more than the typical student are appropriate and a "basic" education for an HC student. Therefore, they are at risk of running out of courses if they cannot make an AP schedule easily.
- Jane

Anonymous said...

@George-- If your non-HC student has been taking science accelerated two years as well as all the other HC classes (are you certain?), then I would argue the district needs to support their curriculum pathway. I don't think any student (including HC) should go to a school that cannot provide them with the appropriate course sequence & lots of AP. Otherwise your child would repeat courses. What does the principal of JAMS advise? I also absolutely agree with you. Although many people really love Hale and many students go on to great universities without lots of AP, I think the Hale model is left over from the choice era.
PT

Anonymous said...

Jane,

It doesn’t matter which standards HC students learn in middle school SS and ELA classes, every student at Garfield from general education to HC takes the same classes in those subjects in the 9th grade. Going to Garfield doesn’t provide access to any acceleration.

West Seattle HC students are only able to take the equivalent of one year of high school world language in middle school. These are the same courses available to every other student and therefore HC students have no need to access Garfield for appropriate instruction in this subject.

I don’t have a grip (sic) against HC parents, I am the parent of HC and Spectrum students. The attitudes displayed here are repulsive. Take a moment to consider how it sounds when you pronounce that WSHS can’t possibly meet your kid’s needs but mine will be fine.

Anonymous said...

it is advanced math and science that are the biggest problems for wshs and fhs. and with two ib programs in each areas this is madness. do an optional ibx. equity much? optional ibx works for the north. poorer kids can't get that same option.

oh and then having lhs bus to ghs. ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

@Spectrum parent 10:13PM-- Whether you like it or not the needs and program definition are different for spectrum and HC. Fight the state law, but programs for HC exist across the county. You have an uphill battle. I also do not believe you have an HC student FWIW, real time, spectrum parent.
Jane

Anonymous said...

Whether you like it or not the district has also defined a program pathway for HC. Whether you believe their needs are different or not is your own personal opinion. There are many parents not only in Seattle, but across the country as well as researchers in universities and the HCS advisory committee who differ. Programs exist because you are not an expert. Stop "trolling" a blog used as a resource for HC parents.
Jane

Anonymous said...

The fact is there are single subject gifted kids who do not qualify for HC service but receive service in their area of high capability at their local or option school. They finish 8th grade having completed geometry or Algebra II. So every student needs to have pre-calc thru AP Stat available at their high school.

Doctor Hu said...

"it is advanced math and science that are the biggest problems for wshs and fhs. and with two ib programs in each areas this is madness. do an optional ibx. equity much? optional ibx works for the north. poorer kids can't get that same option."

It is indeed a massive inequity between north and south that ALL HC students must travel to the northern border of the Seattle school district in order to avail of the sole Ingraham HC IB Option. Why should south end HC students not also have IB options at Rainier Beach and Chief Sealth International, where IB programs are already in place? Whether the issue is capacity at Garfield or bringing HC closer to home, after the success of the Ingraham IB option this easy reform -- adding Rainer Beach (also near to Franklin + Garfield) and Chief Sealth (also near to West Seattle) as HC IB options -- should obviously have been proposed ahead of any south end HC pathway split. The Seattle School Board should certainly correct this glaring inequity and should adopt a 3 + 3 Plan when they soon vote on new HC pathways (South Garfield/NW Ballard/NE Roosevelt HC Pathways + Rainier Beach/Chief Sealth/Ingraham HC IB Options).

Remarkably, the 2017-18 enrollment reports (Table 6C) show 18 south end choice students attending Ingraham from: 1 [!] Chief Sealth, 2 West Seattle, 2 [!] Rainier Beach, 4 Franklin, 9 Garfield (in addition to 359 out-of-AA north end students attending Ingraham from: 129 Ballard, 151 Roosevelt, 79 Nathan Hale, as well as 912 Ingraham AA students). The enrollment reports do not tell us how many of these out-of-AA students at Ingraham were IB-enrolled, nor how many were HC-enrolled, but it does seem safe to assume that at least some of these 18 south end students are HC enrolled students exercising their Ingraham HC IB option. The HCS AC chart also tells us that 1 Rainier Beach HC eligible but not enrolled student and 14 Chief Sealth HC eligible but not enrolled students were at their attendance area schools (perhaps as IB program students?).

What would be a principled argument against allowing HC enrolled south end students to attend the Rainier Beach or Chief Sealth IB programs? (Perhaps but not necessarily with an IBX option -- after all, we know from these threads that only about 1/3 of Ingraham HC students actually choose the IBX option over the regular IB).

Anonymous said...

There’s no point in designating RBHS and Sealth as HC IB options unless IBX is available. Any student can request a seat at these schools now and Rainier Beach has no waitlist.

Doctor Hu said...

So then why can't a south end HC eligible student choose Rainier Beach IB or Chief Sealth IB and still be HC enrolled? Why do they have to go to the Ingraham HC IB Option? Ingraham HC students don't actually need to choose IBX over IB and most don't. Again, what is the principled argument AGAINST allowing HC enrolled south end students to attend the Rainier Beach or Chief Sealth IB programs and designating those choices HC options too?

SusanH said...

Doctor Hu:

HC enrolled south end students are certainly allowed to attend the IB programs at Rainier Beach or Chief Sealth. No one is stopping them. In high school, there's really no HC designation in the classes you take, since anyone can take AP classes, and anyone can do the IB curriculum. So I guess you are referring to IBX offered at Ingram, which is the same exact curriculum, but offered starting in 10th instead of 11th. That would be the only "HC designation" in the IB pathway. But, as you pointed out, only 1/3 of students are opting for that acceleration. And the school seems to be discouraging it; it's a lot of work that takes considerable maturity.

Also, does the fact that a school officially offers "IB" mean they are really all the same? I don't know. Ingram has a long established program, with experienced teachers, and a parent body that comes up with the money to support it. Rainier Beach's is brand new (I think going on the 3rd year?), and I know they've had a lot of funding problems and the district has indicated that they won't pay to support it. It's really disappointing for the parents in the neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

I don't think all IB programs are the same although they are supposed to be. As always, it comes down to how well the school administers the program. Ingraham does a great job. Kudos to Guy Thomas for that. However, even at Ingraham there are sometimes individual IB teachers who have trouble covering all the material - generally due to inexperience with the program. I suspect it often takes at least a year before you can learn how to pace a class when teaching a new curricula. I will say in defense of those teachers, at least at Ingraham, that they are working hard to remedy any coverage issues. The problem with IB is that if the curriculum isn't fully covered then the students will be at a disadvantage on the high stakes IB exams. Those exams appear to me to be much more difficult than the state and federal exams designed to test basic high school knowledge in the US. This is also why I do not think it is a 'snap' to just add more IB classes (or AP for that matter) to handle changing capacity demands. I do not know how Rainier Beach is doing with their IB program. If their students are doing well and a reasonable percentage are completing the program then it would make sense to have HC students access it. From what I have seen of the IB curriculum - it looks great. Very college prep. Much like the material in freshman classes at many Universities - at least where I can judge. Thus, It would be interesting to hear how the IB program is going at these other schools. Note that I am just a parent with a student in IBX, so my opinions are based on casual observation from afar. I agree that starting and then de-funding these programs is one of the more (out of many) ham-fisted maneuvers of the district.

-RamParent

Benjamin Leis said...

I'm going to pop in for a quick moderator note. I realize that this comment stream has been heated at times. Honest debate sometimes goes that way. My general stance is that there are real people/families/students behind most of these comments with legitimate worries and concerns. At the same time, we're not all going to end at the same conclusions. Please bear that in mind, when responding to others. I'd ask everyone to not accuse others of trolling or any ad hominem attacks in general. If you have concerns about a comment please email me with the contact button on the front page.

Anonymous said...

SusanH asked, "does the fact that a school officially offers "IB" mean they are really all the same?"

The general expectation for HC students choosing IB is that they will pursue the IB diploma. A 2 year sequence of specific IB classes needs to be available, with a large enough cohort needing similar coursework in order for a student to get a workable schedule. Compare the number of students pursuing (and achieving) the IB diploma at IHS vs RBHS and CSHS.

IB is "supposed" to be the same curriculum, but how it is taught varies by teacher, even within a school, IHS included. For some classes, namely LA and SS, IB provides wide latitude in the readings and content focus (within a list of prescribed authors and topics), so classes can vary significantly content wise. Also, some teachers will amply prepare students for the demands and expectations of IB [you can just as easily substitute AP], and some won't. Several long time IB teachers have left IHS over the last year, so level of experience varies.

As far as "only 1/3 of students opting for that acceleration [IBX]," that is a shift that has been pushed hard by the school over the last 2 years. Yes, more HC students are now opting to follow the traditional IB pathway, after much cajoling. They are then blocked from taking any IB classes until junior year. They can take AP Calculus or AP Statistics, but that is about it for the advanced coursework until junior year. The science options are very limited and they only get 1/2 year of history in sophomore year. It's like they get decelerated for some subjects.

And those few choosing IBX? Without a large enough cohort on the same pathway, they are in a similar position as HC students in neighborhood schools. They are almost in a worse position, because the school is unlikely to offer appropriate coursework their senior year and they are likely to be pushed into Running Start.

A critical mass of students needing similar coursework on the same timeframe is what makes it possible to offer 4 full years of advanced coursework (without relying on Running Start), whether IB or AP.

Anonymous said...

@SusanH- "They can take AP Calculus or AP Statistics, but that is about it for the advanced coursework until junior year.The science options are very limited and they only get 1/2 year of history in sophomore year. It's like they get decelerated for some subjects."
Thank you so much for sharing this information.

Why do they only get 1/2 year history in 10th grade?

I am also wondering, can't an HC student pursuing regular IB (over IBX) still follow a two year accelerated math/science path and take Chemistry/Algebra II in 9th and Physics/Precalc or AP calc in 10th? I also would expect that an HC student at Ballard, Roosevelt, Garfield would be taking a similar 2 year accelerated science & math pathway in 9th and 10th, but instead of IB in 11th & 12th, they take AP courses in 11th and 12th. I also understand pathways vary somewhat based upon choice etc but would this not be a "typical" HC curriculum pathway?

The only difference I see is that at another AP focused school a student might get to access a couple of AP LA/SS/Foreign Language options in 10th? If so then 10th grade would be the only difference and I wonder if 10th graders are actually able to access AP courses at those schools due to capacity issues.

Is this what you mean as far as Ingraham having limited options for acceleration prior to 11th with regular IB?
-future Ingraham

Anonymous said...

As I understand it, taking AP Calc and/or AP Stats prior to 2 yrs of IB Math (SL and HL) would mean a lot of repetition. Do they let strong math students start IB math in 10th grade (not for IB credit), then take HL and IB Further Math as part of their IB 2-yr IB program? Or can you skip SL and take an AP math class in 10th, jumping to HL in 11th?

Re: the idea that students get decelerated, yes. Remember, HC students are often working 2+ years ahead in elementary school. They tend to learn faster, too. If allowed to go at their appropriate learning pace, many would be significantly more than 2 years ahead by the time the graduate. Instead, SPS does all it can to get everyone onto the same level come high school. "Honors for all" classes, elimination of AP world history access in 9th, pressure to not do IBX, etc. Lowering the ceiling--through policies, as well as through lack of curricular support to ensure advanced instruction and learning--is the SPS way.

sadly

Doctor Hu said...

"Also, does the fact that a school officially offers 'IB' mean they are really all the same? I don't know. Ingra[ha]m has a long established program, with experienced teachers, and a parent body that comes up with the money to support it. Rainier Beach's is brand new (I think going on the 3rd year?), and I know they've had a lot of funding problems and the district has indicated that they won't pay to support it. It's really disappointing for the parents in the neighborhood."

Thanks for your thoughts, SusanH.

That's exactly my point, but you stated it better than I ever could. Why doesn't the Seattle School District draw HC students to the Rainier Beach IB program through the HC IB program?

I do understand that HC eligible south end students are allowed to attend the IB programs at Rainier Beach or Chief Sealth. But weirdly, because those IB programs are not designated as a HC "Option" like Ingraham IB, south end students are no longer considered "HC enrolled" if they make that choice! Yet north (and south) end students are all considered "HC enrolled" regardless of whether they choose Ingraham IBX or Ingraham IB.

Yes to the posters who argue for adding an IBX option to Rainier Beach IB and Chief Sealth IB, which would be available to south end HC eligible students like the Ingraham IBX Option is already accessible to north end students. If Rainier Beach has empty seats, isn't supporting the school's IB program by designating it as a HC option a great way to draw students from overcrowded schools? That would really help the parents and students who are working hard to build their IB program. But even without IBX, is there any good reason why Rainier Beach IB and Chief Sealth International IB should not be designated as HC Options like Ingraham IB?

Anonymous said...

I believe the people attending schools in SE and SW Seattle would have to weigh in on the idea of the south end HCC being supported by HCC at Garfield plus IBX at Beach and Sealth. The success of those schools, services/programs depends on families deciding to support them and show up. It is inappropriate to pretend to know what is best for someone living in the Mt. Baker or Lincoln Park (or Highland Park) neighborhoods when you live in north Seattle.

I hope people are contacting their current and future board members and sharing their opinions. That “survey” seemed bogus, so people need to get involved and not be passive during this time of evaluation and change.

Fix AL

Anonymous said...

It's also important to know how the IB programs are performing. I remember there was an article in the Seattle Times a while back that not many non-IHS students were taking IB exams and doing well on them. If that's the case, is it a function of the quality of the classes, and/or the abilities/preparation of the students? How do IB exam scores compare to IHS non-HC students who take them?

Anonymous said...

@Doctor HSU-- The Ingraham IBX program lured north end parents away from Garfield very reluctantly years ago with the promise it would mirror a program on the Eastside. Traffic and transportation led to north end families choosing Ingraham over Garfield. Many also chose Ingraham in recent years over neighborhood schools due to it being labeled an HC pathway.

Now (very recently) 2/3 are taking IB, 1/3 IBX & the rest are scattered between Roosevelt & Ballard. There are also many more HC students in the north end and Ingraham also hosts a special info session for private school families etc. So they also draw from that population as well. The school is making a really intentional effort to appeal to those families.

I am not sure at this point if they suddenly made RB or Sealth an IBX pathway if that would
really redirect enough students away from Garfield to those schools. IBX is not even a reality at Ingraham and there is pushback for having a program like IBX that segregates HC students at the high school level (from Garfield teachers and others) in the district. Read the Truax essay posted in the Times. There is also much less of an HC population to begin with in the south end. Would traffic to get to Garfield make people choose RB instead? They could try to appeal to private school families in the south end like Ingraham.
-PR

Anonymous said...

@Sadly "Remember, HC students are often working 2+ years ahead in elementary school. They tend to learn faster, too. If allowed to go at their appropriate learning pace, many would be significantly more than 2 years ahead by the time the graduate. Instead, SPS does all it can to get everyone onto the same level come high school"

In addition, to two years accelerated curriculum, at the middle school level my student's science teachers also significantly altered high school level content to adapt toward gifted learners. Math has been two years accelerated. LA & SS teachers did the same but curriculum material is grade level and standards accelerated. Some teachers have done this more effectively than others, but it has been very apparent that at least some of her LA/SS classes have been high school level. Assigned readings, analysis assignments etc are definitely high school level.

In high school theoretically (except IBX) there is no cohort program, just pathways. So the high school options would likely look different. It seems to me (but mine is not yet high school) that there are a variety of options for acceleration including single subject AP options open to everyone which is great. I understand the need for a majority of accelerated courses for HC and the ability for them to create a schedule. Although not perfect at least there is access to the UW program for those who are true outliers. If a student runs out of classes to take, they can also take an online course or perhaps do running start. Its not ideal, but we have a very large district that is very challenged to serve a diversity of students with very little budget.
-HD

Anonymous said...

At this point, pushing for another IBX pathway is folly. IBX has been redefined since its inception (now "IBX Option?"), and has gotten little support from the district. It served its purpose of providing a short term capacity solution, but building and maintaining the program to serve the academic needs of HC students does not seem like a district priority. Parents were sold on a program modeled after Bellevue's, with a pathway that included senior year coursework at IHS. It now means little more than accessing the IB diploma program a year early, with Running Start or early graduation as the most likely means of accessing appropriate coursework after completion of the IB diploma. Since they are encouraging students to not pursue the IBX pathway, there is unlikely to be a large enough cohort to offer appropriate coursework to the small number of post-IB students.

It bears repeating: "A critical mass of students needing similar coursework on the same timeframe is what makes it possible to offer 4 full years of advanced coursework (without relying on Running Start), whether IB or AP."

I'm not sure how other IB schools operate, but IHS students cannot access IB courses as sophomores unless they are on the IBX pathway, which means pursuing the IB diploma starting sophomore year, not just certificating in a few classes.

Anonymous said...

HD suggested, "Although not perfect at least there is access to the UW program for those who are true outliers. If a student runs out of classes to take, they can also take an online course or perhaps do running start."

- IB and AP coursework/exams can get a student college credit; an online course may not. (and, really, online coursework is simply not the same as a hands-on, in person class with a teacher and peers). Families also need to pay for courses out of pocket, which can be much more than the cost of an IB or AP exam.
- The UW program serves a very, very small number of students. There are outliers, and then there are outliers among the outliers...and even if the program was a good fit, the chance of getting into the program is small.
- Fitting a single Running Start course into a part-time school schedule is not always possible. Want to take physics? The course may meet from 8-9 one day and 8-11 another (labs) - how do you fit in your 5 other classes at school? You also need to enroll RS classes well in advance of knowing your high school schedule.

Anonymous said...

"Assigned readings, analysis assignments etc are definitely high school level."

Parents at the SSS blog recently weighed in that writing was one grade level ahead, at most. If correct, the writing levels and expectations are not at a high school level, which would mean that the assignments, if in writing, are not at high school expectations.

The distinction between reading and writing levels is a very important one. Since writing is an act of thinking, it is important to bear in mind when considering the "two years ahead" mantra.

perspective

Anonymous said...

The classes vary by school. At some it may well be high school expectations in middle school. I wish it was at ours.

Anonymous said...

Regarding middle school, I get the sense it varies depending upon teachers, not just school. My child (HIMS) had a fantastic science teacher who infused curriculum that was two years ahead to also be geared toward gifted learners. All the LA/SS teacher mentioned accelerating standards, and some mentioned specifically gearing toward gifted learners. Some less effective teachers have come and gone.
HD

Anonymous said...

@HD,

It sounds like you're essentially saying "HCC students are a couple years ahead in elementary and middle school, but it's ok if we don't have enough AP options for them in high school because they can always enter the UW program or take online classes or do Running Start." Really? Is that how we provide the state-mandated services for HC students? There's a big gap between what you call "not ideal" and I call educational malpractice. Public funds should provide for adequate pathways for all students--meaning the opportunity to take four years worth of sequential and/or complementary courses. Not mandatory steps backward or class repeats or schedule holes due to inability to provide appropriate courses. Four years of appropriately leveled courses is basic, not ideal. Suggesting that we can't afford to educate this sizable group of students is inequitable.

all types

Anonymous said...

The UW programs are SO not the answer. Here's my quick list of reasons, but I'm sure there are plenty more.

- They are hard to get into.
- They are a huge commitment.
- Many students don't want to give up their last 2 years of HS to enter college early (or ALL of high school, if they go the Transition School route).
- They can be a social challenge given the age difference.
- Schedules might not work for families, since UW is on a different calendar than SPS. Daily class schedules are erratic, too.
- They are expensive. Families pay. For college. Earlier than planned.
- Entering college early can limit your merit scholarship opportunities, since many are for graduating high school seniors.
- The decision to enter UW early means you may be giving up the opportunity to apply to some of your dream schools instead. It's a big trade-off.

The UW programs are great, and can be a viable solution for some HC students. But not many. And by no means should should "the UW option" be considered to be part of the district's "solution" to serving HC students. We need solutions that work for many, not just a few.

UW mom

Anonymous said...

@All types-- No I did not say that at all. Go back and re-read my post. I said this " I understand the need for a majority of accelerated courses for HC and the ability for them to create a schedule." I agree with you.

Regarding the online courses and UW, I was thinking more along the lines of our overcrowding situation in multiple high schools affecting all the kids right now. In addition, I was unaware the UW college program was so inaccessible until a poster (10:10AM Nov 28th) shared that information. I am also very aware these options are not for all kids. I was just thinking aloud about a variety of options in a university town such as Seattle versus a smaller town.
HD

Anonymous said...

@UW Mom-- Thanks for sharing that info. I don't think anyone believes the UW program to be a "solution" to providing services for HC in high school, just one additional avenue and it sounds like only for few. I think it is more likely the district would propose running start at a community college to fill gaps for HC which I don't feel should be the solution either. They need to fix the capacity issues and offer solid AP offerings.
-HD

Anonymous said...

Can anyone speak to the "honors" courses for 9th and 10th at Ingraham for HC?
I have heard rumor that the science courses "could hardly be called honors". What about LA/SS?
There seems to be inconsistency in this district as "regular" science courses such as Chemistry over at BHS are very rigorous. Perhaps it also depends upon the teacher.
Future Ingraham

Anonymous said...

Very teacher dependent, for all classes.

Doctor Hu said...

What an informative discussion, thanks for all these details on both AP and IB offerings at different schools.

Despite all the school variations in both curriculums, I still don't get why SPS should say to any HC eligible high school student (at least for purposes of its annual enrollment reports): "If you get yourself to Ingraham IB (waitlisted) you will still be enrolled in the HC cohort, but if you go to Rainier Beach IB or Chief Sealth IB you will no longer be HC enrolled." South end parents and students should absolutely decide what is best for themselves, so why then aren't they given that option? Instead, every HC IB student is steered towards waitlisted Ingraham on the northern edge of the school district -- a policy that supports neither south end IB schools nor nearby HC students.

The HCS AC numbers show 41 HC enrolled students at Garfield or Ingraham IB from the Rainier Beach attendance area, as well as 1 HC eligible but not HC enrolled student attending Rainier Beach -- perhaps its IB program? And from the 2016-17 enrollment report, we also know that 2 Rainier Beach attendance area choice students travelled the entire length of the school district to Ingraham -- perhaps to attend its HC IB program? Remarkable.

Notably, for accessible public school transportation Rainier Beach is one of a couple of high schools to benefit from a link light rail station within walking distance (another will soon be Roosevelt, while Garfield and Franklin are just a long walk or short bus transfer from the Mount Baker station, as will be Lincoln from the Brooklyn station barring cross-town traffic).

Anonymous said...

@ Doctor HU " See the Nov 28th post 9:33AM. The only reason Ingraham has an HC option is due to IBX. It is not due to IB. I just don't think the south end would have the numbers of students to support an IBX program. In addition, there is not the same traffic issues that would incline students to choose Rainier Beach over Garfield.To understand why there is IBX at Ingraham, you need to look at how the north end program evolved. Now IBX is not as attractive due to broken promises etc, and more families are choosing BHS and Roosevelt as those schools are serving HC. But there still is enough mass in the north end for HC to be at all 3 locations.

"It bears repeating: "A critical mass of students needing similar coursework on the same timeframe is what makes it possible to offer 4 full years of advanced coursework (without relying on Running Start), whether IB or AP."
-June

Anonymous said...

@Doctor Hu-- Without a large enough mass of HC students how could you have an HC designation at a school. That school would not be able to serve the HC student. In addition, it does not mean much to anyone. All people truly care about is not the designation, it is the assurance of the ability to access 4 years of advanced coursework.
-June

SusanH said...

@Doctor Hu: is there a benefit to being officially "HC enrolled"? I was curious about that from your comment many days ago. In high school it doesn't make any difference as far as course selection, or who is in your classes. Do colleges perhaps care about that? Is there some benefit in college applications to being designated HC at the high school level?

Thanks for clarifying!

Anonymous said...

There is no benefit to the highly capable label at the high school level unless it provides your child with access to a high achieving peer group. Designating RBHS as an HC site would not do that.

Staff is not backing down from their plan for five HC pathways in 2019-20. http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/17-18%20agendas/20171129/20171129_Agenda_Packet.pdf

Spectrum parent
not a troll, not FWIW, just someone who disagrees with Jane

SusanH said...

OK, Spectrum parent, that's what I think as well.
But I was asking Doctor Hu. I really want to hear his opinion.

SusanH said...

Or her opinion! :)

Anonymous said...

The linked document compares only AP math/science at the proposed pathway schools. What about AP Computer Science (considered a math) and other AP offerings?? Which AP Physics (Calc based or algebra based)? What about AP Economics, AP Psychology, AP Gov, etc.? Wow, the analysis is so limited.

More interesting is the discussion about needing to have designated pathways and the IBX program, not just AP and IB offerings, in order to be compliant. Yet....IBX is what? Is it really a program?

Anonymous said...

FWIW here.

Doctor Hu seems very naive. Just because parents were willing to bolt HCC-designated schools for Ballard and Roosevelt ignores the obvious: demographics.

HCC "peers" didn't so much matter at Roosevelt and Ballard.

Demographic peers matter. Right, people?

@Susan: Why do you "need" Dr. Hu to state the obvious?

Oh, and let's not forget...US News and World Report rankings also matter to this readership.

FWIW



Fwinw said...

Ah demographic peers are not cohorts. Because one is well supported by educational research and the other is the fabrication of your own design.


Lie lie lie lie until my class was taken away.

Anonymous said...

@FWIW- Reason: increased traffic, elimination of buses, the introduction of neighborhood schools and new SAP plan. Neighborhood schools with enough neighborhood spectrum and gen ed population driving enough AP courses, so they could continue curriculum pathway. People have always preferred for their kids to stay in their neighborhood school as long as the school could serve their kid. Many HC stay in their neighborhood elementary schools.
parent

Anonymous said...

FWIW's posts are ad hominem attacks on people without any apparent intention of a productive conversation.

She posted insulting comments both here and on SSS from midnight until after 4am.

Really Odd

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting the link to the document Nov 29th 9:52Pm- I know you don't agree HC need anything different, but there it is in writing. Looks like they are very well aware that HC students (regardless of HC designation) have not been provided "equitable access" in violation of 0030 due to travel "distance" from Garfield. They are trying to rectify the situation by providing more pathways. If they DO end up with 5 pathways as proposed, it will have to mean they cannot just send students to all 5 current schools with the current situation. I don't think anyone is against that idea if they can do it. But some are very concerned they will not have equal offerings due to differences in enrollment and student demand. They will need to provide more AP courses and make sure their is equitable access at all locations.
HC parent

Anonymous said...

HC parents from the linked document:

"State Law and Compliance: As the District investigates options to serve students identified as highly capable, we must take into account the compliance challenges that could potentially occur. State law for highly capable requires a “continuum of services”… for students…“from K-12”. An argument could easily be made that Seattle Public Schools (SPS) is out of compliance if there was not an International Baccalaureate Accelerated (IBX) program and we ended the existing pathway to Garfield High School. OSPI made it clear that only offering International Baccalaureate (IB) and Advanced Placement (AP) courses does not fulfill that requirement. Any solution created needs to provide a HC pathway designation and continuum of service to ensure compliance."
HC parent