Thursday, February 1, 2018

February '18 Open Thread

I'm very relieved after last night's board meeting.  The recap for everyone who didn't tune in is:

  • The last boundary map F4.3 was adopted. 
  • Lincoln will serve as the north end HCC pathway and the Language Immersion pathway.
  • Most of the big boundary adjustments are in the Lincoln area. The side effects around the rest of the map were minimized versus some of the earlier iterations.
  • Re:grandfathering:  students who choose the pathway high school next year are to be grandfathered, current W. Seattle students at Washington are also to be grandfathered at Garfield. 
  • The resolution passed asking the staff to report back on improving identification and increasing advanced learning in every high school next year. Based on that work, the board may revisit the need for a pathway. So basically, the arguments will continue next year but hopefully with better supporting data.

So hopefully, everyone has enough information to make an informed choice for next year.  Open enrollment will start on February 5th. District Link

Things I'm tracking
  • NGSS Science Standards
  • The new superintendent search
  • Lincoln H.S. rollout.
  • Bus Strike

The February meeting of the Highly Capable Services Advisory Committee will take place tomorrow - Tuesday, February 6,:30 - 8:00 PM - at the John Stanford Center for Education Excellence, Room 2776.

A code for the elevator/door code is available at the security window in the Lobby.

The agenda will include:

- Recap on High School Boundary changes
- Updates from new schools: Madison, Robert Eagle Staff and Decatur
- Update from Advanced Learning on the eligibility process
- Continued work on the Program Review Tool


Future meetings will take place:
March 6, Robert Eagle Staff Middle School, Library
April 3, JSCEE, Room 2700
May 1, JSCEE, Room 2700
June 5, Madison Middle School, Library


What's on your minds?

114 comments:

Anonymous said...

Did they vote to dissolve HCC pathway in high school in 2021? Or revisit later?

Wondering

Anonymous said...

The school board voted to approve the "substitute" resolution. This resolution requires staff, the board, and the community work together to more fully develop potential alternatives so that the board can revisit and make a more informed decision. But until decided otherwise, Lincoln will be the north end pathway.

Anonymous said...

So, alternatives to increasing access to opportunity for advanced learning. I would say adding classes rather than a handful of bright kids could be a place to start, since it should be about access to coursework and not access to HC students. Further, I heard loud and clear that these classes need to be added in middle school to prep students for rigor in high school. Seems like an obvious course of action that is needed, not sure why it was so hard to get to this approved plan. Very disappointed in Geary and DeWolf for their approach and tone and what seems like a personal vendetta.

Looking forward to seeing a real plan with dollars and human capital attached to it...humans that are not kids.

Another NW said...

There were a few amendments passed that made some minor changes to that map, adding "Area B" and another area of Loyal Heights AA back into Ballard. I'm sure a new map will be available soon but just a heads up that there were a few changes.
Area B: https://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Growth%20Boundaries/2019%20High%20School%20Boundary%20Changes/Attachment_G_Lincoln_ScenarioFv4_3_Reference_Areas.pdf

Also, for those of you in Area C - part of the grandfathering plan that passed was grandfathering 2019 10th graders in change areas for schools other than Lincoln. This area's 9th graders next year could start at Roosevelt and remain there.

Anonymous said...

I'm hoping to get an answer to a question I've submitted on another thread prior to last night's vote. Was there any information provided at that meeting that might help us understand this scenario:

We live on Queen Anne.
We currently have a freshman at Ballard and an eighth grader in the HCC program at Hamilton.
If our eighth grader selects Ballard next year, will he be permitted to remain at Ballard as a sibling rather than be moved to Lincoln in 2019-20?

If there is no clear answer, is there an individual I can contact who can give us some direction?

Thank you very much,
qamom

Benjamin Leis said...

I will keep a look out for any newer maps and update when they are published. In general, I try my best to keep everything accurate but please use the official district address tools if you're uncertain about which reference area you fall into. The maps in particular are not super detailed and can be ambiguous around the edges.

Secondly, I welcome any additional information if I'm mistaken but the official documents are very clear that if you go to Roosevelt or Ballard next year and are in the Lincoln zone you will be geo-split with your neighbors. @qamom: There is no provision for sibling preferences.

In fact the language of amendment 5 encourages other 10th grade HC students to opt into Lincoln when it opens. So at least from the board perspective, I'd interpret that as tacit signalling that they want to serve HC 10th graders at Lincoln.


From the BAR:

High School Grandfathering Plan
Staying in Current Assignments: When the new boundaries and pathways take effect in 2019-20:
• All students in the Highly Capable (HC) pathways at Garfield and Ingraham will be
grandfathered.
• All 11th and 12th graders in fall 2019 will be grandfathered.
• All 10th graders in areas that have a changing attendance area assignment, but not to Lincoln High School, will be grandfathered at their existing assignment.

Changing Assignments: When the new boundaries and pathways take effect in 2019-20:
• All 10th graders attending Ballard or Roosevelt in 2018-19 as their attendance area school and residing in areas that have a changing assignment to Lincoln High School in the fall of 2019 will be geo-split, meaning they would start 10th grade at Lincoln High School.

Incoming 9th Grader Assignments: When the new boundaries and pathways take effect in 2019-20:
• All 9th graders in fall of 2019 will be assigned to their attendance area high school based on the approved 2019-20 boundaries.
• Students in HC entering 9th grade may opt into their HC pathway school.
• Any student may apply to another high school through school choice. Seats are based on space available.

https://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=32846293

Anonymous said...



What is up with the HCS AC. Seriously nothing burger here. Perhaps they knew that things were going to be sorted out (that the Board was going to kill the DeWolf and Geary amendment) but their silence has been deafening. In addition, the full onslaught by Kari Hanson and Wyeth Jesse on HCS is still in place. Their deceit on this matter is bordering on malpractice. How much do we pay them to hide information from the Board and to the public? Finally, Michael Tolley is still chipping away at HCC just like he killed spectrum one school at a time. HCC has three years and without a real Superintendent, who follows best practices, and not renta-cop Nyland we will be recreating the wheel.

GLP said...

qamom - My reading of this is the same as Benjamin's. Your 8th grader would be geo-split to Lincoln in 10th grade. However, you if you tried to opt him in to Ballard via open enrollment, you would have the sibling tiebreaker in your favor (not a guarantee, but it would move him up in line for any available seats).

-GLP

Anonymous said...

Is there some way to find official confirmation of which amendments/etc. were passed? I know this might be a naive question, but everyone here who follows along has been so helpful.

I'm wondering specifically about amendment 5 (which Benjamin references above, so I'm thinking it passed?). The relevant piece for me is the suggestion that 10th graders in fall 2019 who are identified HCC could opt in to Lincoln.

If a child is identified as HC as a rising 9th grader (i.e. is not enrolled in the HCC cohort in the 8th grade) and, either does not get an assignment to Ingraham, or doesn't opt for one, and is in a NE HS, do they retain their HC status? Or do they have to go through the testing process again in the fall?

spinning

Anonymous said...

"Very disappointed in Geary and DeWolf for their approach and tone and what seems like a personal vendetta." However Geary after voting against the substitute, did vote (after a big pause) to support adopt it, after her & DeWolf's amendment 1 was voted down. DeWolf was the only one who did not. I thought he lacked an understanding of depth other complex issues that intersect like capacity.The Geary, Patu & Pinkam substitute actually takes steps to address inequity.

In addition, DeWolf repeatedly ignores communities, students & parents concerns, instead making a comment about "who is not the room". We have all seen communities of color testify, native americans and others when they feel impacted.

The fact that he does not see the diversity in the room beyond race is also problem. I don't appreciate him lumping all people in the room together. To assume we all share a common background and privileges is wrong and racist.

There was a woman who testified her parents were immigrants, cafeteria workers, etc. There are many of us, white, Asian, East Indian included who are first generation college students. Some are not professionals or affluent and are middle or working class. He assumes we all live in mansions I think! What happened to socioeconomics and other diversity in these discussions? He needs to go back to college and open his mind, as all he can see is race & he also picks and chooses which races upon which to focus ignoring Asians, East Indian speakers etc.
HK


suep. said...

@ HK,
Quick correction: the alternative resolution that authentically addressed issues of equity in advanced learning was authored/sponsored by Directors Mack, Pinkham and Patu (not Geary).

Directors Geary and DeWolf authored/sponsored the original resolution that would have eliminated all HC pathways by 2021.

DeWolf's amendment 1, which also did not pass, was so sweeping it would have eliminated ALL pathways throughout the district, which could have been interpreted to include language immersion, possibly STEM at Cleveland, CTE options, and all option school pathways. Thankfully it didn't pass.

Anonymous said...

As the parent of an HC-enrolled WMS student living in SE, I am grateful to Directors Mack, Pinkham, and particularly Director Patu, for looking out for all students, looking beyond buzzwords, and bringing some sense and good governance to this decision-making process.

I'm not ready to write DeWolf off entirely; he's learning. But gosh - not impressive so far.

Ruthie

Helen said...

Director DeWolf deserves credit for kindly remembering the small group of kids at Loyal Heights who wanted to go to Ballard with their classmates. He wrote a last minute amendment during the meeting to address this, and it passed. If he hadn't, these kids and their testimony would have been completely forgotten. I think his youth is an asset as well since he seems to have a good connection with students and has a younger perspective which comes across as refreshing. It's good to see some idealism on the board.

Helen

Anonymous said...

@qamom:

Based on the final outcome, it appears your current 8th grader will be treated differently from a grandfathering perspective if they attend their attendance area school (Ballard) versus an HC pathway school.

In other words, current 8th grade HC students in pathways will receive preferential grandfathering over other students. I understand this is because SPS staff promised this to HC students/families before the board had the opportunity to vote. Had they not done this, current 8th grade HC students in other pathways would have also been geo-split to Lincoln just like everyone else in its new attendance area.

FTF

Anonymous said...

@suep "Quick correction: the alternative resolution that authentically addressed issues of equity in advanced learning was authored/sponsored by Directors Mack, Pinkham and Patu (not Geary)."

Yes, thanks sorry typo. The substitute resolution sponsored by Mack Patu & Pinkham. Yes and
a huge thank you to director Mack. She is a rock star IMO that brought people together to clearly address the complex issues. Kuddos to Mack. Geary & DeWolf should have withdrawn their amendment 1. The substitute resolution was better thought out.
Thx
HK

Anonymous said...

We live in Area B - so that is Ballard, not Lincoln now?

GLP said...

Yes, the Board approve the Amendment to keep Area B assigned to Ballard.

-GLP

Doctor Hu said...

Benjamin, for perfect clarity before current 8th grade families make choices during open enrollment over the next couple of weeks, can you please add a new bullet point to your main post describing Amendment 5 for this thread? After:

"Re: grandfathering: students who choose the pathway high school next year are to be grandfathered, current W. Seattle students at Washington are also to be grandfathered at Garfield."

Please add something like this:

"Ballard and Roosevelt students do not choose the pathway high school next year and whose attendance area changes to Lincoln will not be grandfathered at Ballard or Roosevelt, they will be geosplit to the new Lincoln pathway as 10th graders in 2019-20.
Re: opting-in to HC pathways: Ballard, Ingraham, Nathan Hale and Roosevelt HC students who choose the Garfield pathway high school next year can opt-in to the new Lincoln pathway as 10th graders in 2019-20; HC eligible students from those four north end schools who do not choose the Garfield pathway high school next year (e.g., 9th grade at attendance area school instead) can also opt-in to the new Lincoln pathway as 10th graders in 2019-20. Any student designated as HC eligible, regardless of whether they attend an HCC pathway school in 8th grade, may enter their designated high school HC pathway in 2019-20."

Doctor Hu said...

That should be: "Ballard and Roosevelt students *who* do not choose the pathway high school next year and whose . . . ."

Ingraham IBX Student said...

(Also posted this on the Open Enrollment thread). For anyone with questions about Ingraham and IB, I highly encourage you to attend either the Ingraham Open House (Tuesday the 6th at 7 PM) or the Ingraham school day tour (Thursday the 8th starting at 8:55 AM). There will be many people there (including myself) ready and willing to answer questions!

Louisa said...

Another NW (or anyone else who would take pity on me),
Could you clarify what you mean about Area C? My neighbors are concerned about the pathway for kids in our small corner of Green Lake, and I've gotten all turned around on which way is up or down. Is the basic summary: Area C gen ed students to Ingraham, but HCC students to Lincoln?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Doctor Hsu-- I agree this needs to be spelled out prior to open enrollment. I would hope something clear is emailed to 8th grade HCC families from the district. It will be very confusing to many people who have to get caught up and then understand all the ramifications.
CL

Anonymous said...

P.S Also, since there will not be a Garfield geosplit, and likely many/most will remain grandfathered at Garfield, Ingraham or remain in neighborhood schools BHS, RHS if their neighborhood school does not change etc, I am wondering how many 10th grade HC kids will actually be there in 2019. I predict few? Relying on an "opt in" for this group in my opinion is problematic.
CL

Doctor Hu said...

"Is the basic summary: Area C gen ed students to Ingraham, but HCC students to Lincoln?",

Louisa, exactly, with the added reminder that HCC students can also enroll in the Lincoln IB/IBX optional HC pathway; for all north end HC, including Area C students near Green Lake, Lincoln is the new Garfield.

Doctor Hu said...

"Also, since there will not be a Garfield geosplit, and likely many/most will remain grandfathered at Garfield, Ingraham or remain in neighborhood schools BHS, RHS if their neighborhood school does not change etc, I am wondering how many 10th grade HC kids will actually be there in 2019. I predict few? Relying on an "opt in" for this group in my opinion is problematic."

CL, funny you should ask about the likely "capture rate" for the new Lincoln HC pathway, after responding to a question on this from kellie, I'm now in the process of working out those crucial new HC numbers now and will post them when done.

Note that the opt-in to Lincoln HC language has AREADY been spelled out prior to open enrollment in the student assignment plan with its amendments and the Mack/Patu/Pinkham substitute resolution that passed Wednesday. As you say, depending on their Seattle address, it is VERY important that before listing open enrollment preferences, impacted families read and understand these fairly intricate new rules on HC pathways, options and grandfathering. In another post, I'll extract and show all that relevant new language.

Benjamin Leis said...

Admin note: I just found a set of comments stuck in the spam filter which I unblocked. If something doesnt post please email me using the contact us link on the main page.

Anonymous said...

Regarding this quote:

“There was a woman who testified her parents were immigrants, cafeteria workers, etc.”

My son ceded his time to this woman. She lives in a different part of the city than we do and has a different background.

The issue she spoke about mattered far more to her than it did to us, which is why, in the end, it mattered to us that she be heard.

Director DeWolf should seek to disconfirm his biases.

JW

Doctor Hu said...

2019-20 High School Growth Boundaries Plan and High School Highly Capable Pathways, Attachment K, Amendment 5:

"HIGH SCHOOL HIGH[LY] CAPABLE PATHWAYS

"Beginning in the 2019-20 school year, there will be three Highly Capable (HC) pathways for students entering 9th grade. The IBX program at Ingraham is an optional pathway. Any student designated as HC eligible, regardless of whether they attend an HCC pathway school in 8th grade, may enter their designated HC pathway. Students in an HC pathway high school in 2018-19 will be grandfathered in their current pathway school.

"HC PATHWAY SCHOOL ATTENDANCE AREA HIGH SCHOOLS
Lincoln High School: Ballard, Ingraham, Lincoln, Nathan Hale, and Roosevelt
Garfield High School: Franklin, Garfield, and Rainier Beach
West Seattle: West Seattle and Chief Sealth

"To ensure that Lincoln opens with robust enrollment and relieves capacity pressure at nearby schools, rising 9th and 10th grade students who are HC-enrolled or HC-eligible and who live in the Ballard, Ingraham, Nathan Hale and Roosevelt attendance areas will have an option to choose Lincoln in 2019-20. (Students in the Lincoln attendance area will already have this option via their attendance area assignment.)"


2019-20 High School Growth Boundaries Plan and High School Highly Capable Pathways, Attachment N, Amendment 5:
LINCOLN GRADE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN AND HIGH SCHOOL GRANDFATHERING PLAN

"The recommendation is to open Lincoln High School with grades 9 and 10 only in the 2019-20 school year. The information below outlines the grades to be served at Lincoln until the school reaches full scale in 2021-22. This attachment also outlines the grandfathering plan associated with the boundary changes to be implemented in the 2019-20 school year.

"Lincoln Grade Implementation Plan

"In 2019-20, Lincoln High School will serve students in grades 9 and 10 only. New students in grades 11 and 12 will be assigned to their attendance area high school based on the 2017-18 high school boundaries. In 2020-21, Lincoln High School will serve students in grades 9, 10, and 11 only. New students in grade 12 will be assigned to their attendance area high school based on the 2017-18 high school boundaries. In 2021-22, Lincoln High School will serve students in all grades.

"High School Grandfathering Plan

"Staying in Current Assignments: When the new boundaries and pathways take effect in 2019-20:

"All students in the Highly Capable (HC) pathways at Garfield and Ingraham will be grandfathered. All 11th and 12th graders in fall 2019 will be grandfathered. All 10th graders in areas that have a changing attendance area assignment, but not to Lincoln High School, will be grandfathered at their existing assignment.

"Changing Assignments: When the new boundaries and pathways take effect in 2019-20:

"All 10th graders attending Ballard or Roosevelt in 2018-19 as their attendance area school and residing in areas that have a changing assignment to Lincoln High School in the fall of 2019 will be geo-split, meaning they would start 10th grade at Lincoln High School.

"Incoming 9th Grader Assignments: When the new boundaries and pathways take effect in 2019-20:

"All 9th graders in fall of 2019 will be assigned to their attendance area high school based on the approved 2019-20 boundaries. Students in HC entering 9th grade may opt into their HC pathway school. Any student may apply to another high school through school choice. Seats are based on space available.

"Optional Highly Capable Assignments

"To ensure that Lincoln opens with robust enrollment and relieves capacity pressure at nearby schools, rising 9th and 10th grade students who are HC-enrolled or HC-eligible and who live in the Ballard, Ingraham, Nathan Hale and Roosevelt attendance areas will have an option to choose Lincoln in 2019-20. (Students in the Lincoln attendance area will already have this option via their attendance area assignment.)"

Doctor Hu said...

P.S. From the School Board Action Report (BAR) for Amendment 5:

"This amendment concerns students who are enrolled in a highly capable (HC) pathway school, or who are HC-eligible but not enrolled in an HC pathway school.

"This amendment accomplishes two things. First, it provides rising 9th and 10th grade highly capable students, whether HC-enrolled or not, who live in the new Lincoln pathway areas the option to attend Lincoln in 2019-20. Second, it allows rising 9th graders across the city who are HC-eligible to attend their new pathway school in 2019-20, even if they did not attend an HCC pathway school in 8th grade. (Currently, student assignment procedures only provide a default assignment to a 9th grade HC assignment to students who are in an HCC pathway school in 8th grade.)"

Louisa said...

Thanks, Doctor Hu

Anonymous said...

So an HC-eligible student who chooses Roosevelt next year for 9th and lives in the Lincoln area WILL be moved for 10th, correct? Even if very few other HC 10th graders end up at Lincoln? Parents and students, it's probably time to start seriously advocating for advanced classes!

Anonymous said...

If you're risk averse and in that situation I would go for either Garfield or Ingraham. The latter seems more likely than this year since there are supposedly more seats available.

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering how Lincoln will serve 9th grade and 10th grade HCC students that first year when there is no 11th and 12th grade. If a student's level is at 11th grade Language Arts, Math etc, will there be classes to support them?

Anonymous said...

They’ll have to provide every student with appropriate math classes but they’ll be in grade level English classes. That’s what happens in every high school - including Garfield and Ingraham

Fairmount Parent

Anonymous said...

HC or not, language arts and social studies are by grade level in high school, not 2yrs accelerated. Math is not part of HCC even in middle school, so there will be non-HCC students who may also need high level math. Science is the only class that is theoretically 2 years accelerated in HCC middle school, but with the change in the HS science sequence effective "this" year (though not fully implemented yet), it's hard to say exactly what Lincoln will need.

Best guess is that incoming 9th grade HCC students in 2019 will have taken Bio A/B in 8th and they are hopefully taking the ChemA/PhysA mashup class this year as 8th graders. That means they'd need the ChemB/Physics B class in 9th. GE 10th graders would mostly be doing BioA/B that year under the new plan, but since they will be coming from RHS and BHS there are likely to be kids with a variety of science already done, so they might need to offer they mashup "B" class already.

Incoming HC 10th graders will have an even larger range of science backgrounds since they may have been on the old HCC science sequence or on a random science pathway from BHS, RHS or Hale. Some will be geosplit to Lincoln, others may opt in. The district science dept is already working with each school to determine unique transitionalbpargways based on their students' histories, so I would expect they'll have to do the same--on steroids--for Lincoln for a few years. That's part of the cost of starting a new school, doing a roll up, including an HCC pathway, and implementing huge changes in the science sequence. SPS needs to just suck it up on that one.

Anonymous said...

I have a general question about how people in N are making their decisions -- in particular, how is the Garfield commute managed? It seems ominous to outsiders, but presumably those with experience with the program have learned to do the commute?

Benjamin Leis said...

I added the info on tomorrow's meeting of the HC Advisory Committee to the top

Anonymous said...

We are both HCC and Language Immersion, next year if we go to Ingraham, which is now the LI pathway, will we have to switch to Lincoln in 10th grade? If Lincoln becomes the new International/LI school, is Ingraham going to stop offering IB and LI classes?

Anonymous said...

If you go to Ingraham on the LI pathway next year, you can stay at Ingraham when Lincoln opens Or choose to go to Lincoln. The LI program and IB are not tied together, so LI moving to Lincoln will not affect the IB program at Ingraham.
-NSea Parent

Anonymous said...

While LI and IB may not be tied together, they are able to offer higher level IB world language classes perhaps in part because they are a LI pathway. There will be some shuffling of teachers with the opening of Lincoln, so I wouldn't assume IHS won't be impacted.

Anonymous said...

Benjamin, I think at one point you posted a link to the written statement somewhere that you can choose your neighborhood or pathway school through 5/31. Any idea where I can find that? Thank you!!!

Anonymous said...

We know quite a few BHS reference HCC heading to BHS!

TechyMom said...

Does anyone have experience getting credit for a Summer Stretch class for an incoming freshman at Garfield? I'm not sure where to start. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Kiddo did a shadow at BHS & IHS. Here is perception.

At IHS perception was that there was more of a divide within the "honors" classes between HC and other kids. HC kids seemed bored in some classes. Feedback from other HC kids was that there is little homework and rigor until IB. Then IB is really hard with lots of homework.

BHS perception was that there are more advanced kids overall in the classes. Did not sense a big divide between HC kids & other kids in the class. Kids seemed engaged and even the math course (which was not honors) seemed actually more rigorous. HC usually begin to take 1-3 AP courses in 10th at BHS.

Our kid would not do IBX and as 2/3 HC are doing regular IB now, two years seems like a long time... then the student is hit with a super hard somewhat inflexible program. If a student is pursuing IBX might be better a fit for some HC. But we like the flexibility, overall rigor and multiple other aspects of BHS, in our opinion it is closer to what Garfield can offer in the good ways but closer, so I think we will be...
Ballard bound

Anonymous said...

We are wrestling with the decision to send our son to Cascadia next year for 3rd Grade. He qualified for HCC this year (first time taking test) and we do feel he is not challenged at all at our local school. We went on the Cascadia tour and felt that it was not a perfect fit, but no worse than the local school. He would prefer to stay in the local school with his friends, but to be honest he is not that social and only has one real friend. I'm just hoping others could share advice and experiences of opting in early vs. at the transition to middle or high school. My son is very bright and always will be, but I'm struggling with what the real advantages of HCC at this age are. I feel like maybe the more friendly and nurturing environment of the local school will create positive associations with school, and if we shake things up if he will not see it as a positive experience. Thank you.

Steve
coregis@gmail.com

Pelle Langstrumpf said...

Hi,
I am thinking about moving my daughter to Decatur. She is in 3rd grade and tested into HC in 2nd grade, but we kept her at Bryant because she was terrified by the thought of changing schools and loosing her friends. Now, she says that she would like to be more challenged.
Does anyone have experience with Decatur? I can't find much on the web and the info night for potential new parents is only one day before the end of the open enrollment period.
Thank you,
Pelle

NE Parent said...

We have two kids at Cascadia. Both moved in second from Wedgwood. For our kids, the move was a non-event. They knew other kids from Wedgwood that moved with them or had moved earlier (or later). And there were friends there from their baseball and soccer teams.
My perception before our first child transferred, was that its HCC, so the kids must be different. Personally, I’m not sure if I hadn’t already known it was an HCC school if I would have noticed when visiting.

Our kids have always had excellent teachers, I haven’t felt that those at Cascadia have been any better or worse, or anymore nurturing or non-nurturing that in the neighborhood school. Teachers can apply to teach at Cascadia like any other school, they get paid the same, and they are all from the same pool.

I would say the biggest issue is that because Cascadia is so large and draws from such a large area, that it impacts the parent community. But on the positive side, there are many active parents so things like science night and math night and PTA funding have all been great. For our daughter, a pair of moms run a girls scout troop which has been fantastic. For our son, chess club has been fun, etc. The selection of after-school activities has really been great.

The other issue that I haven’t liked is that this year our kids rarely have any homework. Personally, I used to like the once weekly writing assignments and the math assignments. There was never a ton of homework, but stuff our older child had to do is now not assigned to our younger child who has the same teacher. I suppose some parents like this change in school-wide policy, but the lack of any regularity has caused me to feel less connected to the school as I used to review and check the homework.

One thing we considered when deciding to move to Cascadia was the concern of how bored our kids would be by the time they were in fifth grade at their neighborhood school. As HCC kids excel, the gap seems to widen. Kindergarten for us was fine because all was new. By first grade, math had already become boring.

I think the PTA funds some additional support staff because when our kids have needed extra help with writing etcetera, they seemed to get it. Getting the occasional positive personal notes from these staff has been really nice. Overall, for our family, Cascadia has been fantastic.

Ann S. said...

Just a note to those who are considering joining HC in elementary. Please consider your child's strength in math and whether or not it aligns with the next year math curriculum in HC. It might be easier to move to HC if your neighborhood school has "walk to math" or other advanced options. Though my kiddo always tests high in math, we found that fully skipping grades of math were problematic. If we could do it again, we might not have joined HC until middle school (where math placement is not HC dependent.)

Anonymous said...

I agree with Ann, and also warn that if your child is happy with peers at their neighborhood school, they may find the “quarks” of HC students a little difficult to tolerate. My advice is to stay and supplement if they’re happy, go if they’re an outlier. Advocate for more advanced learning (esp math/SCIENCE) in all middle schools while you’re at it, and maybe you won’t have to decide to switch peer groups in 6th.

Scaffolding matters

Anonymous said...

Enrollment question for anyone who knows: Do we need to submit an open enrollment form for a child going from Cascadia to HCC at Hamilton if Hamilton isn't our reference middle school? I don't remember submitting the form for our older child, but it was three years ago and I'm getting old.

By the same token, do we need to submit an open-enrollment form for our child who's leaving Hamilton and not continuing on the HCC pathway to Garfield?

--Open Enrollment Qs

Benjamin Leis said...

If enrolled at Hamilton or Cascadia You will be automatically assigned to the next pathway school not your Attendance Area school. You can usually confirm this using the district's assignment tool (I haven't checked if its up to date) : http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=14242

So no you don't have to do anything for your Elementary student but you do need to file the form for your middle schooler.


Anonymous said...

Benjamin, what about high school? Particularly for the 2019-2020 school year? If you are already in a HCC pathway school, is the default assignment to the HCC pathway school that you would be assigned, or the attendance area school based on your address? In other words, if you are currently a Jane Addams student and do not submit an open enrollment form, are you placed in your attendance area school, or Lincoln? Thanks

Anonymous said...

Anyone have experience with a gifted underachiever? I have a third grade son who tests highly on cognitive/iQ tests but who is not very motivated to do more than the minimum on school work. He is a voracious reader and gets very into subjects that he is interested in, but so far his interests are not lining up well with schoolwork. When given harder assignments and some gentle insistence, he does rise to the challenge and shows good creative and critical thinking skills. Our experience in public school though has been lackluster; teachers will not offer enrichment/accelerated curriculum to kids unless they are asking for it, and our son is not that kind of kid. We moved him to a private school for this reason with more flexible groupings, and he has been receiving some math enrichment, but the problem is still there. We are thinking of putting him in public middle school. If he isn't in HCC (based on achievement scores), how can we make sure he doesn't just coast through his classes with a minimum of effort?

-Coaster

Anonymous said...

@Open Enrollment Qs:

To double check you can look up your children's default assignment for next year with the "assignment lookup tool" at:
http://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=14242

Last year, I found out, using this tool, that my daughter's default school was Garfield for 9th grade because of the HCC pathway (coming from Hamilton) and not Roosevelt, our neighborhood school. We submitted an open enrollment form, listing Ingraham as first choice (where she is now) and Roosevelt as second.

Anonymous said...

February 5, 2018 at 7:11 AM : Our across the street neighbor is a 9th grader at Garfield and she rides Metro home from school. It takes about 90 minutes from what I gather and she has at least one transfer. I am grateful Lincoln HS will be opening the year my HCC kid starts 9th grade because that sounds like a horrible commute to me.
NSeattleMom

Anonymous said...

@ Coaster, most of the gifted underachievers I know are students who are either (a) extreme outliers--and thus extremely bored by what others think is "appropriate" level work for them; or (b) or are dealing with often-undiagnosed learning disabilities and/or related challenges, such as ADHD or anxiety.

I don't know if either of those resonates with you, but one or both might be worth considering... Based on our experience to date, I wouldn't expect these issues to resolve themselves in middle school, either--whether private or public (HCC or not). It sounds like the sort of thing to try to get to the bottom of now. Many kids with various issues often practice work avoidance, can focus well only when particularly interested in a topic, have trouble advocating for more challenge, etc.

Worth investigating

Anonymous said...

@coaster, what “worth investigating” wrote is on target. I would add “ADHD and/or anxiety” not just “or”.... This is pretty typical behavior of gifted students, and there was a presentation at Cascadia recently that covered this and other concerns. You might investigate. Our child has trouble with focus, confidence and anxiety, despite being wicked smart. Problems arise with writing, word problems and project-based learning. These are all useful exercises, just painful for our child who simply won’t put in the effort because these take concentration or organizational skills that are lacking.

2e challenges

Anonymous said...

Steve & Pelle,

Whether HCC or gen-ed, the key academic benefit will largely depend on what your child needs in relation to what each environment offers.

If you're not sure about the level of additional math challenge your child needs, your child can take the free placement tests on www.singaporemath.com. You might want to start with the current grade placement test, and work your way up to see if the the 2 years accelerated math the HCC schools provide is a good fit.

Do you believe your child's assigned reading comprehension level in gen-ed is accurate and representative of what they read (with full understanding) at home? In gen-ed, my child's teacher stopped the reading comprehension assessments at 1 year above grade level, so my child never touched the leveled books at school. In HCC, the assessments were done correctly (no arbitrary ceiling), and advanced reading material was available in class.

The benefit for us is vast yet simple - in HCC, my child has the opportunity to learn.

Decatur Mom

Anonymous said...

I have a question regarding school choice that I hope someone can answer. My child is a freshman at Ingraham through the HCC pathway but may switch to Ballard (our reference school) for a number of personal reasons. She won't be clear on that decision until after the Open Enrollment window closes. Is she still be able to have a guaranteed assignment to her neighborhood reference school-- Ballard-- up to to May 31?

Thank you in advance.
Ballard Mom

Anonymous said...

Ballard Mom, you'd need to find the language in the most recently approved Student Assignment Plan for 2018-19. I was under the impression that students could be placed on a waitlist if forms were not submitted during the February Open Enrollment Choice window. You need to find it in writing.

GLP said...

Look for the 2017-2018 Studenr Assignment Plan. The Board voted down the 2018-2019 Student Assignment (because the staff included 2019 HC pathways in that document and everything got complicated from there). So, the existing plan for this year stays in effect for next year (i.e. there is so 2018-2019 SAP document to look for).

Anonymous said...

Thank you GLP and Anon at 12:11pm. But I really don't want to mess this up by misreading or misunderstanding. I'll reach out to growthboundaries@seattleschools.org to see if I can get the info and report back.

Ballard Mom

GLP said...

Ballard Mom - I would also email admissions@seattleschools.org. That's the email on the open enrollment info at the SPS website.

-GLP

Anonymous said...

Thanks will do, GLP

Ballard Mom

Anonymous said...

Ballard Mom -- I have a similar question to yours -- Spending some time at the SPS site, my impression is that open enrollment, with tie breakers/priorities ends February 15th, and that the May 31st deadline only applies if you are switching to a school that still has spots at that point (i.e. tie breakers/priorities don't apply).

However, I don't know what happens with this statement "students are only guaranteed assignment to their attendance area school. " -- but can imagine that submitting an open enrollment form officially removes that guarantee (which would apply for us).

Ballard Mom's child is in yet a different position, since she won't be submitting an open enrollment form this year. I'd love to see anything clarity you get on your specific situation (as other say, I think that requires actually asking a seattle schools person).

Doctor Hu said...

WHAT SIZE ARE THE NEW HIGH SCHOOL HC PATHWAYS IN THE FINAL 3 + 1 PLAN?

The new high school boundaries plan establishes three HC pathways at Garfield, Lincoln and West Seattle, plus the IB/IBX HC option at Ingraham (3 + 1 Plan). Based on current 2017-18 HC numbers and final Map F4v3 with Lincoln fully enrolled, here are the sizes of each of those new HC pathway cohorts:


* INGRAHAM IB/IBX HC OPTION 379 HC enrolled, 361 north end AA, 18 south end AA


* LINCOLN HC PATHWAY 342 HC enrolled, 361 Ingraham IB/IBX Option HC enrolled, 236 HC eligible

Lincoln AA: 182? HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway, 146? HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 0 HC eligible (? ft RS)

Roosevelt AA: 46? HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway, 28? HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 112 HC eligible (<28 ft RS)

Ballard AA: 53? HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway, 38? HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 88 HC eligible (<46 ft RS)

Nathan Hale AA: 36? HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway, 63? HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 26 HC eligible (43 ft RS)

Ingraham AA: 25? HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway, 86? HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 10 HC eligible (48 ft RS)


* GARFIELD HC PATHWAY 287 HC enrolled, 15 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 25 HC eligible

Garfield AA: 170 HC enrolled Garfield Pathway, 9 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 3 HC eligible (74 ft RS)

Franklin AA: 85 HC enrolled Garfield Pathway, 4 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 18 HC eligible (28 ft RS)

Rainier Beach AA: 32 HC enrolled Garfield Pathway, 2 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 4 HC eligible (21 ft RS)


* WEST SEATTLE HC PATHWAY 123 HC enrolled, 3 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 14 HC eligible

West Seattle AA: 93 HC enrolled West Seattle Pathway, 2 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 1 HC eligible (64 ft RS)

Chief Sealth AA: 30 HC enrolled West Seattle Pathway, 1 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option, 13 HC eligible (49 ft RS)


379 HC enrolled Ingraham IB/IBX Option (94.75/grade)
342 HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway (85.5/grade)
287 HC enrolled Garfield Pathway (71.75/grade)
123 HC enrolled West Seattle Pathway (30.75/grade)
244 HC eligible local AA schools (107 Roosevelt + 86 Ballard + 21 Hale + 8 Ingraham + 9 Franklin + 13 Chief Sealth)
32 HC eligible other schools (12 Center + 10 Nova + 9 Cleveland + 1 Middle College)

1407 HC enrolled/eligible (436 ft RS)


For more details, see What Size Are the New 3 + 1 Plan High School HC Pathways?

1) Full-time 1/18 Running Start numbers include all students, not just HC.

2) Attachment I, HS Boundary Scenario Comparison Table with Projected Enrollment, and Map F4v3 figures show my earlier calculation 262 north end HC enrolled students moving from the Garfield HC pathway to the new Lincoln HC pathway will be joined by 40 captured HC eligible Ballard change area plus 40 captured HC eligible Roosevelt change area, to make up the new HC enrolled Lincoln Pathway cohort 342.

3) New Lincoln HC Pathway captures 80 formerly HC eligible (40 Ballard + 40 Roosevelt), new West Seattle HC Pathway captures 20 formerly HC eligible (20 West Seattle), meaning 100 students change from HC eligible to HC enrolled in those new pathways.

4) Attachment I Boundary Comparison Table and Map F4v3 notes are helpful but rely on older 2016-17 data, and show Lincoln HS future enrollment in 2019-20 when it will be only half-full. So in my chart, Lincoln figures are doubled. Also, Attachment I and Map F4v3 show "HCC eligible" as including "Receiving HCC" i.e. HC enrolled; my chart follows consistent prior SPS data showing "HC eligible" students at other schools as distinct from "HC enrolled" students in HC pathways and IB/IBX option.

5) These new HC pathway numbers do not consider 2018-19 HC grandfathering rules or 2019-20 HC opt-in rules, which will affect transitional enrollment patterns during the Lincoln HC Pathway roll-up, while HC enrollment overall will also rise.

Anonymous said...

There is also the grandfathered 7th and 8th grade West Seattle kids currently going to Washington Middle School. I believe it was roughly a dozen students for those classes so that would bring the total cohort to 24. Yikes, they have their work cut out for them unless they and GHS can recapture running start kids. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

Anonymous said...

I found out some interesting information from a principal regarding "honors" courses at the high schools. Some schools offer them in a couple of subjects, others do not etc. Some offer single level class, but a student can do extra credit for honors. Ingraham has alot of "honors classes", but feedback from HC parents I know is that many are not rigorous and can hardly be called honors.

There is no consistency between honors courses from school to school or teacher to teacher. As such I was told by a principal, college admission officers cannot evaluate them, as they do AP or IB courses which are better indicators of college preparation.

Therefore, some schools like Ballard (& likely Roosevelt) that have very large overall (spectrum plus HC) populations of advanced learners often have classes that result in a high degree of rigor, classes like Chemistry & Physics. For example, at Ballard I was told these classes are some of the most challenging, students typically earn lower GPA's in those classes, therefore making an honors designation redundant. A former Evergreen student told me that physics at Ballard was "hard enough" without an honors designation.
KL

Anonymous said...

Following up to my earlier question regarding the last moment that students can submit a choice form for their neighborhood school, in my case for a student who is currently assigned to Ingraham but considering a move to Ballard. Response from Growth Boundaries email at SPS:

"Yes, your child would still have a guaranteed assignment to her neighborhood reference school-- Ballard-- up to May 31. We will still need you to fill out the choice form by May 31st if she does decide she wants to move to Ballard."

I'd also like to comment on posts about rigor comparisons between Ballard and Ingraham. My HCC student is finding Chemistry to be very rigorous at Ingraham; Honors LA and SS not so much but completely on par with friends' experiences at Ballard, who are reading the same books and seem to be following the same curriculum. My gut is that "honors" is just not as challenging as the name implies at either school.

Ballard Mom

Anonymous said...

The lack of consistency from school to school, and even class to class within the same school, has always been an issue with SPS. It makes it difficult to just look at course offerings and determine if a school is going to provide the amount of rigor you'd expect. The increasing number of students choosing Ballard and Roosevelt (over IHS and GHS), may tell you something.

Anonymous said...

@Ballard Mom

That’s very interesting that you say that about the difference in rigor between Chemistry and LA/SS as this is the first year Ingraham has eliminated self-contained HCC 9th grade classes in LA/SS. Now HCC students just take the same honors classes as other 9th graders. This follows other changes, including 2/3 of this year’s HCC 10th graders doing Standard IB vs. IBx. Our son is in 11th grade now and had taken those two classes in his cohort,, but there seems to be noticeable differences for the new classes of students. If most HCC students will just do regular IB, I guess the school felt that HCC level classes in LA and SS were no longer needed. While IBx is definitely not the best fit for every student, the changes in middle school history alignment and the lack of consensus between Ingraham and parents over a sufficient 12th grade offering have seemingly curtailed IBx. We will see what happens this year.

Ram Parent

Anonymous said...

A different teacher is assigned to H Chem at Ingraham this year (likely not the same teacher current 11th graders would have had). Another science teacher retired at the end of last year, along with a long time LA teacher. It might be difficult to compare the experiences of current 9th/10th graders to those of current 11th/12th graders.

Anonymous said...

Ram Parent, when we decided on Ingraham we understood that honors would be open to everyone and had no problem with that because we were also led to believe that it would be a high rigor class, which has not exactly been the case. Our child is currently planning on IB instead of IBX and I worry about another year of “honors” and how it might not prepare kids for that program.

Anon at 2:23, I don’t know about high numbers choosing BHS and RHS over IHS or what that tells us. I do know that over 40 9th grade HCC students were left on the IHS waitlist last year when there was a lottery and many ended up in their neighborhood schools. I suspect we will know more about preferences this year when all HCC students are guaranteed admission at IHS IB if they choose it. It’s possible my own child will transfer to BHS next year but if so it will be for reasons other than academics.

Ballard Mom

Anonymous said...

The whole "honors" thing is even more of an unknown now, with the science "realignment."

The new science sequence will have HCC students taking ChemA/PhysicsA in 7th grade, BioA/B in 8th, and ChemB/PhysicsB in 9th. These are all designed to be classes that are "accessible" to GE students. According to the FAQs on the realignment page, "honors and modified designations are available" for the 7th and 8th grade HCC science classes--but it's unclear what that means. If the classes are actually TAUGHT at an honors level for HCC students, that's great, although the honors label itself won't mean much since few people want HS credit for MS science classes. However, it's not clear there really will be honors versions of these new courses in the first place, since the the honors/modified designation seems to only apply to the MS versions and not the versions taken in HS--and it's hard to believe they'll bother creating honors versions just for middle school HCC students.

I should also mention that Ms. Welch had previously indicated that honors versions WOULD continue to be available, so perhaps the FAQs are just outdated? Who knows. She was clear, however, that honors versions would NOT be standalone classes, so presumably anything that is offered would either be more along the lines of the "do extra for honors" model, or, hopefully not, the so-called "honors for all" model. In either, case, however, under the new sequence it doesn't seem like students are likely to get much in the way of honors-level chemistry, biology, or physics until they get to AP or IB level classes.

Hoping Wrong

Anonymous said...

@anonymous at 3:43pm

I completely agree that the experiences may be difficult to compare. We missed out on Dinter but the new HL Bio teacher is really great according to my son. Though in many respects, the new Honors Chem teacher (which is pretty much an HCC only class) wouldn’t have to do much to be better liked by the students than the one our son had. From what I’ve heard, the former H Chem teacher is much better suited to Physics and is much better in that area. So some of the changes are definitely improvements.

We have another child coming up to Ingraham HCC this year and are trying to figure out the science situation. Ms. Welch, the science alignment website, and Ingraham’s staff don’t seem to be on the same page as far as 9th grade HCC science. We’ve heard everything from Chem/Physics A to Chem/Physics B to maintaining Honors Chem. Admittedly we missed the open house, so maybe that was answered there.

Ram Parent

Anonymous said...

Ram Parent, when we decided on Ingraham we understood that honors would be open to everyone and had no problem with that because we were also led to believe that it would be a high rigor class, which has not exactly been the case. Our child is currently planning on IB instead of IBX and I worry about another year of “honors” and how it might not prepare kids for that program.

Anon at 2:23, I don’t know about high numbers choosing BHS and RHS over IHS or what that tells us. I do know that over 40 9th grade HCC students were left on the IHS waitlist last year when there was a lottery and many ended up in their neighborhood schools. I suspect we will know more about preferences this year when all HCC students are guaranteed admission at IHS IB if they choose it. It’s possible my own child will transfer to BHS next year but if so it will be for reasons other than academics.

I agree with all that different teachers provide different educational experiences, of course. We don't disapprove of our child's IHS teachers, just hoped for more challenge. The chem teacher is very good, imo.

Ballard Mom

Anonymous said...

In our experience, the honors level math at Ingraham has been very solid. The word is that IB is humanities/writing focused - the IB exams and assessments are writing intensive, and even IB Math requires a short research paper. We wrongly assumed, however, there'd be more advanced writing instruction and practice in order to prepare students for IB demands.

Anonymous said...

@Ballard mom- We know of HC kids who chose Ballard over Ingraham last year because they could follow a nearly identical AP pathway to Garfield closer to home, starting 1-3 AP classes in 10th. They also tended to be interested in robotics, digital arts or other strong programs Ballard has to offer. I heard Ballard had 53 9th HC (& RHS 74 HC) last year, but that research others did demonstrated the 40 on the Ingraham waitlist actually had ended up at Garfield not neighborhood schools.
NWM

Anonymous said...

@NWM-not entirely true. I know at least one student who was on the Ingraham waitlist last year who ended up at RHS.

Counting Heads

Anonymous said...

NWM it seems silly to continue debating this at some point but I do know of several —more than 6– students who went to Ballard in the fall of 2017 because the waitlist to Ingraham didn’t move. I hear that are very happy there and super satisfied with the outcome so all‘s well that ends well.

Anonymous said...

Either that is a skewed sample or enrollment planning is not paying attention to their numbers. I wish I could be confident it was either. They are under the impression most of the waitlist went to Garfield, and that is where the bulk of the relief will be from a lifted cap, not really Ballard and especially not Roosevelt.

NJP

Doctor Hu said...

Steve & Pelle, my advice for you Steve would be to move your son to Cascadia for 3rd grade, and my advice for you Pelle would be to move your daughter to Decatur for 4th grade. Both are excellent schools where they will be challenged and will also make new friends quickly. Moving now will give them more time to settle in and they will already have many old classmates by the time they make that much more difficult move to middle school at Hamilton, JAMS or REMS.

Steve, you "feel like maybe the more friendly and nurturing environment of the local school will create positive associations with school, and if we shake things up if he will not see it as a positive experience," but really you should not assume that Cascadia has a less friendly and nurturing environment than your local school, where you mention that your son has just one close friend anyway. And Pelle, your daughter sounds very social and she will already know kids at Decatur and make new friends there, where she will also be joined by more newcomers from Bryant joining 4th and 5th grade at Decatur before going to middle school.

For most families in both your situations, personally I don't see any advantages in putting off the move that it sounds like your kids are already ready to make. You won't regret it.

Doctor Hu said...

"Enrollment question for anyone who knows: Do we need to submit an open enrollment form for a child going from Cascadia to HCC at Hamilton if Hamilton isn't our reference middle school? I don't remember submitting the form for our older child, but it was three years ago and I'm getting old."

"By the same token, do we need to submit an open-enrollment form for our child who's leaving Hamilton and not continuing on the HCC pathway to Garfield?"

Open Enrollment Qs, I'm not sure that you received all the right answers above, so just in case:

1. Yes, you do need to submit an open enrollment choice form by February 16 for a child going from Cascadia to HCC at Hamilton if Hamilton isn't your reference middle school. On that form you should request the "Feeder School Tiebreaker" because although Hamilton is not your HC pathway middle school, Cascadia is a HC feeder school for Hamilton. This should put you after siblings, but before the lottery tiebreaker. If you miss the February 16 early open enrollment deadline, you can still waitlist without tiebreakers after those lottery numbers based on the actual date you do submit the form until May 31.

2. Yes, you do need to submit an open enrollment choice form by May 31 for your older child who's leaving Hamilton and not continuing on the HCC pathway to Garfield, assuming they are going to your attendance area school, because otherwise they will be assigned to Garfield by default. But if they are choosing an option high school, you will need to file during early open enrollment by February 16 to participate in the lottery tiebreaker and avoid instead being waitlisted lower by the date you file.

Doctor Hu said...

"[I]f you are currently a Jane Addams student and do not submit an open enrollment form, are you placed in your attendance area school, or Lincoln?"

For 2018-19, if you are a Jane Addams student who does not submit an open enrollment form, you are placed in your default HC pathway school which is Garfield. To be guaranteed You would need to choose your attendance area school during open enrollment before May 31, after which you might be space available.

For 2019-20 (you're planning ahead!), if you are a Jane Addams student who does not submit an open enrollment form, you will be placed in your default HC pathway school which will be Lincoln. Again, to be guaranteed you would need to choose your attendance area school during open enrollment before May 31, after which you might be space available.

Anonymous said...

In case anyone is interested, I found out from enrollment planning that there will continue to be a cap on HC enrollment at Ingraham, even after new seats are added in 2019. It will not move beyond a 120 HC maximum. Therefore, the HC enrollment at Ingraham would not be expected to grow substantially in the future, especially as Lincoln becomes a north end pathway in 2019, & if it remains a north end pathway.
L

Anonymous said...

@ L, yes, they had said previously that they were adding HC seats at Ingraham about equal to the amount of students on the waiting list for HF 9th at Ingraham this year--so it could, theoretically, cover demand next year--but it was never (from what I saw) presented as a complete lifting of the cap.

Anonymous said...

Question about HCC kids at Ballard: without a specific “academy” within the school (like biotech) and if your kid isn’t interested in film or marine science, have you found that there is any kind of community for HCC kids? HCC has been great for us for many reasons, one of which was creating a community for my slightly shy, studious kid. I’m concerned that without a targeted interest group to join at Ballard and no real “cohort” like she had in middle school, she’ll get lost in the giant student body that will push 2000 next year. Any thoughts? How have your kids navigated the sheer size of the school without being in an “academy”?
Undecided

Anonymous said...

@Undecided- We are also considering Ballard & have had the same concerns. We met a couple of HC students who told us they became interested in clubs and/or academy after being introduced to them at BHS. Students mentioned they were not considering prior. One student said she was turned off by the idea of clubs and now is involved in ASB and in other clubs.

At the larger schools like Garfield or Ballard, I did hear it is important to get involved in something whether band/orchestra, sport, club, newspaper, academy etc. There are so many activities, I think for the average HC kid geared toward learning, it opens up many opportunities they did not have in middle school. It is sometimes even difficult for them to choose between the many activities, especially schools with so many strong clubs & programs at the larger schools.
TS

Anonymous said...

Garfield it is.


Our student, APP/HCC since 1st grade Lowell, has chosen Garfield over Ingraham IBX and attendance area Roosevelt. Seems like most of the "serious" "old-timers" are choosing Garfield now that they are guaranteed to graduate there.

All 3 schools have strengths/advantages, all 3 are great. All 3 offer the same maths, all offer AP Stats. But, not one school is perfect.

In the end, it was the bountiful AP course catalogue at Garfield that made student pick Garfield. AP Chem, AP Bio, AP Physics, AP Environmental Sciences, Marine Biology. Plus, with over 500 HCC students, it is THE most vibrant school in terms of high achievers/highly capable. The one thing we've learned over the years, is, IT IS THE COHORT that matters. The cohort drives the master scheduling, and, the master schedule drives the choice/options available to the learners. Nothing comes close to Garfield for that. They have the experience with HC students and they have the rigor. Most importantly, college recruiters know Garfield.

Roosevelt has a SINGLE science AP course, physics, and that is it. No real honors chemistry even... Yes, it has an incredible student body of high achieving students, but, during shadow visit, kid said mostly he saw kids on phones. Kid was not impressed. Kid was particularly dismayed at their open house, where students talked to the crowd in the gym about clubs, not one mentioned academics. Ultimately, this is about fit. Some no doubt loved that Roosevelt evening and felt like they found their perfect home. Glad for them! But, it was a turn-off to our kid.

Ingraham had a fantastic vibe, really awesome choices, and, kid said he saw all kids working, all students were engaged when he shadowed there. But, kid does NOT want to answer math essay test questions. Kid does not want to write, write, write. Moreover, Ingraham is very weak on sciences except for fabulous Bio HL.

So, Garfield it is. We will most like partial homeschool for freshman language arts, because we have heard that 'honors for all' is a complete waste of time. We know kid can strengthen his written communication skills with a better choice than that. (Perhaps new thread to discuss options for partial home schooling for language arts?)

Looking forward to excellent Garfield instrumental music, robotics, etc.

Kid is looking forward to seeing to fellow Hamilton and JAMS 8th graders there, and even reuniting with some Washington Middle Schoolers too!

The strength is the cohort, numbers matter the most. Garfield will be fed by everyone but next year, and, everyone but the north the year after that. That will ensure the numbers will stay big.

-Future Bulldog

Anonymous said...

There were no shadow visits at Roosevelt. Were you thinking of Ingraham? Or Ballard? It's true there is one AP science at Roosevelt this year. Next year there will also be AP Environmental Science, and honors biotech is plenty rigorous as a class. What we liked about Roosevelt, is they seem willing to adjust to the population at hand. If science is missing, they add science. As opposed to Garfield, which seems to be moving the other direction. I thought we were supposed to head to classrooms to hear about academics at the open house, and that the gym talk was supposed to be about school culture. That's the way our Garfield tour was structured, too.

After 8 years in the cohort my student is quite happy to be headed to Roosevelt with most of their HCC friends. It's all a gamble, at I hope it works out for all of us.

NE Parent

Anonymous said...

Glad you found your best fit! Roosevelt is a great school. One of the best in the state. But, the principal and the science Department head were clear about no honors and clear that they MIGHT add an AP Chem potentially in the years to come, but that there was no budget for that. Great if you advocate and get it added.

And yes, one can arrange a visit by asking a student you know if they will take your kid for a day — and that kid asks their teachers if they bring someone to class — they all said yes. Then your kid just signs in as a visitor and stays with their student as a visitor.

So yes, shadow visits did occur. It was helpful.

Again, glad it worked out and your student will thrive.

Garfeild principal spoke of plans to expand existing sciences. School protected Latin during RIFs; our due diligence showed multiple academic decisions they have undertaken to bring more rigor.

Again, all schools are great. It is about individual needs, priorities, and fit. For our kid driven by sciences and engineering, who does great within a big cohort, Garfield is the right choice.

-future bulldog

Anonymous said...

There are also a lot more humanities APs at Roosevelt, and more AP sections over all. We're looking forward to a little bit more balance in an education that has neglected the humanities so far.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I hope that misinformation you got didn't dissuade you! It's not AP chem, it's AP Environmental science, which is budgeted for. Garfield has been great, and I hope it will be for your student. But you didn't make your choice with full information.

Anonymous said...

There are issues with Ingraham as most HC (3/4 according to school)are pursuing a "regular" IB pathway. Talk to HC parents at Ingraham. This pathway includes very little to zero acceleration prior to 11th grade. For example, there is only 1/2 year of World history in 10th grade, the most basic high school requirement. There is also a "wonky" math pathway. Honors courses are not standardized between schools & recognized (like AP or IB) and so are teacher dependent. Science overall is weak.

At Garfield, Ballard, Roosevelt HC students are successfully taking 1-3AP courses in 10th, 4-5 in 11th and again in 12th.

At Ingraham unless in IBX there is an issue with lack or rigor in 9th & 10th. From a college admissions standpoint the IB coordinator and UW admissions will tell you that IBX is not preferred over IB as colleges look at hard courses taken junior & senior year.

Unless your student is intending to graduate early to begin college senior year or has something else planned, there is a senior year gap to fill that may not be of benefit in the long run.

IB entails much organization and the typical HC student may be accelerated in academics, but delayed or grade level in these skills.

The regular HC pathway for HC is new only a year or two old. Reviews have been poor to date. I predict with the opening of Lincoln, and demise of IBX at Ingraham, parents will be drawn to Lincoln or neighborhood schools to follow the AP pathway.

In addition, the AP pathway offered at comprehensive schools (unlike IB) allow for the typical HC student, many gifted in music & other areas to explore and have time for many clubs and activities. I am
signed .....not lured away to help the district relieve capacity.

Anonymous said...

@ Future Bulldog- I agree with your assessment of Garfield. It is truly a wonderful school. I get you are trying to make a case for Garfield over Roosevelt, but I personally think it is awesome that kids have options & that HC has grown at neighborhood schools. Not all can make the trek!

Garfield has more AP science offerings than RHS & BHS, and the really huge HC cohort. The

However, for those of us in NW where bus service changed & traffic increased & whose kid now needs to travel 1 1/2 hours each way, it is no longer a viable option. That commute would completely overshadow Garfield's benefits & not allow time for homework & activities. In fact we know zero kids from our corner heading to Garfield. Everyone we know is headed to BHS or IHS.

However, to be clear, there are also many HC kids at BHS (& RHS) who follow a nearly identical AP pathway at Ballard. They get the AP classes they want & need. If there is any issue (told its rare at BHS) the BHS principal for example follows state policy for HC to access the advanced core classes in their progression, same as Garfield or any other school. The HC designation follows the student.

In addition to very strong math & science, the BHS robotics team (first in NW) won the world championship out of 400 teams and many countries last year. The digital film program students learn incredible skills applicable to many fields & many go to to prestigious schools with scholarships. The BHS oceanography class also takes a trip to Hawaii, like Garfield. They also offer (like Garfield) CIH classes like Astronomy. Service Learning trips to Spanish speaking countries. There are also many advanced learners, spectrum kids who at some point may have qualified for HC, in addition to the HC population at the school.
LM

Anonymous said...

P.S. My student shadowed at Ingraham and noticed many kids on phones and not engaged at all in classes. His friend had the same experience. Many looked bored. It really is so individual & not very scientific.
LM

Anonymous said...

Nobody is trying to convince anybody that school X is the best. Future Bulldog said: "all schools are great. It is about individual needs, priorities, and fit."

On tours, we saw strengths in the 3 schools, Roosevelt, Ingraham, & Garfield. We also saw 3 different challenges. Everyone sees different things, depending on one's needs. Ballard was not our attendance area school, so it was not considered.

HCC enrolled 8th graders have until May 31st to put in an enrollment form if they want their AA school.

Roosevelt has 1 AP science course at present. No misinformation about that. They say they are adding an AP environmental sciences course for 2019. Time will tell. They said they *might* consider AP chemistry at some point. Roosevelt is one of the BEST high schools in the entire state, it has extremely high test scores overall (principal said approx. 99% of ALL rough riders pass the state tests - that points to a very homogenous group of high flying learners) AND it has the most number of national merit scholars. Any student going to Roosevelt is going to access great teachers, great courses, and within a highly motivated, successful student body. That is what the empirical data says. RHS rocks.

Ingraham has IB/IBx which is an incredibly strong college prep track. IB is also controlled by an entity outside of SPS, which is a huge advantage IMHO: it cannot be watered down or diluted or grade-inflated. Ingraham is also diverse and has a very cohesive faculty with a fantastic principal whose focus is on the kids. He genuinely likes every kind of kid. They have strong robotics. They have fantastic biology, they have honors tracks for freshmen/sophomores, but no HL or AP physics or chemistry. A great choice for students who mesh well with the writing heavy, assessment heavy approach (in contrast, AP courses have multiple choice components that some kids thrive with). There are families who chose it and have realized afterwards that it wasn't the best fit for their kid.

Garfield has the most AP sciences of any public school. But no honors for language arts for freshmen. And, there have been changes over the years that seem to go against the needs of highly capable learners (such as doing away for honors language arts, pushing in "mentoring" aka advisory). It is curious to observe the downward trajectory of the number of bulldog national merit scholars. Perhaps attributable to the way families in HCC have made other choices for the last 2 years hoping to avoid a possible Lincoln geosplit? Who knows. Data: last year, 74 HCC kids from JAMS/Hamilton choose to be current Roosevelt freshmen; the number was radically different just 3 years ago. In 2015-16, only 25 out of 80 HCC enrolled kids picked RHS; those 25 are juniors now. There are 24 out of 89 HCC RHS seniors now FYI, and last year there were only 12 HCC RHS grads, and the year before that only 8 HCC grads. This RHS trend line clearly shows a disruptive shift away from Garfield happened last year. No way to prove it, but looks like the looming question mark of Lincoln drove choices away from Garfield to RHS. Garfield remains a strong school, with the course catalogue to support HC learners and it will be fed HC learners from all city for next year, and HC learners from all city minus the north in 2 years and 3 years from now, and so the cohort is going to remain very strong there for the next several years. It is a truly diverse school, which provides an environment that enhances learning in ways that are not necessarily measurable on a test score, but are extraordinary important for developing perspective.

In the end, with a science student who dislikes writing, Garfield was the right fit, but we still are entirely sure. We know HCC students who go to all 3 schools, and all of them are happy.

So I'll repeat: all 3 are great! It really is just a matter of fit, and each family figures out what is best. Glad to have such strong institutions available for Seattle's students.

Likely Garfield

Anonymous said...

@Likely Garfield-

Most of these schools offer honors classes or honors credit, or "honors for all". I don't put much weight into any of it. Honors classes (ex honors science at Ingraham) are no indication of rigor. They are teacher dependent, vary based upon overall population of the school and vary tremendously between schools.

Some schools, perhaps with more similar populations, do not create separate honors classes for certain subjects, because the overall population is much stronger (than other schools) and the non honors option is already challenging as illustrated by grade data and talking with principals. I have also spoken to multiple HC students and parents at IHS & BHS.

Adding in BHS to the discussion for science, in addition to a pre-engineering & computer programming track, world championship winning robotic team in 2016, they offer AP Bio, AP Chem, CIHS Astronomy, AP Computer Science (can use as a science or math), and for non-AP/CIHS courses they offer genetics, botany, physics, chem,oceanography,environmental horticulture, ecology. There is a 4th year post AP computer science course that gets deep into programming. There are HC students who take an AP course alongside another science course such as genetics in the elective category. For math, the math teachers are excellent and the AP AB & AP BC calculus teacher is fantastic.

Ballard is also adding an additional 2-3 more AP courses next year in various subjects according to principal.

Ballard's graduation and test rates are on par with Roosevelt! Isn't that great we have so many great schools. The data also indicate that in the past 4-5 years graduates are heading to the many of the same 4 year colleges as Ingraham, Garfield, Roosevelt.

I think it is great that HC students have options and some can stay neighborhood and pursue the same AP pathway they would have at Garfield. The overall demographic of BHS & RHS is very strong leading to less of a divide in the school and in the classes than at IHS or GHS.
Future Ballard

Anonymous said...

@Likely Garfield - Keep in mind that not all HC are fortunate to have access to 2-3 schools in which to choose. Kids within the Ingraham zone only have 2, and Garfield is too far to be a reasonable choice for many. We know of an Ingraham zone HC kid who really wants Ballard. In addition, for NE Garfield can be an easier commute than from many areas of the corners of NW. I concur with the poster who mentioned they know of no kids in this area considering Garfield. This is a change from just a few years ago, but bus lines have changed and BHS is pulling in more and more of its HC kids in its zone. The principal of BHS has HC kids of his own and is super supportive of them in his school.
BHS bound

Anonymous said...

Let's support Parkland student survivors and now activists who are organizing a March For Our Lives in DC on March 24th to demand that children's "lives and safety become a priority and that we end gun violence and mass shootings in our schools today."

"Mission Statement: Not one more. We cannot allow one more child to be shot at school. We cannot allow one more teacher to make a choice to jump in front of a firing assault rifle to save the lives of students. We cannot allow one more family to wait for a call or text that never comes. Our schools are unsafe. Our children and teachers are dying. We must make it our top priority to save these lives."

https://www.marchforourlives.com/

rt

Anonymous said...

reposting from SSS blog here
"Anonymous Doctor Hu said...
"The only real difference between Ingraham and Rainier Beach or Sealth at this point (as 2/3 of HC are not pursuing IBX at Ingraham) is that there are just more HC attending Ingraham. . . . The difference at this point is marketing by SPS (& Ingraham) in which parents are blindly following what the district has labeled 'a pathway' in my opinion and where kids friends are heading. The glue attracting them toward Ingraham has also been 'distance'. Traveling to Garfield from the north end was just too much for many kids. . . . In addition, . . . neighborhood comprehensive high schools also offer an advanced curriculum pathway identical to Garfield as well. Students can start taking AP courses in 10th and take them as they would at Garfield."

JBC, thanks for that solid history of high school HCC. Not all driven by academics, but often capacity. Makes one foresee future HC IB/IBX locations at Rainier Beach and Chief Sealth, and perhaps future HC AP locations at Ballard and Roosevelt. Whither Franklin and Nathan Hale? But then what common state OSPI standards control HC AP pathway designations? And what common OSPI standards control HC IB/IBX option designation? What should be the core essentials for such HC pathway or HC option designation?

2/16/18, 5:44 PM

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous Doctor Hu said...
"In SPS fashion, equity will most likely be achieved by eliminating services, not expanding them (meaning a slow death of IBX)."

my2cents, very enlightening description of the Ingraham IB/IBX HC Option in practice. So there are 1/4 to 1/3 of Ingraham HC students who pursue the IBX diploma in 10th and 11th grades. You make me wonder, among the remaining majority 3/4 to 2/3 who pursue the regular IB diploma in 11th and 12th grades, is there also a third category of HC students who do not earn the IB Diploma, but who simply earn various IB course completion certificates? Are there even some Ingraham HC students who take no IB courses at all?

You also make me think of the irony that (from other threads) the Green Dot charter is already marketing its new Rainier Beach charter high school as "the AP School" in the south end of the city while SPS does so little to support or market its own Rainier Beach High School as "the IB School"! One aspect that makes Rainier Beach (the public school) an attractive program school is that it is walking distance from its link light rail stop -- even for many north enders it would be quicker Orca transportation than to and from Ingraham! Chief Sealth is a different story, also because that school is already full, so any enrollment cap would be low and would maybe need a boundary change with West Seattle.

But as you say, IBX without any planned senior year is nothing more than a grade skip followed by Running Start. "In SPS fashion, equity will most likely be achieved by eliminating services, not expanding them (meaning a slow death of IBX)." Unless the school board establishes essential core standards for all designated HC AP pathways and all designated HC IB/IBX options so as to ensure compliance with OSPI Washington state law.

2/16/18, 7:51 PM

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Doctor Hu said...
"*State Law and Compliance*: As the District investigates options to serve students identified as highly capable, we must take into account the compliance challenges that could potentially occur. State law for highly capable requires a *'continuum of services'… for students…'from K12'*. An argument could easily be made that Seattle Public Schools (SPS) is out of compliance if there was not an International Baccalaureate Accelerated (IBX) program and we ended the existing pathway to Garfield High School. OSPI made it clear that only offering International Baccalaureate (IB) and Advanced Placement (AP) courses does not fulfill that requirement. Any solution created needs to provide a HC pathway designation and continuum of service to ensure compliance."

W. Jessee, S. Kokx, J. Halfager, S. Martin & M. Tolley, "Briefing Paper: Highly Capable Services (HC) in High Schools", November 25, 2017

School district staff thus recognize that state law requires SPS to provide qualified high school students with designated HC pathways and with continuum of HC services beyond regular IB or AP courses. But what more exactly must SPS offer Seattle high school HC students to meet these OSPI requirements?

Does IB school Ingraham satisfy this OSPI requirement because its HC IB optional pathway includes IBX? What does AP school Garfield now offer in its designated HC pathway, in addition to AP courses, to ensure continuum of HC service? What must new HC AP pathway schools Lincoln and West Seattle include and supplement as their their AP offerings?
What more such as IBX must IB schools Rainier Beach and Chief Sealth offer to be designated HC optional pathways like Ingraham?

We have already said goodbye to centralized elementary HCC (formerly just Lowell), and to centralized middle school HCC (formerly just Washington), and to centralized high school AP (formerly just Garfield) (1 Plan) by adding the (not very) centralized Ingraham IB/IBX HC option (1 + 1 Plan). We now bid adieu to that 1 + 1 Plan by adding AP schools Lincoln and West Seattle as new HC pathways (3 + 1 Plan). Adding IB schools Rainier Beach and Chief Sealth as optional IB/IBX pathways like Ingraham would establish a 3 + 3 Plan. Then of 10 Seattle comprehensive high schools only 4 would have no designated HC pathway and continuum of HC services: Ballard and Roosevelt (both already proposed as HC AP pathway schools), and Franklin and Nathan Hale (maybe alternative focus HC pathways, e.g., social justice and environment?).

Melissa, so that many more voices can join in this timely discussion on what are the necessary elements of a designated HC AP school pathway and of a designated HC IB school option, can you soon open a new thread: "What are the Core Essentials of a HC AP Pathway? What are the Core Essentials of a HC IB/IBX Option?"

2/16/18, 8:01 PM

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
@Doctor Hu- The only real difference between Ingraham and Rainier Beach or Sealth at this point (as 2/3 of HC are not pursuing IBX at INgraham) is that there are just more HC attending Ingraham.

They were initially lured away from Garfield (& I heard reluctantly) for IBX a program in which the 4th year never quite materialized. There are no HC self contained classes at Ingraham, not even so called "honors". This has now evolved into HC students pursuing regular IB alongside every other kid.

HC take all classes side by side with general ed students. The difference at this point is marketing by SPS (& Ingraham) in which parents are blindly following what the district has labeled "a pathway" in my opinion and where kids friends are heading. The glue attracting them toward Ingraham has also been "distance". Traveling to Garfield from the north end was just too much for many kids.

In addition, some parents have been savvy enough to ask lots of questions of principals & friends with HC kids and slowly figured out that their neighborhood comprehensive high schools also offer an advanced curriculum pathway identical to Garfield as well. Students can start taking AP courses in 10th and take them as they would at Garfield. HC students have priority access for core courses everywhere, (just like non HC students have access to core courses in their pathway) not just at Garfield.
-JBC

2/14/18, 10:34 AM

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
A particular IB class should be somewhat similar from school to school since they are in theory following a prescribed curriculum, but the larger cohort of HC students at Ingraham (many of whom pursue the IB diploma) allows for a broader range of advanced coursework (HL Physics and HL Math, for example). Without a large enough cohort of students needing more advanced coursework, many of those classes would not be offered - similar to Garfield and the number of AP courses offered there. IBX allows HC students to access IB a year early, but only if they pursue the full IB diploma. They can continue taking available IB courses in 12th grade, for potentially 3 years of AP/IB work, similar to Garfield or other high schools offering access to AP coursework in 10th grade.

The IBX program was designed as a 4 year pathway for students who have already been accelerated in their coursework. Without the IBX option, students are blocked from IB coursework until 11th grade. They potentially have fewer advanced options than if they went to a neighborhood high school that allowed 10th graders to take AP courses. There has since been a move away from IBX, which makes the pathway less appropriate for some advanced students and more likely they'd be pushed into Running Start as seniors, as there simply won't be enough fellow IBX students to offer a full schedule of post IB coursework.

If Ingraham was not able to sustain or support IBX as a 4 year program, then why would other SPS schools think they'd be able to do the same? Simply offering the IB program a year early - without a plan for senior year - is nothing more than a grade skip. The "continuum of services" for 12th then becomes Running Start. In SPS fashion, equity will most likely be achieved by eliminating services, not expanding them (meaning a slow death of IBX).

my2cents

Anonymous said...

@my2cents- True, but currently even at Ingraham there is no HL Physics, the only HL class is Bio. Also, true that "They potentially have fewer advanced options than if they went to a neighborhood high school that allowed 10th graders to take AP courses." Neighborhood schools and Garfield have HCC taking at least a couple of AP courses (including AP world history & ex AP Spanish etc) in 10th. At Ingraham, they are taking only 1/2 year (1 semester) of world history (& not AP) in 10th. The IB info night does not even present the IBX option to HC, they cover IB.

Ingraham & IB can be great, but HCC parents need to fully understand what they are choosing and how it differs from the historical HCC AP pathway at Garfield and at neighborhood schools. If not choosing IBX, regular IB offers no acceleration for 2 years.
J

Anonymous said...

Above posts are from Save Seattle Schools (SSS) Blog post Feb 7th Two Items of Note- HC capacity at Ingraham and High School Sciences.

Benjamin Leis said...

In the future, please do not bulk copy comments and instead provide a summary and link.

Helen said...

Just curious--is it a bit of a myth that HCC really exists in any Seattle High School. Kids do come into high school 2 years ahead in science and so move forward there, but seems like the rest of classes are open to all students in high school. If this is the case, it should ease people into the idea of putting HCC students into their neighborhood schools in a few years. Even in middle school HCC is only 3 of 6 classes since math is not a part of HCC and is open to all students based on ability.

Helen

Anonymous said...

@J summed it up nicely: Parents/students need to know what they are choosing (but of course you don't know what you don't know, which makes it difficult to ask the right questions). And if you've been with SPS long enough, you know whatever is sold to you one year may not exist a year or two later.

You can argue HCC doesn't exist in any high school because classes are open to all (with the needed pre-reqs), but that seems a bit disingenuous. The last "C" is about having a cohort - a critical mass of students needing similar coursework on the same schedule. Without that critical mass of students, upper level advanced coursework just won't happen. If your neighborhood school is Ballard or Roosevelt, sure, they may have the critical mass of students on a pathway for more AP courses, but all high schools?

Anonymous said...

@Helen- There was a time when Garfield offered AP world History in 9th grade & HCC took that class. Maybe Garfield also exclusively offered HCC a pathway two years ahead in all subjects not just math & science, I don't know, old timers would know more. I also believe years ago there were also gifted ed endorsed teachers at the middle school level and a different curriculum. It really was a different pathway I believe for HCC kids.

Maybe before the change to neighborhood schools, even Ballard and Roosevelt offered less AP classes or at least less of the advanced science & math AP classes. I have no idea though. But they do have a very large solid group of spectrum kids and advanced learner neighborhood kids to drive those AP classes. We saw this coming early on when we moved to neighborhood schools and these kids were in elementary school when the data showed that kids from the Ballard, Magnolia & QA schools were passing MAP state tests at rates in the high 90's. Same for NE elementary schools as well, as I remember looking at the data. Some areas in W Seattle as well. They also de-linked math from HCC, so there are now many kids taking math two years ahead, not just HCC. That is great IMO.

The demographics of Seattle as a whole have also gentrified. I agree with the last post Feb 21 10:55AM. "If your neighborhood school is Ballard or Roosevelt, sure, they may have the critical mass of students on a pathway for more AP courses, but all high schools?" But there is a chart circulating and all the high schools are offering a good amount of AP and IB offerings. They may not all be appropriate for HC, but they would be really solid for most kids.
ML

Anonymous said...

@ Likely Garfield - You mentioned "Roosevelt is one of the BEST high schools in the entire state, it has extremely high test scores overall (principal said approx. 99% of ALL rough riders pass the state tests - that points to a very homogenous group of high flying learners) ".

Roosevelt is indeed a great school. But other schools in Seattle have just as good outcomes! Garfield & Ingraham also have much higher F&R lunch pops, yet their outcomes are excellent. I think some people just look at US news rankings which are skewed. Roosevelt is unique as they "require" all students to take at least one AP class so this (artificially) places them higher on the US news rankings than other schools. Garfield, Ingraham, Ballard and other schools have opted out of being ranked due to the artificial criteria & skewing.

In case anyone is interested here is the link to the state test scores for high schools up to year 2016.
http://reportcard.ospi.k12.wa.us/summary.aspx?groupLevel=District&schoolId=1060&reportLevel=School&year=2016-17&yrs=2016-17

Manny schools either have a "suppressed" math SBAC score for 11th or low maybe indicating large amount of "opt outs."
Here is a quick summary of 4 popular HC pathway schools test scores from 2016.

Roosevelt
4 year Grad rate- 87%
11th grade ELA- 92%
10th grade Bio EOC- 89%

Ballard
4 year Grad rate- 91%
11th grade ELA-90%
10th grade Bio-88.5%

Garfield
4 year Grad rate- 84%
11th grade ELA-84%
10th grade Bio-72%

Ingraham
4 year Grad rate- 84%
11th grade ELA-80%
10th grade Bio-80%


Anonymous said...

Has anyone done the SET program from John Hopkins? Is it worth participating in?

Anonymous said...

My child qualified as a SET scholar - it is a designation given by Johns Hopkins CTY. It's not something you "do" but something you are invited to join by achieving at or above a specific test score on the SAT by a certain age. We took the SAT to qualify for a specific CTY program, so it you are interested in some of the camps/programs they offer, you will want to look into testing specifically for those, and then may be eligible for the designation based on your child's score. There is a lot of information provided to parents if your child qualifies, also magazines/literature for the kids. We have received a lot of invitations for other gifted programming based on this, too. Worth participating in? For us, it was, because we wanted access to the other programs. If you don't think you'd attend a summer camp or take a class offered through CTY, it's a big, long test for a 12 year old!

JAMS parent