Friday, October 5, 2018

October '18 Open Thread

What's on your minds?

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

There are minor modifications coming to the HCS AC after Michael Tolley sent out a verbose email with the jist being that he was "pausing" the advisory committee. Fortunately he doesn't have any control over the independent group. If he did he would have been able to push through one of the four terrible high school pathway plans that they struggled to impose on the Board last year.

I would add this is in direct conflict with the outreach and engagement (that the AC has provided for decades) and is defined in the State filing. Just not surprised though as IMO Michael Tolley has been playing games with engagement ever since he came here.

More to come shortly.

APP Dad

Follower said...

Here's the link:
https://www.seattleschools.org/cms/one.aspx?pageId=15314584

Anonymous said...

What a load of you know what. For all intents and purposes, they are eliminating the HCS-AC. "Pausing" the AC - until after decisions are made - eliminates the HCS-AC's opportunity to advise and provide feedback. Does this stop parents from meeting? What's preventing them arranging meetings independently?

In addition, you are invited to attend Task Force meetings to listen and remain appraised of the work being developed. Remain appraised. Wow. The message is clear - they don't want real feedback.

Anonymous said...

Tolley only paused his control over the AC. He had none. So no big deal.

Anonymous said...

For high school, HCC students have voted with their feet: majority are avoiding Garfield, continuing last year's trend.

GHS messaging has clearly had an effect. And no, it was not avoidance of commute that suddenly made their enrollment divert and dry up: northern students always went to GHS even after the Hamilton split. But then GHS took away World History AP from freshmen and then took away Honors English, first from freshmen, now from sophomores, and implemented advisory. Perhaps there is no confidence in GHS's future master schedule that will be there in two or three years time.


Running Start appears to have the confidence of families as a better alternative. RS enrollment numbers have grown while overall high school is not growing. RS grew 33% annually year before last, and last year had 25% annual growth; or, 66% growth over 2 years from 2015 to 2017.


Total 9-12 enrollment was flat from last year to this (14,288 to 14,211), GHS went from 1,857 last year to 1,696 this year. Ouch.


Roosevelt and Ballard both grew; now at 1,907 and 1,988 respectively.


Running start:
2015/16 791
2016/17 1,052
2017/18 1,313
2018/19 ?



some numbers

Anonymous said...

When are we supposed to hear back about the screening Cogat? When will they notify us if our kid qualifies for the full Cogat? Will they notify us if our kid does NOT qualify? Or do we have to wait for Jan/Feb?

Anonymous said...

screener is followed by full cogat test and achievement testing. All are completed by early next year. Not sure when but you should hear soon if additional testing is needed. Anyone else?

Anonymous said...

@Some Numbers

As a north end family with an HC qualified high school student, I need to add my perspective. Actually commute was a strong reason to stay local, amongst not only my student but most of their friends. Taking two buses and the traffic was not appealing when word got out they could take the same classes/pathway at their neighborhood school. In addition, a few years ago things changed and neighborhood high schools need to serve HC students. The word is getting around.

In addition, neighborhood schools have gotten stronger in recent years not only in academics but offer some of the strongest extracurriculars and programs in the state. Well rounded strong music programs (choir, Band, orchestra) have become as strong or stronger than Garfield. Therefore, Garfield (nor Ingraham) is no longer viewed as a sole pathway.

high school parent

Anonymous said...

We eliminated commute concerns by moving from Laurelhurst into the Garfield zone but recognize few families can afford to do this. Commute is an important and valid concern for students choosing a school but the academics at Garfield are as strong as ever. It's weird how some HCC parents denigrate it, especially those who have never sent a student there, as if it's some sort of competition. We are a family that did choose Garfield, our kids love it, and while we benefit from students exiting the cohort, the Garfield bashing sure is tiresome.

Bulldoggy

Anonymous said...

@ high school parent, some neighborhood schools may have gotten academically more rigorous over the past couple years, but are you saying they offer all the highest level classes that Garfield does?

@ Bulldoggy, are you saying that as more and more students opt out of or are directed away from the pathway you anticipate that all the same high level courses will continue to be offered in sufficient numbers that HC students will still be able to take them?

unclear

Benjamin Leis said...

I'll step in here a bit. As context I agree that high school choices are not a zero sum game. Just because you're happy at X does not mean everyone at Y is suffering from an inferior education.

Likewise, choosing a popular choice in your reference area does not invalidate another family's different decision.


This definitely applies to Garfield where I sometimes feel folks underestimate the size of the Central and South side population (or remember that it is still someone's pathway even if it isn't yours). Seeing it at 1700 kids is a bit of a victory in my book given the actual physical capacity there.

Based on the numbers which I'll have to get updated again for '18 its important to realize that there are a large numbers of kids in the cohort. Enough that offering advanced classes at each site is not unrealistic. (Whether and how this happens is a policy choice each building makes) The survey from last year showed that on paper several high schools not just Garfield but crucially not all are offering a healthy spectrum of advanced classes. Its not uniform though especially for less core options like say AP Physics C.

Anonymous said...

@unclear, yes. One, Garfield has been overcrowded so as it is there is already greater demand for those classes than seats. Two, Garfield remains an HCC option pathway after Lincoln's reopening next year which will help improve access to those classes, for kids in the HCC cohort. Three, the same terrible traffic that impacts students commuting to Garfield impacts everyone, so central Seattle is an ideal location for families who can afford it - typically wealthier and highly educated. Garfield's demographics already reflect a changing population which predicts continued demand for high level academic courses, and HCC students are not the only ones needing access to them.

Exactly, Ben, thank you.

Bulldoggy

Anonymous said...

As I've commented elsewhere, the GHS bashing is *really* tiresome. If the school isn't grossly overcrowded this year, that's a plus, not a minus.

I'm a South ender and I'll be sending student #2 there next year without hesitation. It's a wonderful community.

Bulldogs forever.

Ruthie

Anonymous said...

@Unclear- Yes my student at BHS can take the exact same high level AP classes they would take at Garfield. We mapped it out and know others taking the same pathway no issues. In addition, they have many other strong spectrum as well as HC students at the neighborhood school. It has been a great experience so far and is walkable! Also, don't count me as a parent who is discounting Garfield as I think its a great school, but the point is there are other options. We know nobody who felt the need to travel to Garfield from our neighborhood. It was BHS, IHS or private.
high school parent

Benjamin Leis said...

And just to interject yet again: None of the H.S. sites offer exactly the same set of courses be it AP/IB etc or just specialty classes that are one offs.

The differences are the around the edges and may make no difference to your student.
To pick a relevant example, BHS offered both flavors of AP CS last year, GHS only offered 1. GHS offered AP Physics, BHS did not.

At this point, since since most kids cannot easily access both buildings I think that's moot but if you're choosing a H.S. do look through course catalogs and see if your particular interest is represented or not and plan accordingly. Kids access courses outside the building a fair amount to compensate for some of this.

Ben

Anonymous said...

@Unclear
There are some neighborhood schools are not offering the same AP pathway as Garfield for HC like Nathan Hale.

However many schools are offering a plethora of AP courses. If you compare Garfield to RHS or BHS those two schools offer almost an identical number and type of AP courses. Those schools also have a very large & strong population outside of HCC. There are only very slight differences in AP course choices, but as Benjamin stated your student should compare. This is one reason why so many in the northend have been choosing RHS & BHS over Garfield. RHS & IHS have really great principals. BHS also has a strong principal who really supports HCC kids, a sidenote is he has two HCC qualified kids of his own. He has given HCC kids priority registration (but it has seldom been needed) to ensure they have access to advanced courses in their pathway. My understanding is that not all principals follow this policy.

Also, want to put in a plug for the STEM at BHS. BHS also offers lots of science course choices besides Chem, Bio & Physics, genetics, oceanography, botany etc.

It does vary based upon teacher but Honors Chemistry, Physics, AP Calc, AP BC Calc, and various AP science classes have some exceptionally strong teachers. Extracurricular robotics team club also won the world championship a year or so ago.

RHS is very similar to BHS in academic outcomes. RHS requires students to take an AP course which "artificially" pushes their rank higher than BHS on the US News Report ranking. But if you compare apples to apples in academic outcomes outcomes are nearly identical for those two schools. BHS grad rate is 94%. Neither school is as diverse as IHS or GHS economically or racially and both have significantly less F&R lunch populations.

RHS & BHS also have strong music programs that really rival Garfield in both in awards, festivals chosen to attend etc.

This is not meant in any way to discount Garfield for those who choose it. It is a great school. Do not count me in the group that discounts Garfield. It is just that it is not the only great school & our neighborhood school has the plus of being in our community.

In my own research, along with my student shadowing prior to making a choice etc we feel that the HCC pathway at the high school level is really about marketing! There is no special curriculum at Garfield or special classes for HCC. In addition, there is a community of smart, hardworking kids at the other schools as well and the secret is out.

Another northend parent

Anonymous said...

@Ben Yes agree. @ unclear- Regarding the AP selection, there may be one more or less choices in a subject area. However point is that there will be AP science classes and a pathway for your HCC student at some neighborhood schools. At BHS for example, no AP physics, but for example AP Chem, AP Bio, Astronomy, Physics, Chem, Botany, Oceanography etc. Also, there are super fantastic Spanish teachers at BHS. Garfield offers great Latin courses & teachers, but I hear Spanish is not the best at Garfield. If you have a soon to be high school, check out all the choices and you may also learn where HCC kids are going from your child's school. At HIMS, the counseling data posted in the cafeteria this past year indicated they were split between RHS, BHS, IHS, less to Garfield & private.

Another northend parent

Anonymous said...

Responding to “another northend parent,” I would say Spanish has significantly improved at Garfield in recent years. We have been especially pleased with the advanced levels so far.

And yes, the commute is a bear. But we have generally liked the teachers, and some are truly exceptional.

We also know lots of HCC kids happy at RHS and BHS.

Of course, once Lincoln opens, it all changes.

- Bulldog Parent

Anonymous said...

@ Bulldog Parent

Maybe or Maybe not. Once Lincoln opens it may not all change. The plan I last heard was that the board is going to revisit the pathway idea. There is no certainty at this time that a "north end pathway" will exist past 2019. There is still alot TBD.

Uncertainty

Anonymous said...

Uncertainty
Can you expand on this last plan you have heard? My understanding is that the placement of a north end pathway was finalized in the marathon board meeting last year. This is a dramatic shift. Do you know when this was discussed?
Thank you,
Former Bulldog

Anonymous said...

SPS is not so great with follow through. It would not be the first time SPS changed program design or offerings AFTER students made enrollment decisions. There's also the question of how IHS will use its added capacity (opening 2019, same year as Lincoln). The IBX option is not well supported at this point (does anyone have recent numbers on % of students choosing early entry to IB over traditional timeframe, or % HC choosing IHS?).

Anonymous said...

# Students to Ingraham from [attendance area], 2017-18:
Ingraham - 946
Roosevelt - 151
Ballard - 144
Nathan Hale - 81
(numbers from other high schools less than 10)

The numbers include students Grades 9-12 and do not indicate how many were HC qualified. 2018-19 reports are not yet on the SPS enrollment page.

Anonymous said...

poppycock - pipedream you have no idea what you are talking about. sorry pathways for 19 are set.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous Oct 11th 10:46AM. I said "will exist past 2019". Unless something has changed, the board are to revisit the idea of the single north & single south end pathways. This was a temporary decision, look at the last board meeting notes on the subject. The majority of the board was not in favor of keeping two HCC pathways. However they did not have the data to determine at the time to go with a different plan.
Uncertainty

Anonymous said...

"does anyone have recent numbers on % of students choosing early entry to IB over traditional timeframe"

As of last year and a conversation with the coordinator, 2/3 of HCC were choosing regular IB over IBX.

As far as north end HCC students choosing Ingraham, I heard rumor that more from Eaglestaff chose Ingraham, as it is also a reference school for many students who could not choose the other two schools.

HIMS they appeared to be divided this past year mostly between Ingraham, Ballard & Roosevelt. In the cafeteria of HIMS they posted student names & school assigned for counselor appts. However, it did not differentiate HCC from dual language or spectrum or gen ed etc. There were roughly 110-125 slated for RHS, same number for BHS, and approx 50 for Ingraham, 22 or so for Garfield. Keep in mind that if a Lincoln area student (Wallingford, QA etc) could be moved if they chose RHS or BHS and the area changed, unless they chose Garfield or Ingraham in which they would be grandfathered.

I have no idea about JAMS, but the commute to Garfield is better from NE. I got the impression from a friend (non-scientific) they were more divided between RHS & GHS than choosing Ingraham. I do know the enrollment at Ingraham remained consistent this year and did not grow, despite the lift on the enrollment cap at Ingraham SPS promise to "enroll all HCC in Fall 2018 who chose IBX/IB".

And next year with the opening of Lincoln as a pathway who knows. The reference area of Lincoln (QA, Wallingford etc) will have many HCC qualified kids as the heat maps of where they are concentrated indicated. My guess is other north end students N, NE & NW with other strong established neighborhood school choices may decide on a neighborhood school.

Future uncertain

Anonymous said...

Jan 31st 2018 board meeting link https://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=25995605

1. Amendment 3 which would "maintain the HCC adopted pathways (i.e Lincoln & Garfield) in perpetuity" was withdrawn.

2. Failed to Pass: Adopting Resolution No. 2017/18-10 to establish an equitable vision for advanced coursework in all high schools by replacing highly capable pathways at the high school level with a localized assignment model by 2021-22

3. Passed : Substitute Resolution No. 2017/18-10 to affirm the vision for equitable access to advanced coursework in all high schools and develop the detailed plan for implementation by 2021-22

JKL

Anonymous said...

Thanks, JKL. I was searching the archives for that info!

all types

Anonymous said...

To note, the resolution noted by JKL above was under a "highly capable" heading, although the language in the resolution refers to the generic "advanced learning" term (furthering SPS's love of vagueness that makes intentions and subversion of intentions all that much less obvious). The resolution says:

"Approval of this item would replace Resolution No. 2017/18-10 as introduced on January 17 with a substitute version that affirms the vision for equitable access to advanced coursework, calls for more equitable identification practices for advanced learning and highly capable services, and requests a report that will detail the comprehensive plan for increasing advanced learning in all high schools following a collaborative planning process."

So it's theoretically about "increasing advanced learning in all high schools," which sounds great, right?

However...Assuming this amendment to the substitute resolution also passed (did it?), we also have this:

Amendment 1 to Substitute Resolution No. 2017/18-10: "Approval of this amendment would add language to the substitute resolution that states it is the goal of the Board to assign all students entering high school to their neighborhood high schools by the school year 2021-22."

So, that last bit means they intend to end high school HC pathways within 3 years. That doesn't mean they'll necessarily be able to figure out how to do it, but it also doesn't mean they won't do it even if they can't figure out how to make it work well (Exhibit A: MTSS). They are clear that they want to, clear it's the goal. They've shown no evidence that they can provide a full and equitable slate of advanced classes across all high schools, but that doesn't seem to be a barrier to moving in that direction. We've also seen continued moves away from equitable approaches to HC services across schools (Exhibit B: the recent WMS mess), so we're clearly moving in the wrong.

If they really intend to follow up with this goal for 2021, they'd better start planning for and making progress in this area soon, don't you think?

all types

Anonymous said...

But they are making progress, if progress means dispersing the HC HS cohort. Garfield is no longer an all city draw, Ingraham is strongly discouraging the IBX option (and has given up any pretense of IBX as a 4 year program), and more HC students are choosing RHS and BHS over IHS. Then there's Running Start. How's it going in West Seattle?

Anonymous said...

And then there is West Seattle the third pathway. Harris says it won't open unless it is ready. I trust her.

Again the disparity though. WMS no world language until 8th for now. HIMS three years. REMS two years.

HS with adequate offering for HC students in 2019 in the north: iBX, LHS, RHS and BHS HS with adequate offering for HC students in 2019 in the South: WSH and GHS.

The Board was clear on 2019. 2021, seriously all bets are off except the rigor will be inequitably dispensed to "white" north of ship canal (and QA/Mag).

Benjamin Leis said...

This is a reminder to please either use an authenticated ID or a moniker/handle when commenting.



Anonymous said...

@Anon October 11, 2018 at 4:19 PM,

I think you mean "unequally" dispensed. Having more high schools with adequate offerings for HC students in the north is not necessarily inequitable, if there are more students who want and are ready for such classes. HCC qualification numbers are not equally distributed geographically, so it is not surprising that high schools with "adequate offering for HC students" are also not equally distributed geographically. That's no excuse for not providing sufficient rigor for all students (via a local school or a pathway school for those who need it), but it seems you were specifically talking about HC students.

FYI, HIMS doesn't offer 3 years of world language because it's an HCC pathway, but rather because it's the LI pathway school. There just happens to be overlap between the two pathways, as well as overlap in the students (with many LI students also HCC-qualified).

Disparities abound in this district, whether HC or not. We need some guidelines as to what needs to be provided at each school (e.g., at least 2 years world language in middle school, certain classes if an HCC pathway, etc.)

Also, the ship canal is not a white/non-white divide.

all types

Anonymous said...

I stand by inequitable and white especially since WMS and GHS have diminished offerings because administrators stated racial inequity... That isn't seen at REMS, HIMS and iBX.

You sound kinda naive or north of the ship canal.

Sorry. Shit is happening to HCC based on racial optics. Devin Bruckner's repeated testimony magnifying false comparisons facilitated this and of course we all know her website claimed a District grant. Michael Tolley sign off on that grant?

Too true

Anonymous said...

@Too True I think you meant to state Ingraham, not IBX in your example. Actually Ingraham is very racially and economically diverse as well. They offer a program (like Rainier Beach), not a collection of AP advanced courses. If you cut courses, there is no more program. The program is heavily reliant on parental funding. However, they did eliminate or not offer 4th year courses they promised to IBX students. Another reason many are doing regular IB. In addition, the entire school is focused on the IB program and heavily invested. I got the impression that although they have been offering the program for over 20 years, they got a huge boost in popularity (& probably in funding) from drawing HCC students. I also get the sense the principal really wants to keep those kids at the school. Although they are now not in any unique program at all & are completely mainstreamed in their classes with non-HCC kids at the school. The school is as integrated as students choose to be.
PG

Anonymous said...

@ all types

Amendment 1 did not pass. However the substitute did pass. So they have intentions to plan increasing offerings (vague) but do not have a deadline to end pathways. See Summary & who voted for what below.

Director Mack move to substitute Resolution No. 2017/18-10. Director Pinkham
seconded.
Director DeWolf moved to approve Amendment 1 to substitute Resolution No. 2017/18-
10. Director Geary seconded.
Directors discussed the substitute resolution and the proposed amendment to the
substitute. Directors talked about establishing a goal of equity and access to advance
coursework for all students and how to implement a plan for the district over the coming
years. Directors spoke about the history of this topic regarding shifting high school
boundaries to balance capacity. Superintendent Nyland spoke about a decision that would
be necessary to align with the open enrollment schedule. Directors provided their
perspectives about the various impacts to families and students of these proposed
motions, and whether or not the Board should adopt a goal of localizing highly capable
services in all high schools.
The motion to amend the substitute resolution did not pass with a vote of 2-5 (Directors
DeWolf and Geary voted yes; Directors Burke, Mack, Patu, Pinkham, and Harris voted
no).
The motion to substitute Resolution No. 2017/18-10 passed with a vote of 4-2-1
(Directors Burke, Mack, Pinkham, and Harris voted yes; Directors DeWolf and Geary
voted no; Director Patu abstained).
The motion to adopt the resolution as substituted passed with a vote of 6-1 (Directors
Burke, Geary, Mack, Patu, Pinkham, and Harris voted yes; Director DeWolf voted no).

JKL

The Transit Traveller said...

Unsure what you mean by "no confidence in GHS's future master schedule that will be there in two or three years time." Though Garfield has eliminated regular English for ninth and tenth graders, this was a relatively small change. Basically it went from a 2:11 ratio to a 0:13 ratio of regular to honors sections. I was in the first HFA classes, and I can confirm that we used exactly the same curriculum and readings as the previous years. Also,Garfield has in fact expanded its AP offerings this year. GHS now offers 2 sections of AP calc BC and 3 sections of AP Spanish, both of which used to be one-section classes. No reductions have been made to other AP course offerings. A more likely reason for people avoiding Garfield is uncertainty about whether they will be forced to move to Lincoln in sophomore year.

-HC Garfield student

The Transit Traveller said...

Also, Roosevelt and Ballard don't have separate honors English 9 classes either.

Anonymous said...

Thank you transit traveller. For parents who may be unaware, there have been movements at multiple schools toward versions of combining core & honors students into single LA classes.

There are various "versions" of how each school is implementing doing it and how it is done differs with various subjects as well.

Speaking strictly about 9th grade LA only, Roosevelt offers honors credit if students complete extra assignments. Garfield 9th LA is similar to the LA model at BHS. Ballard moved from honors separated from core classes to an HFA model for 9th LA starting this year. They intentionally balanced classes 50/50 with students seeking honors with those initially seeking core. About 1/3-1/2 of my student's class are HCC students, recognized from middle school HCC program. Students have 3 weeks to request core credit instead and I think they may have kept one core section only.

FC

Anonymous said...

To be clear, as far as I am aware Roosevelt does not have separate "honors" LA classes. All students are together in the same non honors class & students do extra assignments to receive "honors" credit.

At GHS & BHS the class is honors for all teaching all to a higher standard. At BHS it is new this year, they are allowing students to opt out (if first 3 weeks) to a single core section. At BHS they intentionally balanced the LA honors classes, 50% who were initially seeking honors with 50% initially enrolled for core. There are some subjects that offer honors or core sections at BHS. Other classes that are similar to RHS combining together in once class, additional assignments, harder tests & grading scale etc.

I would guess that at a school with a large academic range/divide between HCC students and others (not RHS nor BHS) it would be much more challenging. RHS & BHS are schools are not as diverse economically and also have large numbers of spectrum qualified students.

Pat

Anonymous said...

Re: GHS, I still don't understand how someone who would have had trouble with the basic, non-honors versions of SS and LA would handle being forced into an HFA class that is, supposedly, still consistent with the old honors version of the classes? Do they get extra support, or are the just expected to get a worse grade since it's an HFA class? Or were the honors classes really not all that advanced to begin with, so the change isn't that dramatic?

unclear

Anonymous said...

@Unclear I don't have a student at Garfield. However, I believe the schools that implemented this change are stating they are providing extra support to students who need it. They also received professional development training through UW over the summer. That was stated at BHS in a document explaining the move to HFA for LA. Not sure how the extra support is defined. In addition, in a class with large differences in where students are at academically, I do believe it would be challenging. In addition, at BHS they allow students 3 weeks to "opt out" of honors for the core section. I am not certain about GHS.

Pat

Anonymous said...

P.S Also at BHS the change was only for LA. SS still has core or honors sections. The 9th SS honors class is brutally challenging no matter the teacher, even for HCC students. They are very focused in preparing students well for AP world history in 10th which also has a reputation as a challenging class.

Pat

SPS Mom said...

Best practices for identifying gifted English language learners: https://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=25920011&item=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.edweek.org%2Fv1%2Fblog%2F36%2Findex.html%3Fuuid%3D77619

Anonymous said...

From Save Seattle Schools blog, a call for HC community to show up at Roosevelt HS TODAY Monday Oct. 15th as Juneau has omitted HC from her districtwide "listening tour":

"Her [Juneau's] latest journal says she's coming to the end of her Listening Tour. You can read the lengthy list of groups she has met with, both by district program designation and ethnic/racial background, and note one thing; not one with parents of students in Advanced Learning.

As I tweeted to her, if that remains the case, it will speak volumes about what the JSCEE administration thinks of the program and the children in it. There is one more Town Hall meeting and I would tell AL parents that they might considering going to that and taking it over a la the Nova students at the North Seattle CC meeting."

Mon., Oct. 15, 7 - 8:30 p.m.
NE Regional Town Hall
Co-hosted with Roosevelt PTA
Location: Roosevelt High School
1410 NE 66th St., Seattle, WA 98115

Benjamin Leis said...

I went and retrieved some data from Ingraham. This year as I suspected is a high water mark for HCC enrollment in IB there. At some point I'll try to get more widespread data but for those commenting I think should provide some context. I suspect given the dynamics of the north end this trend line will persist post the opening of Lincoln. (Of course we'll follow this next year to see what really happens)

9th -127
10th- 84
11th- 111
12th- 81

Ben

Anonymous said...

@ Ben, I agree. Those Ingraham HCC students had the option of Garfield but chose Ingraham instead. Given the worry that Lincoln is not setting itself up to be a strong HC site, I have a hard time believing that many of those IHS HC students would have chosen Lincoln if that had been their default instead of Garfield. I think many will continue to opt for the HC welcoming environment of IHS until we know more about how Lincoln plays out.

proof pudding

Anonymous said...

I'd be careful about looking at IHS in isolation. What is the size of the HS cohort, city wide, for each of those years, and what percent are choosing what HS from each neighborhood? HCC numbers at RHS and BHS need to be added to the mix. SPS has also been playing with caps for option enrollment at Ingraham. The 11th grade cohort was the first to have an imposed cap, which was then lifted when parents brought conflicting policy wording to the attention of SPS. The following year had a cap of what looks to be 90, and this year's 9th grade looks to be around 120 (higher in anticipation of the addition opening next year - maybe there was no cap?). Also keep in mind that when this year's 11th graders chose schools, assignment plans for HS were still up in the air (it was unknown if they'd split seniors from BHS and RHS, or even GHS) and IBX still existed (at least when they were selling it to 8th graders). Programmatic changes have since been made at both GHS and IHS (Honors for All, elimination of 12th grade post-IB LA/SS courses for IBX seniors, etc.).

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous Oct 15th 9:48PM - This past year the district anticipated that all who chose Ingraham could be accommodated. They lifted the cap.

In addition, there are a majority who enrolled at Ingraham and could choose only between IGH & GHS. They did not have the options of BHS or RHS. In addition, any students in the new "change zones" which would pull them to Lincoln in 2019, likely did not choose BHS or RHS.
That being said, there are also seem to be strong numbers (at least anecdotically) of 9th grade HCC kids enrolled at BHS & RHS this year. However, even prior to this year I remember a formal stat of 50% HCC high school students who did not enroll in Garfield or Ingraham.

Garfield's enrollment dropped dranatically this year to approx 1700 or so. If all HCC fed into Garfield it was projected to be 2300 this year! My guess is the north end students almost entirely chose north end options, but this has been a trend for past couple of years.

My guess is the north end 9th HCC will be split next few years between RHS, BHS, IHS & Lincoln. When Lincoln gets up & running as a strong school it may draw more HCC students. However, it may not if the other schools offer the same academics, strong extracurricular and other programming, are more walkable & also have loads of strong (spectrum) students to fill and demand same classes.


Big picture

Anonymous said...

Here to counter more lies and misrepresentation, Garfield's total student enrollment over past years:

Sep 2012 - 1638
Sep 2013 - 1622
Sep 2014 - 1620
Sep 2015 - 1708
Sep 2016 - 1737
Sep 2017 - 1825
Sep 2018 - 1794

So, hardly a dramatic drop in enrollment this year but rather a small step returning to its right size capacity.

Bulldoggy

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous October 11, 2018 at 10:26 AM who said...
# Students to Ingraham from [attendance area], 2017-18:
Ingraham - 946
Roosevelt - 151
Ballard - 144
Nathan Hale - 81
(numbers from other high schools less than 10)
=The numbers include students Grades 9-12 and do not indicate how many were HC qualified. 2018-19 reports are not yet on the SPS enrollment page.

So for example, combined with Ben's statistics that would mean Ingraham is enrolling a much larger majority of kids from various reference areas who are not HCC.


KL

Anonymous said...

@ Bulldoggy - Thanks for that information. Not a drop in enrollment per se, but rather way off the projections of 2300 for Fall 2019 this year, if all HCC students projected would have attended Garfield. Rather Garfield has held steady enrollment while other schools like RHS & BHS have grown past few years. IHS also has relatively the same enrollment as last year.

KL

Benjamin Leis said...

Another general moderator comment: please avoid unneeded inflammatory posts i.e. "lies and misrepresentation". Folks comment sometime on their anecdotal experiences and that doesn't always align with the data but let's assume the best intentions of each other.

Anonymous said...

Juneau had a listening tour at RHS last night and some HCC parents attended and asked her questions. I did not attend. The reports by HCC parents on the HCC Seattle Middle Facebook page today are not great. It sounds like she has some misinformation (HCC too big etc) perhaps influenced by administration. Also, for those interested apparently she mentioned the 24 high school graduation credit requirement is "on pause".

HS mom

Anonymous said...

Ingraham IBX was started to relieve GHS. It worked! But as larger and larger cohorts have moved up to HS, significantly more students are opting for their neighborhood school, especially at RHS and BHS. If memory serves me, there was a time in the not too distant past that greater than 90% of APP students followed the pathway to GHS. Since then, there have been changes in assignments plans, MS and HS curriculum, etc.

Total enrollment at GHS or IHS or wherever only tells part of the story. What is the total number of HC identified students in HS, per grade, and what % of the HS cohort goes where? This info used to be tabulated by either enrollment or AL and shared on the website or at HCS-AC meetings.

Not sure what is meant by "lies and misrepresentation" as anecdotally there has been a shift in enrollment patterns for HS HCC. If the numbers of students choosing IHS and GHS have held steady, but the cohorts are getting larger, well, where are those students going??

Anonymous said...

HCC enrollment by grade, district wide, from the 2017-18 Annual Enrollment Report (for comparison, 2012 numbers):

9th - 292 (139)
10th - 255 (138)
11th - 235 (117)
12th - 201 (113)
Total - 983 (507)

Anonymous said...

Juneau mentioned at the RHS listening tour last night that the 24 high school graduation credit requirement is "on pause"???

What??? This is not an SPS requirement. This is a statewide requirement, which went into effect for the class of 2019. Districts could apply for 1 or 2 year waivers to figure out how to implement the requirement at the local level, so SPS went with the 2-yr waiver so they could "plan." The 2-yr waiver means the first graduating class affected is the class of 2021--those who started high school last year, with no 24-credit solution in place. Not only no plan in place, but with SPS apparently no closer to a solution. So the 2-yr official waiver became a 3-yr delay. Now those students are sophomores, and still there's no plan in place. Effectively, we're into year 4 of the "planning"...and now the planning is "on pause"?

This is getting ridiculous. No, actually, it's already gotten beyond ridiculous. They need to get their priorities straight. They need to do their job. Oh, and guess who's supposed to be in charge of this, who's name is on the waiver request? You guessed it, Michael Tolley.

If SPS really cares about equity, they'll figure out this 24-credit thing ASAP. Guess who will be most hurt by SPS's failure--FAILURE--to take care of this? Not kids who pass their classes, and/or who can take community college classes to fill in gaps in their schedules. Nope. It'll hurt the kids who fail a class, the kids who have jobs or family responsibilities that prevent them from taking community college classes, the kids who don't have a computer at home for an online class, etc. If SPS thinks this is all no big deal and everyone will be able to get their 24 credits, then no big deal--just END the theoretical planning and say "hey, we don't need to plan, it'll all work out because kids have these options..." But the fact that it's taking 4 (or more) years suggests it's NOT all that easy...which means it's even that much more important that they come up with a freakin' plan. ASAP. Seriously.

Sometimes I really can't believe we pay these guys.

Core24

Anonymous said...

2017-18 district HCC enrollment (Gr 1-12) by HS attendance area, as % of total:

BHS 23%
FHS 9%
GHS 14%
IHS 7%
NHHS 8%
RBHS 3%
RHS 25%
CSHS 3%
WSHS 8%

Last year, nearly half of district HCC enrolled students lived in the BHS/RHS attendance areas.

Anonymous said...

Based on reports from the listening tour, it sounds as though Juneau needs to learn a good deal more about HCC/HCS, and not just from those whispering in her ear. Maybe she could attend a HCS-AC meeting...oh wait....

Anonymous said...

I still don't understand why kids who fail a class cannot attend a zero period or after school, at least in some schools where few kids fail to graduate. That is how failed classes are made up elsewhere. I am sure there is a reason but would like to hear why. Why the move to shake up the entire district and all of our student schedules so that "kids who may fail can make up classes during the day"? This makes no sense to me. The district is too big and diverse to have a one size fits all solution.

The answer to 24 credits was proposed to be a 7 or more likely 8 period day. I still don't get why the entire district and every single school, including those with 94% graduation rates in 2017 like BHS, or RHS with a 88% grad rate, need to be hugely impacted with a change to 8 periods.

Last I heard there were many drawbacks to this change. Example, already AP classes are 3 weeks behind due to East Coast school calendar schedules & kids need to start classes over the summer prior. The 8 periods also did not align well with running start and there were other issues. 7 periods was another idea that was better, but also had issues.

TH

Anonymous said...

Who is going to pay teachers for teaching an extra hour every day? The state won’t fund that.

Anonymous said...

The 7-period day option is costly, too—more teacher training re: how to squeeze Full curricula in shorter classes, more periods per kid (meaning more texts/ supplies), more teachers ( since they’d need two free periods instead of one), etc. In the end, a few zero/summer classes would likely be cheaper. As a bonus—and only I’m SPS do we consider this a “bonus”—it wouldn’t screw everything else up for the majority of students for whom things are currently working ok.

Core24

Anonymous said...

What about after school or before school online classes for credit retrieval? Any students who don't have access to computers at home can use school computers. There has to be something better than the 8 periods that was proposed that had alot of drawbacks listed. Our district is not doing what other districts in our area are doing to meet this requirement either.
TH

Anonymous said...

Good news! The high schools make parents provide supplies, the district rarely buys textbooks and while teachers need training, that doesn’t mean they’ll get it.

I think zero period (or after school) classes are the answer and levy funds will have to be used to pay for them. That’ll mean redirecting funds from something else. Another idea that never comes up is just assuming that some students will take more than four years to graduate. The state will pay for their basic education through the year they turn 21.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have any up to date information or know if zero period or after school classes are even on the table at this point? Last I heard the plan was to move forward with the 8 period schedule starting in 2019 which was the plan the last superintendent favored. However I think RHS and maybe an additional school was opting out to 7 periods.
TH

Susan said...

There is another thread about this on Melissa Westbrook's blog, https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=28765366&postID=6034937523617035172

I was also surprised to hear that Olympia has been sending funds to all districts to cover the 24 credit change for a number of years, and *other* districts have been able to implement. While I understand we have a larger and more complex district, it's yet another disappointment since we've been hearing about this for, what, 4 years?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if this will have an impacts on college applications.

I just realized that if all other districts have implemented Core 24, except Seattle, how is that going to work for the UW? Does this mean that other districts will have much more competitive applicants?

This just seems so messy.

- kr

Anonymous said...

@kr, interesting question. My gut says no, because colleges don't evaluate everyone according to a set program. If that were the case, students of public or private schools that have 8 periods would do better than those with 7, who would do better than those with 5, etc. On the other hand, having more periods DOES allow people to take an extra elective or take 4 years of all the core classes plus band and a language, while still getting in their core CTE, health, and other requirements. On the other hand (yes, a third hand), having fewer class options in SPS may make Running Start more appealing to SPS students--especially if they can't get the classes they want at their school--and I suspect that students who have demonstrated they can do well in college level classes look good in the admissions process. Whatever the case, I think making the most of the situation you're in is the key. IMHO.

May B. Wrong

Anonymous said...



Does anyone know why they play loud music in the JAMS cafeteria? I'm sure the cafeteria is already loud enough with kids talking so I don't understand why they have to play any music at all. Is this an issue for other parents/kids and is there something we can do about it? Can the schools provide noise canceling headsets? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

-nh

Anonymous said...

Usually best to contact school directly with such specific concerns. Maybe they don't realize it is an issue for some students. Reminds me of a middle school class where music was played during work time - it was NOT a conducive work environment for our child.

Anonymous said...

My child doesn't think the music is loud, and can't hear it that well, so I wonder if it matters where you sit in the lunch room? But, she also says that kids have the option to ask the administrator to turn it down and/or to suggest music to play. Sounds like there is a staff member controlling the music so I'd have your child talk to that person directly, usually Nerissa Halberg or Principal Montgomery. I hope they would respond appropriately to a student who asks.